Carbonation
 

I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than
there!

Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.

Thanks, Jim

Carbonation
 

Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?

It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
quite another.

Get busy with the fizzy!

I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
intended ;)

Sean






On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than
> there!
>
> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>
> Thanks, Jim

Carbonation
 

Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had trying to
make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to teach
me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.

I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
example?

Jim

"snpm" > wrote in message ups.com...
> Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>
> It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
> sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
> to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
> concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
> messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
> would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
> reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
> quite another.
>
> Get busy with the fizzy!
>
> I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
> intended ;)
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than
>> there!
>>
>> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
>> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>
>> Thanks, Jim
>
>

Carbonation
 

On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
> Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had trying to
> make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to teach
> me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>
> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
> example?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
> > Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>
> > It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
> > sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
> > to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
> > concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
> > messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
> > would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
> > reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
> > quite another.
>
> > Get busy with the fizzy!
>
> > I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
> > intended ;)
>
> > Sean
>
> > On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
> >> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than
> >> there!
>
> >> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
> >> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
> >> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>
> >> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
They would be a better crowd to ask I guess

Carbonation
 

Ah they wouldn't know about what the story is on carbonating wine though ;)



"snpm" > wrote in message ups.com...
> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>> Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had trying
>> to
>> make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to
>> teach
>> me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>>
>> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
>> example?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>> > Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>>
>> > It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
>> > sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
>> > to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
>> > concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
>> > messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
>> > would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
>> > reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
>> > quite another.
>>
>> > Get busy with the fizzy!
>>
>> > I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
>> > intended ;)
>>
>> > Sean
>>
>> > On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>> >> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather
>> >> than
>> >> there!
>>
>> >> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>> >> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
>> >> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>
>> >> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess
>

Carbonation
 

I had a hunt around and eventually found an answer. Aparrently force-carbonation of wine isn't particularly rare in
commercial wine production. The bubbles are said to be inferior to those in sparkling wines which have been produced
using the champenoise method and similar...

I also found some mention of force sparkling meads...

It took a while to get there, but it was quite interesting reading..

Jim


"jim" > wrote in message ...
> Ah they wouldn't know about what the story is on carbonating wine though ;)
>
>
>
> "snpm" > wrote in message ups.com...
>> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>>> Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had
>>> trying to
>>> make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to
>>> teach
>>> me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>>>
>>> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
>>> example?
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>>> > Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>>>
>>> > It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
>>> > sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
>>> > to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
>>> > concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
>>> > messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
>>> > would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
>>> > reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
>>> > quite another.
>>>
>>> > Get busy with the fizzy!
>>>
>>> > I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
>>> > intended ;)
>>>
>>> > Sean
>>>
>>> > On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>>> >> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather
>>> >> than
>>> >> there!
>>>
>>> >> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>>> >> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
>>> >> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>>
>>> >> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
>> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess
>>
>
>

Carbonation
 

On Feb 22, 4:06 pm, "snpm" > wrote:
> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had trying to
> > make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to teach
> > me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>
> > I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
> > example?
>
> > Jim
>
> > "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
> > > Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>
> > > It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
> > > sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
> > > to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
> > > concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
> > > messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
> > > would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
> > > reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
> > > quite another.
>
> > > Get busy with the fizzy!
>
> > > I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
> > > intended ;)
>
> > > Sean
>
> > > On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
> > >> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather than
> > >> there!
>
> > >> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
> > >> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having a
> > >> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>
> > >> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess


We've done both.

My wife makes beer; I make the wine. We carbonated beer by placing
the corny keg outside (winter) and pumping it up to 30 PSI with CO2.
I'd then rock the keg, shaking it- you could feel the gas going in and
hear the whine.

We'd let it sit for an hour or so, then repeat. When It wouldn't hiss
much when pressurizing, the keg was carbonated. 30PSI is a bit much,
so I'd bleed off the head and let it sit.

Same principle with wine- purge, add wine, carbonate.

Carbonation
 

Thanks for that, useful to know! I suppose from most points of view it is only what yeast is doing for you under
pressure in the bottle so it sounded a like a good bet... I wonder what the difference in 'quality of bubble' that some
mention when commenting on differences between 'natural' and 'forced' carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has passed
its 'fizzical'. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Cheers, Jim



> wrote in message oups.com...
> On Feb 22, 4:06 pm, "snpm" > wrote:
>> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had
>> > trying to
>> > make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to
>> > teach
>> > me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>>
>> > I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
>> > example?
>>
>> > Jim
>>
>> > "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>> > > Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>>
>> > > It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
>> > > sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
>> > > to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
>> > > concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
>> > > messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
>> > > would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
>> > > reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
>> > > quite another.
>>
>> > > Get busy with the fizzy!
>>
>> > > I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
>> > > intended ;)
>>
>> > > Sean
>>
>> > > On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>> > >> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather
>> > >> than
>> > >> there!
>>
>> > >> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>> > >> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having
>> > >> a
>> > >> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>
>> > >> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
>> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess
>
>
> We've done both.
>
> My wife makes beer; I make the wine. We carbonated beer by placing
> the corny keg outside (winter) and pumping it up to 30 PSI with CO2.
> I'd then rock the keg, shaking it- you could feel the gas going in and
> hear the whine.
>
> We'd let it sit for an hour or so, then repeat. When It wouldn't hiss
> much when pressurizing, the keg was carbonated. 30PSI is a bit much,
> so I'd bleed off the head and let it sit.
>
> Same principle with wine- purge, add wine, carbonate.
>

