A few years ago I made a 7 gallon batch of wine. I followed the usual
instructions of adding a couple of campden tablets per gallon on each
racking (2 times) and just before bottling.

The wine never shook off the sulphur smell. I even had a a bottle of
that batch 8 years later (from a friend who was too scared to drink
it) that still had the sulphur odour.

My guess is that this may be because I was careful not to splash as a
I racked, and so little oxygen entered the wine and the sodium
metabisuplphate was not consequently 'taken-up'.

I've only just returned to winemaking and I don't want this happening
to a 7 gallon batch of peach wine that I must rack in the next few
days?

Any theories, similar experiences? Do you do splashless rackings? Had
an over-sulphured wine?

Perhaps I shouldn't plunge the end of the tube in to the collecting
wine, as I rack, and let it dangle splashily above instead?

Any wise words, particularly of experience, appreciated.

Greg

I think you got bad advice on using campden tablets to be honest. 1
per US gallon is roughly 70 PPM SO2. So how I would use them in 7
gallons would be:

*5 crushed tables added initially for around 50 PPM.
* 3 to no more than 5 each rack depending on how gently I was
racking.

Your first rack can be splashy; it can help to finish up any remaining
sugar in the wine. After that, gentle racks like you did are better.
I think you just used too much, that is all.

I prefer using the powdered form, I use 1/4 teaspoon K2SO4 initially
and a rounded 1/8 teaspoon each rack for 5 gallons.

Joe

I used to have too much sulfite in my wine too so started measuring
the SO2 regularly, especially on whites. The results were quite
surprising - I would lose only 10-20ppm between the rackings, even for
periods as long as 6 months or more. So these days I go even lower
than the amounts Joe mentioned and I like the results.

I would recommend measuring the free SO2 to get a handle on what you
need on average, this can vary significantly based on technique and
your juice/grape sources. For whites, I'm very happy with the Vinoferm
testing kit - easier to measure and more economical than Titrets. The
only drawback is it can be had to find, I have to get it shipped form
California.

Pp


On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> I think you got bad advice on using campden tablets to be honest. 1
> per US gallon is roughly 70 PPM SO2. So how I would use them in 7
> gallons would be:
>
> *5 crushed tables added initially for around 50 PPM.
> * 3 to no more than 5 each rack depending on how gently I was
> racking.
>
> Your first rack can be splashy; it can help to finish up any remaining
> sugar in the wine. After that, gentle racks like you did are better.
> I think you just used too much, that is all.
>
> I prefer using the powdered form, I use 1/4 teaspoon K2SO4 initially
> and a rounded 1/8 teaspoon each rack for 5 gallons.
>
> Joe

Just to add to the already good advice. The lower the Ph the less SO2
needed. I don't remember the actual amounts but if your Ph is high,
say around 3.8-4.0 you need more SO2 in ppm to protect it compared to
if the Ph was , say, 3.2.

Bob


Greg Lorriman wrote:
> A few years ago I made a 7 gallon batch of wine. I followed the usual
> instructions of adding a couple of campden tablets per gallon on each
> racking (2 times) and just before bottling.
>
> The wine never shook off the sulphur smell. I even had a a bottle of
> that batch 8 years later (from a friend who was too scared to drink
> it) that still had the sulphur odour.
>
> My guess is that this may be because I was careful not to splash as a
> I racked, and so little oxygen entered the wine and the sodium
> metabisuplphate was not consequently 'taken-up'.
>
> I've only just returned to winemaking and I don't want this happening
> to a 7 gallon batch of peach wine that I must rack in the next few
> days?
>
> Any theories, similar experiences? Do you do splashless rackings? Had
> an over-sulphured wine?
>
> Perhaps I shouldn't plunge the end of the tube in to the collecting
> wine, as I rack, and let it dangle splashily above instead?
>
> Any wise words, particularly of experience, appreciated.
>
> Greg

pp wrote:

> I used to have too much sulfite in my wine too so started measuring
> the SO2 regularly, especially on whites. The results were quite
> surprising - I would lose only 10-20ppm between the rackings, even for
> periods as long as 6 months or more. So these days I go even lower
> than the amounts Joe mentioned and I like the results.
>
> I would recommend measuring the free SO2 to get a handle on what you
> need on average, this can vary significantly based on technique and
> your juice/grape sources. For whites, I'm very happy with the Vinoferm
> testing kit - easier to measure and more economical than Titrets. The
> only drawback is it can be had to find, I have to get it shipped form
> California.
>
> Pp
PP you are spot on. Measure the SO2, via aeration oxidation if possible.
Keep to around 25 to 30 FSO2 for white, and 35 FSO2 for reds. Top up
as needed. If you want to add 10ppm as pottasium metabisulphite powder,
then add 20ppm (mg/L) pottasium metabisulphite powder. ie add double.

Check free SO2 monthly and adjust according to need.

Add 10 to 20 ppm at every transfer /racking. You will learn with time
how much you need to add.


James.












>
>
> On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>>I think you got bad advice on using campden tablets to be honest. 1
>>per US gallon is roughly 70 PPM SO2. So how I would use them in 7
>>gallons would be:
>>
>>*5 crushed tables added initially for around 50 PPM.
>>* 3 to no more than 5 each rack depending on how gently I was
>>racking.
>>
>>Your first rack can be splashy; it can help to finish up any remaining
>>sugar in the wine. After that, gentle racks like you did are better.
>>I think you just used too much, that is all.
>>
>>I prefer using the powdered form, I use 1/4 teaspoon K2SO4 initially
>>and a rounded 1/8 teaspoon each rack for 5 gallons.
>>
>>Joe
>
>
>

thanks for the advice. Decanting is a jolly good idea; I should do it
more often.

