Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 18-09-2006, 05:57 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

Question: I have never wanted to extend the maceration past dryness
for fear of something bad happening, yet I hear people doing it all the
time. My assumption was that these people had nice Stainless Steel
fermenters they could close up tight from O2, but my setup is not so
elaborate- Plastice drums with cloth to keep the bugs off. Am I
missing something here? I'm making about 110 gal and I don't want to
risk it by letting it sit around dry.
any thoughts?
Marco


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Old 18-09-2006, 07:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration


marcO wrote:
Question: I have never wanted to extend the maceration past dryness
for fear of something bad happening, yet I hear people doing it all the
time. My assumption was that these people had nice Stainless Steel
fermenters they could close up tight from O2, but my setup is not so
elaborate- Plastice drums with cloth to keep the bugs off. Am I
missing something here? I'm making about 110 gal and I don't want to
risk it by letting it sit around dry.
any thoughts?
Marco


You can do it for some time with a layer or two of plastic wrap like
Saran on top - I've done about a week like this with no ill effects.
But make sure to taste and nose the wine every day and press quickly at
any sign of trouble. To reduce the danger, split the batch and do the
extended maceration on a smaller amount, that way you can also compare
the result with the regular treatment to see which you like better.

Pp

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Old 19-09-2006, 02:55 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

I would first ask myself - "why", and look for an answer other than 'other
people have been doing it'.

A chart in Margalit's book suggests that color extraction DROPS after about
8 days - so that would not seemt o be a valid reason.Increasing tannins?
Does the grape need it?



"marcO" wrote in message
oups.com...
Question: I have never wanted to extend the maceration past dryness
for fear of something bad happening, yet I hear people doing it all the
time. My assumption was that these people had nice Stainless Steel
fermenters they could close up tight from O2, but my setup is not so
elaborate- Plastice drums with cloth to keep the bugs off. Am I
missing something here? I'm making about 110 gal and I don't want to
risk it by letting it sit around dry.
any thoughts?
Marco




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Old 19-09-2006, 12:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

I am making Cab. The last one I made I did not extend the maceration or
do cold soaking and the result lacked body. I will be doing cold
soaking for about 2 days with dry ice, but I was wondering how it is
even possible to extend the maceration safely.


Ric wrote:
I would first ask myself - "why", and look for an answer other than 'other
people have been doing it'.

A chart in Margalit's book suggests that color extraction DROPS after about
8 days - so that would not seemt o be a valid reason.Increasing tannins?
Does the grape need it?



"marcO" wrote in message
oups.com...
Question: I have never wanted to extend the maceration past dryness
for fear of something bad happening, yet I hear people doing it all the
time. My assumption was that these people had nice Stainless Steel
fermenters they could close up tight from O2, but my setup is not so
elaborate- Plastice drums with cloth to keep the bugs off. Am I
missing something here? I'm making about 110 gal and I don't want to
risk it by letting it sit around dry.
any thoughts?
Marco



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Old 19-09-2006, 03:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration


marcO wrote:
Question: I have never wanted to extend the maceration past dryness
for fear of something bad happening, yet I hear people doing it all the
time. My assumption was that these people had nice Stainless Steel
fermenters they could close up tight from O2, but my setup is not so
elaborate- Plastice drums with cloth to keep the bugs off. Am I
missing something here? I'm making about 110 gal and I don't want to
risk it by letting it sit around dry.
any thoughts?
Marco


I've done extended macerations on each of my reds for the last few
years. The results have been great so far. As discussed in the thread,
I've put a double layer of saran-wrap directly on the liquid (in 55
gallon drums) and fill the remaining headspace with Co2 or Argon (you
can get a tank of either relatively cheaply) and then tape the lid of
the drum shut. It doesn't ensure a total oxygen-free zone, but it
seems to work. You will want to check it frequently to make sure all
is good, replace the gas, etc. All in all, macerations make for a more
full-bodied wine, especially with big reds like cabs, zins or
syrahs.....



