What is the difference and why use them both? When I first began
making wine I was under the impression that they both told the same
story.

Ph measures the strength of the acid no matter how much acid is in the
must and TA gives you the total amount of acid. I'm no expert but if
you had a small amount of a really strong acid you could have a PH that
was lower ( more acidic ) than if you had a larger amount of a weaker
acid. Say theoretically, and I'm not sure this is true , but say after
MLF there is the same amount of lactic acid as there was malic acid ,
the PH will rise due to the same amount of weaker lactic acid, the TA
would stay the same but the PH would rise. There are alot of winemakers
out there, myself included, that never even take TA readings. The only
important reading BEFORE fermentation is the PH. After fermentation ,
adjustments are made by taste and not by what a scientific measurement
will tell you. After making enough wine and tasting it year after year
and comparing it against store bought , you get a feel for what you
want and need to do. I usually will take more PH measurements after
tasting but that is just for a FYI. BTW, you should take the PH's of
store bought wine after you taste them to sharpen your tasting skills.
This is just my method. There are others out there that swear by the TA
including Jeff Cox , author of From Vines to Wines.

Bob


wrote:
> What is the difference and why use them both? When I first began
> making wine I was under the impression that they both told the same
> story.

BTW,

It is my opinion, and only my opinion, that commercial wines are
purposely made on the flabbier side to appeal to a bigger market of
wine drinkers.I think most wine drinkers really can't handle a balanced
wine. Most commercial wines I have drank seem too flabby. I don't
drink alot of expensive wine ,but, I would assume that as you get into
the better wines the wine would be more balanced and not as de-acified
as some of the stuff I've tasted. Just my opinion. Anyone else notice
that???

Bob


wrote:
> What is the difference and why use them both? When I first began
> making wine I was under the impression that they both told the same
> story.

TA is the theoretical measure of total acidity, expressed in volume (".6"
would be 6 grams per liter). Because Total Acidity is really hard to
measure, most winemakers use 'titratable acididty' as an accurate enough
measure - meaning, we meausre titratable acidity, and express it as total
acidity. Clsoe enough.

pH, as double suggested, is a measure of relative acid strength.
Technically, it is an analagous measure of hydrogen ion concentration. In
other words, total acidity and pH are not necessarily related. It is
possible to have one wine that has less total acidity, yet register a higher
pH (less acidic). And reverse. This is because there are a number of
different acids in the wine or must, each with different relative strengths.
Tartaric, malic, and citric are the most common - but there are a bunch of
other minor players. Relativity between those acids can change the acid
profile of your wine.

I differ with double on one point; I think it is important to measure both
pH and TA prior to fermentation. I would not want to adjust acid based on
just one reading. It would be too much like shooting in the dark (can you
tell I've done it, and regretted it?!).

pH is easy to read in the lab, and in the field. TA is a more laborious
provess, that requires a certain amount of lab equipment and effort - but is
actually easy once you get the hang of it. BTW - a pH meter can come in very
handy when measuring TA, especially with red wines. Many of the good
winemaking books have whole chapters on this topic.


> What is the difference and why use them both? When I first began
> making wine I was under the impression that they both told the same
> story.
>
>