Carbonation
 

Here's an article that talks about bubble size

http://www.vaeng.com/news/bubble-size-key-to-flavor

and this article has link to journal article

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/st...champagne.html

So bubbles on steroids is not a good thing? Hmmmmm

Gene

jim wrote:
> Thanks for that, useful to know! I suppose from most points of view it is only what yeast is doing for you under
> pressure in the bottle so it sounded a like a good bet... I wonder what the difference in 'quality of bubble' that some
> mention when commenting on differences between 'natural' and 'forced' carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has passed
> its 'fizzical'. Sorry, couldn't resist.
>
> Cheers, Jim
>
>
>
> > wrote in message oups.com...
>> On Feb 22, 4:06 pm, "snpm" > wrote:
>>> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had
>>>> trying to
>>>> make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to
>>>> teach
>>>> me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>>>> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer for
>>>> example?
>>>> Jim
>>>> "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>>>>> Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>>>>> It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
>>>>> sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
>>>>> to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
>>>>> concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
>>>>> messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
>>>>> would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
>>>>> reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
>>>>> quite another.
>>>>> Get busy with the fizzy!
>>>>> I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
>>>>> intended ;)
>>>>> Sean
>>>>> On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>>>>>> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> there!
>>>>>> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>>>>>> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>>>>> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
>>> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess
>>
>> We've done both.
>>
>> My wife makes beer; I make the wine. We carbonated beer by placing
>> the corny keg outside (winter) and pumping it up to 30 PSI with CO2.
>> I'd then rock the keg, shaking it- you could feel the gas going in and
>> hear the whine.
>>
>> We'd let it sit for an hour or so, then repeat. When It wouldn't hiss
>> much when pressurizing, the keg was carbonated. 30PSI is a bit much,
>> so I'd bleed off the head and let it sit.
>>
>> Same principle with wine- purge, add wine, carbonate.
>>
>
>

Carbonation
 

Thanks for those links Gene, interesting reading indeed.

So it seems bubble size is important and the smaller the bubbles the better, that makes sense surface with the greater
bubble area/volume ratio providing more flavour (and more rapid alcohol take up in the gut no doubt).

It's interesting - if unsurprising - that it is the wine composition that decides the bubble size. If there is a
difference in flavour between natural and forced carbonation, pure CO2 added into a wine might change the flavour of a
wine differently to that naturally produced by pressurised fermentation. Perhaps it is down to chemicals produced by
yeast under pressure?

Food for thought all the same, cheers!

Jim

"gene" > wrote in message .. .
> Here's an article that talks about bubble size
>
> http://www.vaeng.com/news/bubble-size-key-to-flavor
>
> and this article has link to journal article
>
> http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/st...champagne.html
>
> So bubbles on steroids is not a good thing? Hmmmmm
>
> Gene
>
> jim wrote:
>> Thanks for that, useful to know! I suppose from most points of view it is only what yeast is doing for you under
>> pressure in the bottle so it sounded a like a good bet... I wonder what the difference in 'quality of bubble' that
>> some mention when commenting on differences between 'natural' and 'forced' carbonation. Pressumably ever bubble has
>> passed its 'fizzical'. Sorry, couldn't resist.
>>
>> Cheers, Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message oups.com...
>>> On Feb 22, 4:06 pm, "snpm" > wrote:
>>>> On Feb 22, 4:06 am, "jim" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I did and the same thought ocurred to me as I asked I must admit. I remember the spectacular blast I had
>>>>> trying to
>>>>> make fizzy milk. Personally I think nature itself had a stomach heave when it saw what I was doing and decided to
>>>>> teach
>>>>> me a lesson. I figured there must be industrial processes which contains the solution properly.
>>>>> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already beverages and not just water, like beer
>>>>> for
>>>>> example?
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> "snpm" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>>>>>> Did you ever own a soda stream Jim?
>>>>>> It was the first thing I saved up my pocket money to get, and I wasn't
>>>>>> sorry. However, anyone who had one will recall that it was good advice
>>>>>> to carbonate the water before adding the concentrate. If you added the
>>>>>> concentrate to the water first, the thing went ballistic with sticky
>>>>>> messy froth when you attempted to carbonate it. I suspect the same
>>>>>> would happen with a wine for what is presumably the same
>>>>>> reason....carbonating water is one thing, carbonating beverages is
>>>>>> quite another.
>>>>>> Get busy with the fizzy!
>>>>>> I miss Soda Stream, which is not mainstream in the States, no pun
>>>>>> intended ;)
>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>> On Feb 21, 4:22 pm, "jim" > wrote:
>>>>>>> I didin't want to take the other champagne style carbonation thread OT so I ask an obvious question here rather
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> there!
>>>>>>> Does anybody carbonate wine in the same manner that they do fizzy drinks? If not, is it because the flavour is
>>>>>>> impaired? The only other answer I could think of is that it is more hassle and expense than it is worth having
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> pressure-bottler and carbonation system rather than simply adding sugar or bottling pre-dry.
>>>>>>> Thanks, Jim- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> never personally heard of force carbonating beer. Try the beery group.
>>>> They would be a better crowd to ask I guess
>>>
>>> We've done both.
>>>
>>> My wife makes beer; I make the wine. We carbonated beer by placing
>>> the corny keg outside (winter) and pumping it up to 30 PSI with CO2.
>>> I'd then rock the keg, shaking it- you could feel the gas going in and
>>> hear the whine.
>>>
>>> We'd let it sit for an hour or so, then repeat. When It wouldn't hiss
>>> much when pressurizing, the keg was carbonated. 30PSI is a bit much,
>>> so I'd bleed off the head and let it sit.
>>>
>>> Same principle with wine- purge, add wine, carbonate.
>>>
>>

