Friends,

I'm a beer brewer, but I think I wanna try a batch of wine. After
reading several archived threads, it looks like using Welches juice
concentrates are the way to go for me. I do have a few questions
though, that I hope some of you can help me with.

It looks like about 2 cans of concentrate and 1 pound of sugar per
gallon is what's called for. Will this ratio hold up for a 5 gallon
batch?

I see a lot of recipes calling for campden tablets. My understanding is
that these are for sanitation. Can I use my regular beer sanitation
methods instead?

I also see a lot of recipes calling for acid blend. What is this for?
Can I use lemon juice instead? How much should I use for 5 gallons?
I've got a whole danged tree of 'em in the back yard. Might as well
use them for something.

I keg all my beer, and that's what I'll be doing with my wine. That
means it will be served cold and sparkling. Now, I'm about as far
from a wine connoisseur as one can get, but the phrase "cold
sparkling merlot" made me gag just typing it (and I apologize to
those that had to read it). I was thinking white grape and peach if I
could find such a flavor. Are there unique flavors that would lend
themselves well to this style? Raspearcrangraple? Pineberry bananango?

I haven't decided yet if I wanna make the 40 mile round trip to my LHBS
just for some pectic emzymes. But if I do, how much do I use for 5
gallons? Will leaving it out impact the flavor at all?

I plan on a three step fermenting scheme: 2 weeks in a plastic primary
fermenting bucket; 2 weeks in glass carboy secondary; another 2 weeks
in a glass carboy tertiary; then keg. Naturally, I'll be using my
hydrometer to guide me, but does this sound realistic? Will my wine be
drinkable after 2 weeks in the keg (8 weeks from brew day)?

I've got a few packets of Lalvin champagne yeast (1115 maybe?) and a
bunch of yeast nutrient. Any thing else I'm gonna need? Are there any
questions I forgot?

Thanks,

b.

wrote:
> ...
> It looks like about 2 cans of concentrate and 1 pound of sugar per
> gallon is what's called for. Will this ratio hold up for a 5 gallon
> batch?

Jack Keller's recipe actually calls for 1.25 lbs per gallon, but yes,
the ratio remains the same whether you are doing 1 gallon or 100.

> I see a lot of recipes calling for campden tablets. My understanding is
> that these are for sanitation. Can I use my regular beer sanitation
> methods instead?

The campden tablets are optional. My first batch lacked any added
sulfite, and it turned out fine. I'm not sure what beer sanitation
methods look like, but I don't think they include sulfites in any form.
Sulfites are added to wine not only for sanitation purposes, but also
to reduce oxidation. If you chose to go beyond the first experimental
batch, you really should get campden tablets.

> I also see a lot of recipes calling for acid blend. What is this for?
> Can I use lemon juice instead? How much should I use for 5 gallons?
> I've got a whole danged tree of 'em in the back yard. Might as well
> use them for something.

Acid blend normally includes Malic, Tartaric, and Citric acids. You can
use lemon juice, but it will impart some citrus flavors into your wine.
This may or may not be a good thing. I'm not sure how much to use.
Perhaps you could google for an old country wine recipe that calls for
lemon juice.

> I haven't decided yet if I wanna make the 40 mile round trip to my LHBS
> just for some pectic emzymes. But if I do, how much do I use for 5
> gallons? Will leaving it out impact the flavor at all?

Pectic enzyme breaks down the pectin that can cause a haze in your
wine. It also has the added benefit of reducing the production of fusel
alcohols; yeast cells can inadvertently produce complex alcohol
molecules under certain circumstances, one of which is when they break
down a pectin molecule. Search this forum for "fusel alcohols" for more
information. With or without pectic enzyme, only a trivial amount of
fusel alcohols will be produced. One tsp per gallon is normally
recommended. Pectin has no impact on flavor, as far as I know. The haze
is the primary concern.

> I plan on a three step fermenting scheme: 2 weeks in a plastic primary
> fermenting bucket; 2 weeks in glass carboy secondary; another 2 weeks
> in a glass carboy tertiary; then keg. Naturally, I'll be using my
> hydrometer to guide me, but does this sound realistic? Will my wine be
> drinkable after 2 weeks in the keg (8 weeks from brew day)?

