Adding more sulphite
 

I have some particularly promising white wine(Schonburger)which tastes
beautiful now.The grapes were harvested in October 2007,racked in
November and 30ppm sulphite added.It is now clear in a 1 gallon
glass demijohn and I wish to make sure that it lasts into the
summer.Will adding some more sulphite (another 30ppm) protect it,and
should I put it somewher cool to keep it in best condition.I live in
England (we do make good wine here!)and the summer temperatures rarely
exceed 80F.Should I also keep it out of the light.I know that this is
a small quantity,but I do wish to develop good practise.
Michael

Adding more sulphite
 

On Mar 1, 5:25 am, michael > wrote:
> I have some particularly promising white wine(Schonburger)which tastes
> beautiful now.The grapes were harvested in October 2007,racked in
> November and 30ppm sulphite added.It is now clear in a 1 gallon
> glass demijohn and I wish to make sure that it lasts into the
> summer.Will adding some more sulphite (another 30ppm) protect it,and
> should I put it somewher cool to keep it in best condition.I live in
> England (we do make good wine here!)and the summer temperatures rarely
> exceed 80F.Should I also keep it out of the light.I know that this is
> a small quantity,but I do wish to develop good practise.
> Michael

Michael,
Since you only want it to last another half a year you have some
flexibility. The effectiveness of sulfite is dependent on the amount
of acid in the wine, if you don't have access to a calibrated pH meter
it's hard to say whether you need any more or not. The real key is
keeping oxygen away from your wine. 30 ppm is more than enough if the
pH is 3.2, not enough if the pH is 3.4. A local schools science lab
may be willing to test it for you.

If the wine is dry and a bit tart, you may be fine. Bottling it and
keeping it cool will help protect it. If the pH is low and you end up
with 60 ppm SO2 in it you may taste it so measurement of both the
sulfite level and more importantly the pH would be preferable.

Joe

Adding more sulphite
 

On 2 Mar, 18:53, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Mar 1, 5:25 am, michael > wrote:
>
> > I have some particularly promising white wine(Schonburger)which tastes
> > beautiful now.The grapes were harvested in October 2007,racked in
> > November and 30ppm sulphite added.It is now clear * in a 1 gallon
> > glass demijohn and I wish to make sure that it lasts into the
> > summer.Will adding some more sulphite (another 30ppm) protect it,and
> > should I put it somewher cool to keep it in best condition.I live in
> > England (we do make good wine here!)and the summer temperatures rarely
> > exceed 80F.Should I also keep it out of the light.I know that this is
> > a small quantity,but I do wish to develop good practise.
> > Michael
>
> Michael,
> Since you only want it to last another half a year you have some
> flexibility. *The effectiveness of sulfite is dependent on the amount
> of acid in the wine, if you don't have access to a calibrated pH meter
> it's hard to say whether you need any more or not. *The real key is
> keeping oxygen away from your wine. *30 ppm is more than enough if the
> pH is 3.2, not enough if the pH is 3.4. *A local schools science lab
> may be willing to test it for you.
>
> If the wine is dry and a bit tart, you may be fine. *Bottling it and
> keeping it cool will help protect it. *If the pH is low and you end up
> with 60 ppm SO2 in it you may taste it so measurement of *both the
> sulfite level and more importantly the pH would be preferable.
>
> Joe

Thanks,Joe.I tend to measure the pH of my wines using pH strips,which
tend to be only accurate to +-0.2 or so,but they are a good guide.As
you know from our previous exchanges,I have in the past not used
sulphite at all and have lost a few gallons,including this variety
Schonburger.I did not put any sulphite in during the initial press
this year,but probably about 50ppm on first racking.So I will measure
the pH and add a little more now as you are suggesting.In the future
if I wish to keep the wine even longer,say a couple of years or so,do
I have to add more sulphite than you are suggesting-would it be better
then to add much more sulphite now or add it in smaller doses every 6
months.I suppose commercial winemakers have to add a lot of sulphite
on bottling as they do not know the date of consumption.

The other point you raise is that it would help to bottle the wine
(and keep it cool) to make it safe.I do not really understand why wine
bottled is safer than wine in a glass 1 gallon container,unless it is
the problem with inadequate closure.At the moment,the glass container
has a glass airlock (incidentally,we cannot obtain glass airlocks in
England anymore-only plastic which of course are porous to air.Is it
possible to obtain them still in the U.S.?) and I am leaving it like
that for a couple more months in case of some more fermentation;then I
will tightly bung the glass container with sufficient headroom to
allow for expansion as the weather warms up,using a rubber bung.With
bottles is it just that a cork or modern plastic enclosure is a much
more secure bung-rubber bungs can be forced out occasionally?