Carbonation
 

> I mean don't some people force-carbonate other drinks which are already
> beverages and not just water, like beer for example?

Certainly. Your problem with milk might have been too much pressure,
not letting it sit long enough, or your dispensing tubing length. Also,
milk is high in protein, which is what allows bubbles to form... so it
just may be too "foamy" for pressure...

As one poster said, you can force carb beer by using extra high pressure
(40#) and shaking, then reducing the pressure to serve. Also you can
just let it sit under low pressure (10#) for a couple weeks for the same
result.

I'm going to read the articles about bubble size, but the beer homebrewing
groups tend to believe that CO2 is CO2 and that any difference in bubble
size is due to other factors ... carbonation level, time, etc. (natural
carbonation takes longer). I'm curious what those articles say...

Derric

Carbonation
 

> I'm going to read the articles about bubble size, but the beer homebrewing
> groups tend to believe that CO2 is CO2 and that any difference in bubble
> size is due to other factors ...

Carbonation levels in beer are much lower than sparkling wine but the
'medium' is probably a lot more viscous among other things. I make
beer too, but I carbonate naturally. I don't make enough to feel a
need to buy a kegging system . Yet.

I read both of these articles and while I followed the logic I'm not
sure they gave enough info to make a conclusion. They compared
champagne to inexpensive sparkling wine and said they were different
as to bubble formation even though they had similar CO2 diffusion
which I'm sure is true. If the point is that pressure is only one
factor, I guess I agree. If they would have said they were both
wines of similar alcohol, acidity, residual alcohol and similar aging
on similar yeasts I would have found it more useful though. (To be
fair, they said 'inexpensive' and that implies the non-champagne was
not aged on the yeast the same amount of time as the champagne.)

I make sparkling wines but I age them for several years in the bottle
on the yeast. The bubbles are tiny. I make it from Seyval, which
would horrify someone from Champagne if we were to compare. In other
words, I hear what they are saying but am having a hard time accepting
it at face value. The Seyval is not a noble grape but makes a very
good sparkling wine and the bubbles are tiny. I have never bought a
$150 bottle of champagne but I doubt those bubbles are smaller than
mine are. I would suspect time on the yeast has a lot to do with this
if I had to guess and I did it without resorting to spectrum analysis;
I read a book... Sometimes you can get too caught up in the
science; I liked the comment in the second article about science and
art.

Joe

Carbonation
 

Thanks for the comment Joe, its all really interesting to me :)

Jim

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message oups.com...
>> I'm going to read the articles about bubble size, but the beer homebrewing
>> groups tend to believe that CO2 is CO2 and that any difference in bubble
>> size is due to other factors ...
>
> Carbonation levels in beer are much lower than sparkling wine but the
> 'medium' is probably a lot more viscous among other things. I make
> beer too, but I carbonate naturally. I don't make enough to feel a
> need to buy a kegging system . Yet.
>
> I read both of these articles and while I followed the logic I'm not
> sure they gave enough info to make a conclusion. They compared
> champagne to inexpensive sparkling wine and said they were different
> as to bubble formation even though they had similar CO2 diffusion
> which I'm sure is true. If the point is that pressure is only one
> factor, I guess I agree. If they would have said they were both
> wines of similar alcohol, acidity, residual alcohol and similar aging
> on similar yeasts I would have found it more useful though. (To be
> fair, they said 'inexpensive' and that implies the non-champagne was
> not aged on the yeast the same amount of time as the champagne.)
>
> I make sparkling wines but I age them for several years in the bottle
> on the yeast. The bubbles are tiny. I make it from Seyval, which
> would horrify someone from Champagne if we were to compare. In other
> words, I hear what they are saying but am having a hard time accepting
> it at face value. The Seyval is not a noble grape but makes a very
> good sparkling wine and the bubbles are tiny. I have never bought a
> $150 bottle of champagne but I doubt those bubbles are smaller than
> mine are. I would suspect time on the yeast has a lot to do with this
> if I had to guess and I did it without resorting to spectrum analysis;
> I read a book... Sometimes you can get too caught up in the
> science; I liked the comment in the second article about science and
> art.
>
> Joe
>