I think you're rushing things a bit. For the batches that I've done, 3
to 4 months is typical. Another 1 to 2 months on top of that in the
bottle. You need to provide adequate time for bulk aging and bottle
aging (or keg aging in this case).

> I've got a few packets of Lalvin champagne yeast (1115 maybe?) and a
> bunch of yeast nutrient. Any thing else I'm gonna need? Are there any
> questions I forgot?

Take a look at Jack Keller's website. It's at:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net

Greg G.

> ... With or without pectic enzyme, only a trivial amount of
> fusel alcohols will be produced. One tsp per gallon is normally
> recommended. ...

In the interest of clarity, I want to make sure no one thinks I'm
suggesting adding 1 tsp of fusel alcohols to anything. The 1 tsp
referred to pectic enzyme. To the uninitiated, this might not be
obvious.

Greg

wrote:
> wrote:
> > ...
> > It looks like about 2 cans of concentrate and 1 pound of sugar per
> > gallon is what's called for. Will this ratio hold up for a 5 gallon
> > batch?
>
> Jack Keller's recipe actually calls for 1.25 lbs per gallon, but yes,
> the ratio remains the same whether you are doing 1 gallon or 100.
>
> > I see a lot of recipes calling for campden tablets. My understanding is
> > that these are for sanitation. Can I use my regular beer sanitation
> > methods instead?
>
> The campden tablets are optional. My first batch lacked any added
> sulfite, and it turned out fine. I'm not sure what beer sanitation
> methods look like, but I don't think they include sulfites in any form.
> Sulfites are added to wine not only for sanitation purposes, but also
> to reduce oxidation. If you chose to go beyond the first experimental
> batch, you really should get campden tablets.
>

Thank you very much for your reply

Oxidation is bad for beer too, but no sulfites are used to reduce it.
Folks rely on careful handling to minimize exposure to air after
fermentation. Maybe wine is more subject to the ravages of oxygen.

Speaking of which, folks typically airate their wort (beer's equivilent
to must) before pitching yeast. Some people even push pure oxygen into
their wort before pitching. Is this necessary / recommended for wine?

Thanks again for your help,

b.

wrote:
> ...
> Speaking of which, folks typically airate their wort (beer's equivilent
> to must) before pitching yeast. Some people even push pure oxygen into
> their wort before pitching. Is this necessary / recommended for wine?

I made a number of batches before I ever heard of this. The extra
oxygen right at the start helps the yeast get started since they
initially grow and reproduce in an aerobic mode; later they're happy to
work in an anaerobic environment. A much bigger deal is made of this in
mead recipes than for wine. I'm not sure why.

For my wine batches, I usually cover the carboy with a tightly bound
paper napkin at the start. This should allow a small amount of air
exchange, thereby giving the yeast a bit of oxygen. After about 4 or 5
days I replace the napkin with an airlock. On smaller, one gallon
batches, I normally shake the carboy a bit before I pitch the yeast,
thereby infusing the must with a bit more oxygen.

So yes, a bit of oxygen right at the start is generally considered a
good thing, but may not be absolutely necessary. I wouldn't go as far
as percolating with pure oxygen.

Greg

Since you want to carbonate (sparkle) this and are considering lemon
juice, are you considering Niagara? I think it's normally called white
grape in concentrate cans. It might make a better sparkler than the
red, which is Concord.

Sanitation in beer making is more important than wine; whatever you
already do is fine. Wine is more acidic and has more alcohol so is
less prone to infection than beer.

Carbonated wine can be nice as a kind of 'pop' wine if that is your
goal; sparkling wines are usually aged and are a little more complex
because we let the yeast 'rot' which gives it a creamier, buttery
taste. It' s not necessary, just a style.

If you want this to end up a little sweet you probably want not only
sulfite but sorbate; if dry, you can probably get away without sulfite
if you are religious about cleaning and topping up. I'm not
recommending this, just saying your investment would be minimal
money-wise since you have most of what you need.

Joe