This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring to making
grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.

My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. I'll
often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed, which
usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do you all rack at that
point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I usually rack at the
end of winter.

Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the effect of letting
the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.

Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
accurately be called "lees". It's really not old grape skins or
stems...it's just dead yeast.

Any thoughts?

Lee

This post may get a few opposing points of view in reply.

I used to rack more frequently than I do now. Like you, I ferment in
open tops; press off and let primary finish (more or less), and the
gross lees settle, for a few days then innoculate with ML bacteria and
rack off the gross lees. I used to then rack every 3 months or so but
these last 2 years have backed off of those subsequent rackings and
don't likely rack until blending or to change oak. In other words, I do
let the wine sit on some of the fine lees for an extended period. I am
becoming convinced, right or wrong, that there is an appreciable
improvement in mouthfeel of the wine.




On 2007-12-23 08:18:12 -0800, Lee > said:

> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring to making
> grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>
> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. I'll
> often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
> Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
> then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed, which
> usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do you all rack at that
> point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I usually rack at the
> end of winter.
>
> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the effect of letting
> the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
> accurately be called "lees". It's really not old grape skins or
> stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Lee

Lee wrote:

> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm
> referring to making grape wine from fresh red
> grapes, in carboys.
>
> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in
> an open tub. I'll often innoculate with ML just
> prior to the completion of the primary. Once the
> primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine
> settle, and
> then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is
> completed, which usually takes about a month,
> I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do
> you all rack at that
> point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees?
> I usually cold stabilize in my garage over the
> winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then
> I usually rack at the end of winter.
>
> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what
> the effect of letting the wine sit on 1 inch of
> dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of
> the carboy can
> accurately be called "lees". It's really not
> old grape skins or stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Lee

Lee, your procedure is the same as mine. I also
live in Maryland (Brunswick), how about you?

Paul

On Dec 23, 3:36*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> Lee wrote:
> > This question concerns how often to rack. *I'm
> > referring to making grape wine from fresh red
> > grapes, in carboys.
>
> > My routine is to do the primary fermentation in
> > an open tub. *I'll often innoculate with ML just
> > prior to the completion of the primary. Once the
> > primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine
> > settle, and
> > then rack after a day or so. *But once the ML is
> > completed, which usually takes about a month,
> > I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> > about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. *Do
> > you all rack at that
> > point? *Or do you let the wine age on its lees?
> > I usually cold stabilize in my garage over the
> > winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> > weeks or so of consistently cold weather). *Then
> > I usually rack at the end of winter.
>
> > Does this sound about right? *I'm wondering what
> > the effect of letting the wine sit on 1 inch of
> > dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> > Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of
> > the carboy can
> > accurately be called "lees". *It's really not
> > old grape skins or stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> > Lee
>
> Lee, your procedure is the same as mine. *I also
> live in Maryland (Brunswick), how about you?
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I do pretty much what you do; in my experience these heavier lees have
to go. You can get some nasty H2S in them and it can come on in a
week. Tom S always stirred his lees regularly but he wanted that
buttery taste you get from yeast cells breaking down. I would say if
you want to try it on one carboy go for it but stir or at least smell
weekly.

Joe

My neighbor racks after pressing: 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months.
Maybe or maybe not once more before bottling.

3 days for the thick yuck. 3 weeks for the settled yeast and MLF
culture, and 3 months for clearing, tartrate crystals, fine deposits,
etc. Seems to work...

Steve
Oregon


On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:27:36 -0800 (PST), Joe Sallustio
> wrote:

>On Dec 23, 3:36*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>> Lee wrote:
>> > This question concerns how often to rack. *I'm
>> > referring to making grape wine from fresh red
>> > grapes, in carboys.
>>
>> > My routine is to do the primary fermentation in
>> > an open tub. *I'll often innoculate with ML just
>> > prior to the completion of the primary. Once the
>> > primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine
>> > settle, and
>> > then rack after a day or so. *But once the ML is
>> > completed, which usually takes about a month,
>> > I'll be left with a filled carboy with
>> > about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. *Do
>> > you all rack at that
>> > point? *Or do you let the wine age on its lees?
>> > I usually cold stabilize in my garage over the
>> > winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
>> > weeks or so of consistently cold weather). *Then
>> > I usually rack at the end of winter.
>>
>> > Does this sound about right? *I'm wondering what
>> > the effect of letting the wine sit on 1 inch of
>> > dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>>
>> > Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of
>> > the carboy can
>> > accurately be called "lees". *It's really not
>> > old grape skins or stems...it's just dead yeast.
>>
>> > Any thoughts?
>>
>> > Lee
>>
>> Lee, your procedure is the same as mine. *I also
>> live in Maryland (Brunswick), how about you?
>>
>> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I do pretty much what you do; in my experience these heavier lees have
>to go. You can get some nasty H2S in them and it can come on in a
>week. Tom S always stirred his lees regularly but he wanted that
>buttery taste you get from yeast cells breaking down. I would say if
>you want to try it on one carboy go for it but stir or at least smell
>weekly.
>
>Joe

Lee > wrote
> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring
> to making grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>
> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open
> tub. I'll often innoculate with ML just prior to the
> completion of the primary. Once the primary is
> completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and then
> rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed,
> which usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a
> filled carboy with about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the
> bottom. Do you all rack at that point? Or do you let
> the wine age on its lees? I usually cold stabilize in
> my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on
> 3 weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I
> usually rack at the end of winter.

Only three weeks? I also live in Maryland - just west of
Ballmer The City that Slurs - and I get 10 to 12 weeks of
consistently cold weather.

> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the
> effect of letting the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast
> cells for 3-4 months does.

I make Mead, not wine. My experience with letting the must
sit on the dead yeast cells is called "autolysis". Call it
"auto lee sis" or "auto ly sis". It is still a foul odor
and a foul taste.

> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the
> carboy can accurately be called "lees". It's really not
> old grape skins or stems...it's just dead yeast.

It's still garbage by any other name.

> Any thoughts?

I rack when primary fermentation is complete. My Meads do
not need an ML fermentation. I rack again two months later.

Dick

Dick Adams wrote:

> Lee > wrote
>> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm
>> referring to making grape wine from fresh red
>> grapes, in carboys.
>>
>> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in
>> an open
>> tub. I'll often innoculate with ML just prior
>> to the
>> completion of the primary. Once the primary is
>> completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
>> then
>> rack after a day or so. But once the ML is
>> completed, which usually takes about a month,
>> I'll be left with a filled carboy with about
>> 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the
>> bottom. Do you all rack at that point? Or do
>> you let
>> the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
>> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in
>> Maryland, we can count on
>> 3 weeks or so of consistently cold weather).
>> Then I usually rack at the end of winter.
>
> Only three weeks? I also live in Maryland -
> just west of Ballmer The City that Slurs - and I
> get 10 to 12 weeks of consistently cold weather.
>
>> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering
>> what the effect of letting the wine sit on 1
>> inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> I make Mead, not wine. My experience with
> letting the must
> sit on the dead yeast cells is called
> "autolysis". Call it
> "auto lee sis" or "auto ly sis". It is still a
> foul odor and a foul taste.
>
>> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom
>> of the
>> carboy can accurately be called "lees". It's
>> really not old grape skins or stems...it's just
>> dead yeast.
>
> It's still garbage by any other name.
>
>> Any thoughts?
>
> I rack when primary fermentation is complete.
> My Meads do not need an ML fermentation. I rack
> again two months later.
>
> Dick

Mead is a lot different than wine, as I am finding
out by making my first meads. I value your input
on meads and I have no reason to doubt that you
are correct about the racking issue with meads -
I defer to your experience.

However, with wines, I think it is a different
story. The French have an expression "The Lees
Feed the Wine". It is a good idea to
periodically stir and smell but the wine will
benefit from clean lees contact.

"Lee" > wrote in message
...
> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring to making
> grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>
> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. I'll
> often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
> Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
> then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed, which
> usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do you all rack at that
> point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I usually rack at the
> end of winter.
>
> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the effect of letting
> the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
> accurately be called "lees". It's really not old grape skins or
> stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Lee


Lee,

I made a "sur lie" batch of Concord wine several years ago, leaving the lees
in the carboy and stirring it up every few days for a while and less
frequently after the first month. I let it age in the cellar over the winter
and bottled in the spring. I didn't notice any major difference from the
regularly racked wines. Maybe Concord doesn't react the same way to lees as
"real" grapes.

Maryland seems to be a popular spot for wine makers; I'm up in Harford
County.

Paul

I'm having problems, please help me !!!!



"Lee" > wrote in message ...
> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring to making
> grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>
> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. I'll
> often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
> Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
> then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed, which
> usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do you all rack at that
> point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I usually rack at the
> end of winter.
>
> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the effect of letting
> the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
> accurately be called "lees". It's really not old grape skins or
> stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Lee

Jim > wrote:

> I'm having problems, please help me !!!!

What are your problems?

=========

>"Lee" > wrote:

>> This question concerns how often to rack. I'm referring to making
>> grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>>
>> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. I'll
>> often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
>> Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
>> then rack after a day or so. But once the ML is completed, which
>> usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
>> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. Do you all rack at that
>> point? Or do you let the wine age on its lees? I usually cold
>> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
>> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). Then I usually rack at the
>> end of winter.
>>
>> Does this sound about right? I'm wondering what the effect of letting
>> the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
>> accurately be called "lees". It's really not old grape skins or
>> stems...it's just dead yeast.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Lee

On Dec 26, 6:52*am, (Dick Adams) wrote:
> Jim > wrote:
> > I'm having problems, please help me !!!!
>
> What are your problems?
>
> =========
>
>
>
> >"Lee" > wrote:
> >> This question concerns how often to rack. *I'm referring to making
> >> grape wine from fresh red grapes, in carboys.
>
> >> My routine is to do the primary fermentation in an open tub. *I'll
> >> often innoculate with ML just prior to the completion of the primary.
> >> Once the primary is completed, I'll press, let the wine settle, and
> >> then rack after a day or so. *But once the ML is completed, which
> >> usually takes about a month, I'll be left with a filled carboy with
> >> about 1/2 to 1 inch of debri on the bottom. *Do you all rack at that
> >> point? *Or do you let the wine age on its lees? *I usually cold
> >> stabilize in my garage over the winter (in Maryland, we can count on 3
> >> weeks or so of consistently cold weather). *Then I usually rack at the
> >> end of winter.
>
> >> Does this sound about right? *I'm wondering what the effect of letting
> >> the wine sit on 1 inch of dead yeast cells for 3-4 months does.
>
> >> Also, I'm not sure if the debri in the bottom of the carboy can
> >> accurately be called "lees". *It's really not old grape skins or
> >> stems...it's just dead yeast.
>
> >> Any thoughts?
>
> >> Lee- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This isn't 'our' Jim from the UK; this is a guy having trouble posting
to newsgroups in general. Seems like he figured it out...

Joe