It's definately sulpur dioxide. I've smelt decomposing lees: revolting.

On 24 Aug, 02:47, wrote:
> Just to add to the already good advice. The lower the Ph the less SO2
> needed. I don't remember the actual amounts but if your Ph is high,
> say around 3.8-4.0 you need more SO2 in ppm to protect it compared to
> if the Ph was , say, 3.2.

Interesting. Where do you get such info? My winemaking books haven't
led me so far down this path.

I would love to do all of that, but in the UK things seem a little
primitive. What sort of equipement should I be seeking to cost-
effectively test as you suggest? I make wine mainly because it is such
good value, and good enough to drink with pleasure.

> PP you are spot on. Measure the SO2, via aeration oxidation if possible.
> Keep to around 25 to 30 FSO2 for white, and 35 FSO2 for reds. Top up
> as needed. If you want to add 10ppm as pottasium metabisulphite powder,
> then add 20ppm (mg/L) pottasium metabisulphite powder. ie add double.
>
> Check free SO2 monthly and adjust according to need.
>
> Add 10 to 20 ppm at every transfer /racking. You will learn with time
> how much you need to add.
>
> James.
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> >>I think you got bad advice on using campden tablets to be honest. 1
> >>per US gallon is roughly 70 PPM SO2. So how I would use them in 7
> >>gallons would be:
>
> >>*5 crushed tables added initially for around 50 PPM.
> >>* 3 to no more than 5 each rack depending on how gently I was
> >>racking.
>
> >>Your first rack can be splashy; it can help to finish up any remaining
> >>sugar in the wine. After that, gentle racks like you did are better.
> >>I think you just used too much, that is all.
>
> >>I prefer using the powdered form, I use 1/4 teaspoon K2SO4 initially
> >>and a rounded 1/8 teaspoon each rack for 5 gallons.
>
> >>Joe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> One. One Campden tablet per gallon, and generally only every other
> racking. I also wouldn't add any right before bottling, as that may
> produce unacceptable levels of free SO2 in the bottled product..

I think I'll try that advice about not adding campden tablets before
bottling. I;m not expecting it to last so long anyway. One thing I
probably should mention : I've added
no tannin to this batch of peach wine. Considering the oxygen
absorbing properties of tannin do you have any opinion on that move?

Joe,

I think I accidentally replied to you by email.

On Aug 29, 4:53 pm, Greg Lorriman > wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 02:47, wrote:
>
> > Just to add to the already good advice. The lower the Ph the less SO2
> > needed. I don't remember the actual amounts but if your Ph is high,
> > say around 3.8-4.0 you need more SO2 in ppm to protect it compared to
> > if the Ph was , say, 3.2.
>
> Interesting. Where do you get such info? My winemaking books haven't
> led me so far down this path.

That info is absolutely correct as a heads up. Margalit's Winery
Technology and Operations is one source among many. I can send you an
excel spreadsheet of the values but if you look in the archives of
this group I'm sure it's been posted.

Do you have to make any of these measurements to make good wine? You
will get different answers but it is possible to make good wine
without doing any of this. Making repeatably good wines is easier
though if you know some of the basic parameters the others were made
under though.

I do a lot of measurement but that is my background; I like to do
that. I know many people who make good wine with just a hydrometer
and their taste buds though. I'll not knock that.

There are just a few basics I think you absolutely have to do; you
need to know the sugar you start with, the hydrometer gets that. You
need to keep the wine away from air, an airlock and proper topping
handles that. You need to keep the sulfite levels high enough to
protect the wine. Some just add 1/4 teaspoon of potassium
metabisulfite per 5 gallons (US) every time they rack and leave it at
that.

Personally, that is not good enough for me. I want to know more about
how these wines were made so i take additional measurements for
titratable acidity, pH and residual sugar. (My sulfite measurement
technique is suspect, I agree aeration oxidation is the preferred way
to go.)

Greg Lorriman wrote:

> On 24 Aug, 02:47, wrote:
>> Just to add to the already good advice. The
>> lower the Ph the less SO2 needed. I don't
>> remember the actual amounts but if your Ph is
>> high, say around 3.8-4.0 you need more SO2 in
>> ppm to protect it compared to if the Ph was ,
>> say, 3.2.
>
> Interesting. Where do you get such info? My
> winemaking books haven't led me so far down this
> path.

A "Rule of Thumb" is this for the following pH

pH | SO2 in parts per million

3.2 20 ppm
3.3 30 ppm
3.4 40 ppm
3.5 50 ppm
3.6 60 ppm
3.7 70 ppm
3.8 80 ppm
3.9 90 ppm

In other words, just look at the tenths digit in
the pH and multiply times 100

> Personally, that is not good enough for me. I want to know more about
> how these wines were made so i take additional measurements for
> titratable acidity, pH and residual sugar. (My sulfite measurement
> technique is suspect, I agree aeration oxidation is the preferred way
> to go.)

I'm definately interested in measurement; I just haven't had materials
that suggested that much more than titration was available to the
amateur.

Any other book recommendations?

Thanks for the great info,

Greg