Barrel Aging
 

I have a 12 Gal French barrel about 1 1/2 yrs old and it seems that is
out of oak flavor already.
I have rotated 4 wines into it and this last cab sauv has been in since
July 10 and still very little oak flavor although the wine is coming
along very nicely.
I wonder if topping off twice a week is slowing down the oak extraction
process?
Or should I be doing something to the barrel between each wine change?
Up to now the barrel has been continously full with quick rinse of so2.
thanks
Joe

Barrel Aging
 

Pino, you now have a "neutral" oak barrel. Barrels run out of oak flavor in
time. I have a couple of these in my cellar. Now I add StaVin oak beans to
wine in the barrel and still benefit from the concentration and mellowing of
flavors that occurs while barrel aging. I don't think you need to top up
twice a week. I keep "top-up" wine in beer bottles. My 10-gallon barrel
needs one 12 ounce beer bottle of wine every two weeks to stay full.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Pino" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I have a 12 Gal French barrel about 1 1/2 yrs old and it seems that is
> out of oak flavor already.
> I have rotated 4 wines into it and this last cab sauv has been in since
> July 10 and still very little oak flavor although the wine is coming
> along very nicely.
> I wonder if topping off twice a week is slowing down the oak extraction
> process?
> Or should I be doing something to the barrel between each wine change?
> Up to now the barrel has been continously full with quick rinse of so2.
> thanks
> Joe
>

Barrel Aging
 

Bill: do you think that oak barrel wine is superior to carboy or
stainless steel keg wine? Pls. comment. Obviously it is the oak
contribution, right? But I would guess that the evaporation also helps
out here in rounding out the wine. I would guess some of the harser
volatiles evaporate....without trying to be too scientific.

On Dec 16, 9:42 am, "William Frazier" >
wrote:
> Pino, you now have a "neutral" oak barrel. Barrels run out of oak flavor in
> time. I have a couple of these in my cellar. Now I add StaVin oak beans to
> wine in the barrel and still benefit from the concentration and mellowing of
> flavors that occurs while barrel aging. I don't think you need to top up
> twice a week. I keep "top-up" wine in beer bottles. My 10-gallon barrel
> needs one 12 ounce beer bottle of wine every two weeks to stay full.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> "Pino" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I have a 12 Gal French barrel about 1 1/2 yrs old and it seems that is
> > out of oak flavor already.
> > I have rotated 4 wines into it and this last cab sauv has been in since
> > July 10 and still very little oak flavor although the wine is coming
> > along very nicely.
> > I wonder if topping off twice a week is slowing down the oak extraction
> > process?
> > Or should I be doing something to the barrel between each wine change?
> > Up to now the barrel has been continously full with quick rinse of so2.
> > thanks
> > Joe- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Barrel Aging
 

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Bill: do you think that oak barrel wine is superior to carboy or
> stainless steel keg wine? Pls. comment. "

Depends on the wine. For red wines and probably most whites barrel aging
will make a better wine IMO. There is a slow evaporation taking place in a
barrel. This concentrates the wine flavors. There's something about the
oak that also smooths out the wine taking away those rough falvors you
notice in a young wine. While you can add oak flavor you can't duplicate
these other effects in a carboy or tank. My barrels are old and out of oak
flavor but I still use them year round. I either add StaVin American oak
beans or some French Oak chips that I have a lifetime supply of. There are
some white wines that are made without oak flavor. For these wines a carboy
is fine but if you have an old, neutral oak barrel that has only been used
for white wine certain white wines can benefit...such as Chablis-style
chardonnay, pinot gris or even my old Vidal.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

Barrel Aging
 

The only thing I would add here is that applies to a properly toasted
barrel. I have 5 gallon untoasted and like an idiot I didn't
disassemble it and toast it. The flavors untoasted oak impart are
different and just didn't seem compatible with my reds. They
literally are hard or harsh, not subtle at all. It's fairly neutral
now so I'm as happy with it as I am going to get. It was a gift.

Taking a barrel apart and getting it back together isn't rocket science
but does require attention to detail.
Joe

Barrel Aging
 

1.5 years sounds too soon for your barrels to be neutral. I've owned 1
American Oak barrel and currently I'm using 3 - 15 gallon French Oak
barrels. To me, the extraction from French Oak is much more subtle. I
also think that Cab Sauv stands up well to the oak flavor, that is,
it's not easily overwhelmed. Since you're using a 'broken-in' barrel
and Cab Sauv it may just mean that you need to give it time. I would
give it at least a year. Last year I put my Cab Sauv into to 2 new
French Oak barrels. It is still there doing nicely and IMO is not
anywhere near being over-oaked. Topping up twice per week for a used
barrel sounds like a lot. I top up twice per month and haven't had a
problem.

When changing wines, I give the barrel a couple of good rinses of very
warm water and even let it sit a few minutes. Tartrates that deposit
on the inside of the barrels will require some heat for them to
resolubilize. I find this helps get them off the barrel walls. It's
not perfect but it helps.

RD

Barrel Aging
 

Looks like I have to start saving for another barrel. The cab sauv is
benefiting from the barrel so I will keep it in there for a long while.

How often do people re-cooper their barrels. If you add oak chips do
you also need to recooper your barrel(s)?
thanks
Joe
RD wrote:
> 1.5 years sounds too soon for your barrels to be neutral. I've owned 1
> American Oak barrel and currently I'm using 3 - 15 gallon French Oak
> barrels. To me, the extraction from French Oak is much more subtle. I
> also think that Cab Sauv stands up well to the oak flavor, that is,
> it's not easily overwhelmed. Since you're using a 'broken-in' barrel
> and Cab Sauv it may just mean that you need to give it time. I would
> give it at least a year. Last year I put my Cab Sauv into to 2 new
> French Oak barrels. It is still there doing nicely and IMO is not
> anywhere near being over-oaked. Topping up twice per week for a used
> barrel sounds like a lot. I top up twice per month and haven't had a
> problem.
>
> When changing wines, I give the barrel a couple of good rinses of very
> warm water and even let it sit a few minutes. Tartrates that deposit
> on the inside of the barrels will require some heat for them to
> resolubilize. I find this helps get them off the barrel walls. It's
> not perfect but it helps.
>
> RD

Barrel Aging
 

> How often do people re-cooper their barrels. If you add oak chips do
> you also need to re-cooper your barrel(s)?

You don't have to treat the barrel any differently than you have been.
Just add the chips. If these are bigger barrels they make other
products you might be interested in too. They make a 'stave' that is
basically a strip of toasted oak and larger scale wineries like them
too. They aren't used in small lot winemaking much because the size
makes it tough to scale the right amount of oak.

I have used both Sta Vin beans and chips and side by side the Sta Vin
is a little better to my taste but the cost per gallon is several times
higher. Overall, it's nothing compared to a barrel though. It's hard
to describe but I think they a little less 'woody' than chips. I used
American oak at the same qty (by weight) on the same wine. (It could
have something to do with weighting it in all honesty, the Sta Vin is a
uniform size, the chips are not exactly uniform.) The difference was
slight to me, chips taste fine too. If I wasn't comparing them side by
side I doubt i would have had an opinion. I like a lot of oak so the
differences may be more pronouced if made differently to others too.

I don't care for the sawdust looking material although I am trying an
experiment with the dust put in right at fermentation. It didn't ruin
anything, I'm curious how it will end up. I did ruin one by adding too
much dust after fermentation. It became blending wine...

I like and use both chips and beans regularly.

Joe