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Old 19-09-2006, 04:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration


ble layer of saran-wrap directly on the liquid (in 55
gallon drums) and fill the remaining headspace with Co2 or Argon (you
can get a tank of either relatively cheaply) and then tape the lid of


I have a tank of C-25, a mixture of 25% CO2 and 75% Argon for oxygen
exclusion to MIG weld. Any reason why I can't use the tank I have and
just use my regulator to let it trickle into a MacroBin? I want to
extend Maceration a week or two as well.

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Old 19-09-2006, 05:16 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration


marcO wrote:
I am making Cab. The last one I made I did not extend the maceration or
do cold soaking and the result lacked body. I will be doing cold
soaking for about 2 days with dry ice, but I was wondering how it is
even possible to extend the maceration safely.



Cold soak and extended maceration don't make sense done together on one
wine. Generally speaking, the first is used to extract colour with the
intent to press early to get a fruity wine ready to drink. The second
is used to extract tannins and give them time to polymerize, and it's
done to make well-structured, big reds. As somebody already mentioned,
after about a week you're start losing some colour, so extracting
colour early via cold maceration doesn't make sense in this scenario.
If you decide to macerate, I'd go with the extended maceration for a
Cab as long as you've got good grapes.

Pp

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Old 19-09-2006, 11:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

I can't make distinct references, but I have read of wineries doing
both. I'm new to this, only having made wine twice before. My results
have been good, and I'm trying to get better and better. This year,
cold soaking, I'll see if I get better results. I am trying to only
change one variable at a time. But this is hard to do when the cycle
time for wine is so short and the desire to get better is so great.


pp wrote:
marcO wrote:
I am making Cab. The last one I made I did not extend the maceration or
do cold soaking and the result lacked body. I will be doing cold
soaking for about 2 days with dry ice, but I was wondering how it is
even possible to extend the maceration safely.



Cold soak and extended maceration don't make sense done together on one
wine. Generally speaking, the first is used to extract colour with the
intent to press early to get a fruity wine ready to drink. The second
is used to extract tannins and give them time to polymerize, and it's
done to make well-structured, big reds. As somebody already mentioned,
after about a week you're start losing some colour, so extracting
colour early via cold maceration doesn't make sense in this scenario.
If you decide to macerate, I'd go with the extended maceration for a
Cab as long as you've got good grapes.

Pp


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Old 20-09-2006, 12:10 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

If you only want to change one variable and you are trying to achieve
more body then you should go with the extended maceration rather than
cold soaking since, as pp points out, cold soaking is for increased
color extraction.

Also as pp also points out, poor quality grapes will not improve with
extended maceration, you will only end up with a poor, highly tannic
wine.

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Old 20-09-2006, 12:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration



Cold soak and extended maceration don't make sense done together on one

wine.

I have to disagree with this statement. Sure cold soak gives you a
leg up on color for an early press but, I see nothing inconsistent with
extracting all you can into the aqueous followed by extented time for
tannin extraction and polymerization. Both processes are routinely
done on many high end cabs I enjoy. I've seen nothing lacking in the
color of Cakebread cabs, for example.

RD



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Old 20-09-2006, 02:55 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
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Default Extended Maceration

Thanks, all. I'm going to go ahead with cold soaking. I am thinking
through the extended maceration. Last time, I fermented for 7 days
with a peak of 86 degrees at about day 5. I've read about extending
this time for up to a month (which I am not about to do), but perhaps I
will try to seal off the wine for a couple of days. I am not going to
go the co2 route- maybe next year when I have a better setup.
Also, there was mention of "good grapes" . I have no idea what I am
getting. I live on the east coast, so I get my grapes through a
distributor. the grapes are cab from sierra foothills ( I know it's not
the best, but I have limited options for 23.50/case delivered, unless
someone out there has a suggestion.

thanks again




miker wrote:
If you only want to change one variable and you are trying to achieve
more body then you should go with the extended maceration rather than
cold soaking since, as pp points out, cold soaking is for increased
color extraction.

Also as pp also points out, poor quality grapes will not improve with
extended maceration, you will only end up with a poor, highly tannic
wine.




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