Adding more sulphite
 

>In the future
> if I wish to keep the wine even longer,say a couple of years or so,do
> I have to add more sulphite than you are suggesting-would it be better
> then to add much more sulphite now or add it in smaller doses every 6
> months.I suppose commercial winemakers have to add a lot of sulphite
> on bottling as they do not know the date of consumption.

No, the guidlines for sulfite addition are not dependant on wine age;
if you follow the standard charts based on pH you will be fine as long
as you have a good closure. +/- 0.2 pH is not quite accurate enough;
I would suggest you see if you can find a way to get to at least 0.1pH
if possible or error with the uncertainty added; ie if you measure 3.4
pH assume it could be 3.6 pH and add the amount of sulfite needed for
3.6 pH.
>
> The other point you raise is that it would help to bottle the wine
> (and keep it cool) to make it safe.I do not really understand why wine
> bottled is safer than wine in a glass 1 gallon container,unless it is
> the problem with inadequate closure.

That is what I meant, apolgies. You need a good closure and need to
minimize contact with air (oxygen really).

At the moment,the glass container
> has a glass airlock (incidentally,we cannot obtain glass airlocks in
> England anymore-only plastic which of course are porous to air.Is it
> possible to obtain them still in the U.S.?) and I am leaving it like
> that for a couple more months in case of some more fermentation;then I
> will tightly bung the glass container with sufficient headroom to
> allow for expansion as the weather warms up,using a rubber bung.

I haven't seen glass airlocks either, plastic is fine as long as you
trim off the excess sprue. Sometimes the mold lines are pretty
prominent, just shave them off and you will be fine. I have had wines
under plastic airlock for over 2 years with no issue.

Adding more sulphite
 

On 5 Mar, 22:49, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >In the future
> > if I wish to keep the wine even longer,say a couple of years or so,do
> > I have to add more sulphite than you are suggesting-would it be better
> > then to add much more sulphite now or add it in smaller doses every 6
> > months.I suppose commercial winemakers have to add a lot of sulphite
> > on bottling as they do not know the date of consumption.
>
> No, the guidlines for sulfite addition are not dependant on wine age;
> if you follow the standard charts based on pH you will be fine as long
> as you have a good closure. *+/- 0.2 pH is not quite accurate enough;
> I would suggest you see if you can find a way to get to at least 0.1pH
> if possible or error with the uncertainty added; ie if you measure 3.4
> pH assume it could be 3.6 pH and add the amount of sulfite needed for
> 3.6 pH.
>
>
>
> > The other point you raise is that it would help to bottle the wine
> > (and keep it cool) to make it safe.I do not really understand why wine
> > bottled is safer than wine in a glass 1 gallon container,unless it is
> > the problem with inadequate closure.
>
> That is what I meant, apolgies. *You need a good closure and need to
> minimize contact with air (oxygen really).
>
> At the moment,the glass container
>
> > has a glass airlock (incidentally,we cannot obtain glass airlocks in
> > England anymore-only plastic which of course are porous to air.Is it
> > possible to obtain them still in the U.S.?) and I am leaving it like
> > that for a couple more months in case of some more fermentation;then I
> > will tightly bung the glass container with sufficient headroom to
> > allow for expansion as the weather warms up,using a rubber bung.
>
> I haven't seen glass airlocks either, plastic is fine as long as you
> trim off the excess sprue. *Sometimes the mold lines are pretty
> prominent, just shave them off and you will be fine. *I have had wines
> under plastic airlock for over 2 years with no issue.

Thanks again Joe.I really appreciate your help.Your idea of erring on
the high pH side is a good one.I do not think that I will have a
problem with too much sulphite,as I seem to be able to ferment well
naturally without adding sulphite initially to the must.
One final point.I am aware that it is good practise to keep wine cool-
otherwise wine would not be traditionally stored in cellars.Also
cellars will have a much more uniform temperature than other storage
areas.My problem is that I do not have any storage space other than in
my garage-not used to keep the car anymore,but full of gardening,wine
and cidermaking equipment.I have thought of buying a cooler,but they
are expensive,unsightly and apparently are not very satisfactory.I am
going to rig up some curtaining to draw across the shelves,since the
sunlight can shine in through the window directly on to the glass
demijohns.However,I do not have any better ideas to keep temperature
fluctuation low.At this time of the year the temperature fluctuates
between 40F and 50F ( If we have a very cold snap,then I tend to put a
heater on to bring the temperature up a little),but later in June-
August,the temperature fluctuates between 60F and 80F.Does this really
matter if one is trying to make good wine?I try to minimise the
possibility of bungs coming out in hot weather,but apart from that why
does my kind of temperature fluctuation harm the maturing wine?
Best regards
michael

Adding more sulphite
 

"michael" > wrote in message
...
>I have some particularly promising white wine(Schonburger)which tastes
> beautiful now.The grapes were harvested in October 2007,racked in
> November and 30ppm sulphite added.It is now clear in a 1 gallon
> glass demijohn and I wish to make sure that it lasts into the
> summer.Will adding some more sulphite (another 30ppm) protect it,and
> should I put it somewher cool to keep it in best condition.I live in
> England (we do make good wine here!)and the summer temperatures rarely
> exceed 80F.Should I also keep it out of the light.I know that this is
> a small quantity,but I do wish to develop good practise.
> Michael

Conventional wisdom is that about half of the first dose becomes
"bound" (used up). But - having once reacted with all of the available
"sites", subsequent additions will remain as all free SO2.

