Hi,
long time no post, for me...
i moved from michigan to Indiana,
and haven't made a batch in almost a year.
But now I have 2 going on....
one is a batch of cabernet,
the other is Shiraz,
both from california juice that I bought when I was in Canada...5 gallon
buckets, good price.
Just wondering about the Shiraz...
is that something that people usually oak?
Do shiraz wine kitz come with oak for fermenting or bulk aging? Just
trying to figure out what to do...
though I can't recall that shiraz i've tasted is usually oaked,
or not much if at all.

tahnks.
happy holidays,
Blessed thanksgiving to you all.

> Just wondering about the Shiraz...
> is that something that people usually oak?

Hi Rick,
We do, and heavy. We like Australian reds and they seems to use a lot
of American oak down there. I use about 4 to 5 ounces of beans or
chips at medium to medium heavy toast of American oak. I make
California Syrah (same thing) from juice and think it's much better
oaked than without.

Joe

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > Just wondering about the Shiraz...
> > is that something that people usually oak?
>
> Hi Rick,
> We do, and heavy. We like Australian reds and they seems to use a lot
> of American oak down there. I use about 4 to 5 ounces of beans or
> chips at medium to medium heavy toast of American oak. I make
> California Syrah (same thing) from juice and think it's much better
> oaked than without.
>
> Joe

I also have an Australian Shiraz brewing and the kit I bought came with
2 small packages of oak chips, I used both to get the full oak
experience.

Sean

If you like oak, Shraz is a good candidate for it.

Ray

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> long time no post, for me...
> i moved from michigan to Indiana,
> and haven't made a batch in almost a year.
> But now I have 2 going on....
> one is a batch of cabernet,
> the other is Shiraz,
> both from california juice that I bought when I was in Canada...5 gallon
> buckets, good price.
> Just wondering about the Shiraz...
> is that something that people usually oak?
> Do shiraz wine kitz come with oak for fermenting or bulk aging? Just
> trying to figure out what to do...
> though I can't recall that shiraz i've tasted is usually oaked,
> or not much if at all.
>
> tahnks.
> happy holidays,
> Blessed thanksgiving to you all.
>

As Joe said, the Australians use American oak aggressively. Some
observations to add; the Aussies also use very ripe fruit; almost invariably
adjust acid and do so right at the beginning of fermentation; are aggressive
with oxygen during primary to keep a fast and agressive fermentation; and
they favor fruit that has a strong fruit flavor profle.

The French (northern Rhone) on the other hand seem to favor slightly less
ripe fruit (lower sugar, higher acid), favor terroir versus fruit character,
and use French oak - to varying degrees.

My point - your use of oak depends a lot on the style you're after. I
produce Syrah from our own vineyard here in California. Given the choice, I
would err on the side of high sugar numbers at harvest, adjust acid right at
crush, promote an aggressive fermentaton, but then use French oak. I
currently have about 20 gallons of 06 Syrah in stainless vats with medium
toast French stave inserts. I prefer the slightly softer profile of the
French oak versus the stronger American oak. How long it stays on oak is
varies - that usually gets figured out over a period of tastings.


> Hi,
> long time no post, for me...
> i moved from michigan to Indiana,
> and haven't made a batch in almost a year.
> But now I have 2 going on....
> one is a batch of cabernet,
> the other is Shiraz,
> both from california juice that I bought when I was in Canada...5 gallon
> buckets, good price.
> Just wondering about the Shiraz...
> is that something that people usually oak?
> Do shiraz wine kitz come with oak for fermenting or bulk aging? Just
> trying to figure out what to do...
> though I can't recall that shiraz i've tasted is usually oaked,
> or not much if at all.
>
> tahnks.
> happy holidays,
> Blessed thanksgiving to you all.
>

Ric wrote:
> As Joe said, the Australians use American oak aggressively. Some
> observations to add; the Aussies also use very ripe fruit; almost invariably
> adjust acid and do so right at the beginning of fermentation; are aggressive
> with oxygen during primary to keep a fast and agressive fermentation; and
> they favor fruit that has a strong fruit flavor profle.
>
> The French (northern Rhone) on the other hand seem to favor slightly less
> ripe fruit (lower sugar, higher acid), favor terroir versus fruit character,
> and use French oak - to varying degrees.
>
> My point - your use of oak depends a lot on the style you're after. I
> produce Syrah from our own vineyard here in California. Given the choice, I
> would err on the side of high sugar numbers at harvest, adjust acid right at
> crush, promote an aggressive fermentaton, but then use French oak. I
> currently have about 20 gallons of 06 Syrah in stainless vats with medium
> toast French stave inserts. I prefer the slightly softer profile of the
> French oak versus the stronger American oak. How long it stays on oak is
> varies - that usually gets figured out over a period of tastings.


I think that this is pretty good advice. Oak type depends on the style
you want. Without knowing the flavour profile
of your shiraz I would say go French in the first year. If it handles it
well then experiement with American the year
afterwards if you think that a more aggressive oaking would suit. I
would oak a portion, say 2/3 to 3/4, and then you have some to back
blend with, if you overoak. Best to be a bit conservative to start with.
If you decide you have not enought oak you can always add more. This is
better than oaking everything at a 100% new oak rate with chips, and
then working out down the track that you are overoaked. The oak cube
companies always give nice spreadsheets on how to use their products to
give 100percent new barrel oak flavours. However most of the time except
with exceptional fruit, the wine would have one third one year old oak,
one third 2 year old and one third three year oak. Hence their tables
can be missleading and lead to overoaking. If this does happen, dont
worry too much, just rack off the oak, and then age. If a few months
time you will probably be wondering what you were worrying about. It
will intergrate. I like to use Stavin cubes. Look at their website, it
tells where you can get home winemaker quantities.

James,
The Australian winemaker, working in the Fingerlakes New York.
>
>
>>Hi,
>>long time no post, for me...
>>i moved from michigan to Indiana,
>>and haven't made a batch in almost a year.
>>But now I have 2 going on....
>>one is a batch of cabernet,
>>the other is Shiraz,
>>both from california juice that I bought when I was in Canada...5 gallon
>>buckets, good price.
>>Just wondering about the Shiraz...
>>is that something that people usually oak?
>>Do shiraz wine kitz come with oak for fermenting or bulk aging? Just
>>trying to figure out what to do...
>>though I can't recall that shiraz i've tasted is usually oaked,
>>or not much if at all.
>>
>>tahnks.
>>happy holidays,
>>Blessed thanksgiving to you all.
>>
>
>
>

You have some very good advice from several people on several styles;
one additional word on oaking;

The last bag of StaVin beans I got were European (probably Hungarian)
heavy toast. The heavy toast seems to take much longer and be a bit
more subtle that lighter toasting. I'm probably going back to a
medium to no more than medium heavy toast.

I like StaVin but am not averse to good chips either; I think both do
well. You get what you pay for in most things but chips are much less
expensive and do a decent job on medium quality juice or grapes. I
don't care for the dust but others like it.

French and European are similar tastes, American is different. (French
chips are probably cheaper than American beans from StaVin is where
this is going; just in case cost matters.)

Joe