Campden tablets are based on the assumption that 50ppm free SO2
will provide "adequate but not excessive" sulfite in any wine that has
a pH in the "typical" range of 3.2 to 3.6.

Thus, if I were unable to test my wine, I would assume that I only
had about 15ppm free remaining after the first dose and that I should
add about 30ppm to get it back up_near_that 50 ppm free (without
exceeding that amount.) All of this of course based on the
assumption that the wine has a typical pH.

Joe is right. It is always better if you can test things to better control
outcomes, but in a pinch you can use the above procedure. HTH

Frederick

Adding more sulphite
 

>
> Thus, if I were unable to test my wine, I would assume that I only
> had about 15ppm free remaining after the first dose and that I should
> add about 30ppm to get it back up_near_that 50 ppm free (without
> exceeding that amount.) All of this of course based on the
> assumption that the wine has a typical pH.
>

I like that advice, it's a good guide for those who don't feel the
need to go out and get a lot of test equipment. Wine makes itself;
the testing prevents drastic mistakes but can make some feel
winemaking is just too technical. My background is testing so it's a
good thing I'm married and have kids, otherwise I would have a gas
chromatograph... :)

As to storing in the garage, I don't think those high temperatures
will be good for the wine. If you could find a closet or space under
a bed you might be better off. The higher the storage temperature the
faster the wine matures. That can be good or bad. If you could find
a way to keep it from getting above 75 F I think you might be better
off. My wine cellar swings from high 40s to low 70's over the course
of a year and as far as i am concerned that is just fine. I have some
wines in there from 1998 still. For the most part mine is stored
between 55 and 65 F.

Adding more sulphite
 

"michael" > wrote in message
...

One final point.I am aware that it is good practise to keep wine cool-
otherwise wine would not be traditionally stored in cellars.Also
cellars will have a much more uniform temperature than other storage
areas.My problem is that I do not have any storage space other than in
my garage-not used to keep the car anymore,but full of gardening,wine
and cidermaking equipment.I have thought of buying a cooler,but they
are expensive,unsightly and apparently are not very satisfactory.I am
going to rig up some curtaining to draw across the shelves,since the
sunlight can shine in through the window directly on to the glass
demijohns.However,I do not have any better ideas to keep temperature
fluctuation low.At this time of the year the temperature fluctuates
between 40F and 50F ( If we have a very cold snap,then I tend to put a
heater on to bring the temperature up a little),but later in June-
August,the temperature fluctuates between 60F and 80F.Does this really
matter if one is trying to make good wine?I try to minimise the
possibility of bungs coming out in hot weather,but apart from that why
does my kind of temperature fluctuation harm the maturing wine?
Best regards

michael

Jack Keller did a blog entry on how temperature effects the speed
of the chemical reactions involved in the "ageing" process. IIRC
it went something like this. Using a base line "cellar" temp of 55f,
at "room temp" of ~72f the reactions occured about 8 times faster.
And, at 90f they occured about 56 times faster. Unfortunately,
this can't be used to speed up the ageing process because some
of the UNdesireable reactions that can happen at the higher temps
would happen so slowly at cellar temp as to effectively never
happen at all. Bottom line: Cooler is better. Memory ain't what
it used to be. Those interested might want to look up that blog
entry and read it for themselves.

If you are stuck with using the garage, I might suggest putting white
shades or drapes on the windows themselves to prevent the sun
getting into the garage and heating things up. At least it shouldn't
get much hotter that the outside air temp that way. HTH

Frederick

Adding more sulphite
 

On Mar 13, 4:01*am, "frederick ploegman" >
wrote:
> "michael" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> One final point.I am aware that it is good practise to keep wine cool-
> otherwise wine would not be traditionally stored in cellars.Also
> cellars will have a much more uniform temperature than other storage
> areas.My problem is that I do not have any storage space other than in
> my garage-not used to keep the car anymore,but full of gardening,wine
> and cidermaking equipment.I have thought of buying a cooler,but they
> are expensive,unsightly and apparently are not very satisfactory.I am
> going to rig up some curtaining to draw across the shelves,since the
> sunlight can shine in through the window directly on to the glass
> demijohns.However,I do not have any better ideas to keep temperature
> fluctuation low.At this time of the year the temperature fluctuates
> between 40F and 50F ( If we have a very cold snap,then I tend to put a
> heater on to bring the temperature up a little),but later in June-
> August,the temperature fluctuates between 60F and 80F.Does this really
> matter if one is trying to make good wine?I try to minimise the
> possibility of bungs coming out in hot weather,but apart from that why
> does my kind of temperature fluctuation harm the maturing wine?
> Best regards
>
> michael
>
> Jack Keller did a blog entry on how temperature effects the speed
> of the chemical reactions involved in the "ageing" process. *IIRC
> it went something like this. *Using a base line "cellar" temp of 55f,
> at "room temp" of ~72f the reactions occured about 8 times faster.
> And, at 90f they occured about 56 times faster. *Unfortunately,
> this can't be used to speed up the ageing process because some
> of the UNdesireable reactions that can happen at the higher temps
> would happen so slowly at cellar temp as to effectively never
> happen at all. *Bottom line: Cooler is better. *Memory ain't what
> it used to be. *Those interested might want to look up that blog
> entry and read it for themselves.
>
> If you are stuck with using the garage, I might suggest putting white
> shades or drapes on the windows themselves to prevent the sun
> getting into the garage and heating things up. *At least it shouldn't
> get much hotter that the outside air temp that way. *HTH
>
> * * * * Frederick

That doesn't sound right - 28 times faster for 10C difference?! I'm
pretty sure one of my reference books says it's 2x faster for chemical
reactions for each 10C temperature increase. If it was 28x, wouldn't
that mean that 1 year of aging at 55F would be "chemically equivalent"
to 28 years of aging at 72F? I've got white wines at both those temps,
and they don't taste much different after 1-2 years.

Pp

Adding more sulphite
 

"pp" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 4:01 am, "frederick ploegman" >
wrote:
> "michael" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> One final point.I am aware that it is good practise to keep wine cool-
> otherwise wine would not be traditionally stored in cellars.Also
> cellars will have a much more uniform temperature than other storage
> areas.My problem is that I do not have any storage space other than in
> my garage-not used to keep the car anymore,but full of gardening,wine
> and cidermaking equipment.I have thought of buying a cooler,but they
> are expensive,unsightly and apparently are not very satisfactory.I am
> going to rig up some curtaining to draw across the shelves,since the
> sunlight can shine in through the window directly on to the glass
> demijohns.However,I do not have any better ideas to keep temperature
> fluctuation low.At this time of the year the temperature fluctuates
> between 40F and 50F ( If we have a very cold snap,then I tend to put a
> heater on to bring the temperature up a little),but later in June-
> August,the temperature fluctuates between 60F and 80F.Does this really
> matter if one is trying to make good wine?I try to minimise the
> possibility of bungs coming out in hot weather,but apart from that why
> does my kind of temperature fluctuation harm the maturing wine?
> Best regards
>
> michael
>
> Jack Keller did a blog entry on how temperature effects the speed
> of the chemical reactions involved in the "ageing" process. IIRC
> it went something like this. Using a base line "cellar" temp of 55f,
> at "room temp" of ~72f the reactions occured about 8 times faster.
> And, at 90f they occured about 56 times faster. Unfortunately,
> this can't be used to speed up the ageing process because some
> of the UNdesireable reactions that can happen at the higher temps
> would happen so slowly at cellar temp as to effectively never
> happen at all. Bottom line: Cooler is better. Memory ain't what
> it used to be. Those interested might want to look up that blog
> entry and read it for themselves.
>
> If you are stuck with using the garage, I might suggest putting white
> shades or drapes on the windows themselves to prevent the sun
> getting into the garage and heating things up. At least it shouldn't
> get much hotter that the outside air temp that way. HTH
>
> Frederick

That doesn't sound right - 28 times faster for 10C difference?! I'm
pretty sure one of my reference books says it's 2x faster for chemical
reactions for each 10C temperature increase. If it was 28x, wouldn't
that mean that 1 year of aging at 55F would be "chemically equivalent"
to 28 years of aging at 72F? I've got white wines at both those temps,
and they don't taste much different after 1-2 years.

Pp

Here is the link:
http://www.homebrew.com/wine_cellar/wineblog.shtml

But he must be working on it because the last entry showing right
now is for Feb. 2006. I will try to find the date of the entry when
the page gets restored to normal. Sorry..........

Frederick

Adding more sulphite
 

"frederick ploegman" > wrote in message
...
>

OK. Here is the new link:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/wineblognew.asp

Look at the blog entry for December 5th, 2007. Titled
"Temperature and Wine". HTH

Frederick