Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between

Sometimes you get highs and lows in close proximity . Winewise, this
was such a week. The low: in Millburn, NJ for a show at their playhouse,
we stopped for dinner at an Italian place called Basilico. Turns out that
NJ law apparently (?) allows restaurants without wine licenses to sell
wine... but only New Jersey wine.

Wow. So our choices are "cabernet, chardonnay, or pink." I figured I
shouldn't scoff too loudly before trying; I was wrong - the cabernet was
barely bearable to have on the table, but the white zin they replaced it
with was not. Only wine I've ever encountered where none of the four of
us were even willing to sip: not just sewage, but apparently untreated sewage.

Ahem.

Moving on - and up! - we were in DC this past weekend, and (after some
very disappointing and expensive sushi the previous night) I was in the
mood for a steak; so we decided to attempt taking Aidan - our 3.5 year-old
- to Ruth's Chris. The Crystal City location is great: overlooking the
Potomac, National airport, with the Mall in the distance. And Aidan was
really good - so much so that he got to eat ice cream for dinner. Anyway
- on the wine list (which was really pretty good) was a half bottle of
Shafer Merlot, '03; $41 is a little pricy in absolute terms but seemed
decent for Shafer. Glorious, and went through four stages (massive
initial hit - five minutes of closed and thin - opening with tannins
coming through - full and so smooth) very rapidly, so fun to be drinking
also. I am going to go out and find a lot more of this stuff.

The next night, we were in the mood for more of the same, but the venue -
Arlington's Evening Star Cafe - only carried the Hillside Select and were
out of that. So the owner (shop recommended even on initial exposure, btw
- friendly, welcoming, lots of people standing around drinking, seemed
knowledgeable) suggested a new Argentinian merlot which proved a suitable
quaff but nowhere close; I have misplaced the details but will post.
That's not the point, though: to go from NJ sewers to Shafer was quite the
ascension .

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 64
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between


Ewan McNay wrote:
> Sometimes you get highs and lows in close proximity .


I will never forget a meal I had when attending a technical meeting
many years ago. I needed lunch in a hurry and had to select a
restaurant at random close to the meeting center. The restaurant was
neat enough and seemed to have a decent menu. I selected something, I
forget exactly what, that was supposed to be served over noodles. The
waitress soon came back saying that the chef(boiler might be a better
word) was down to one box of the entree, and unfortunately the noodles
had been left out. Could he substitute spaghetti? Since the restaurant
was using commercial entrees in bags to be warmed in boiling water, I
selected a more simple dish. I did not have any wine and had a name
brand beer instead. Then I had a much better dinner that night at a
restaurant suggested by some natives of the city. Beware of restaurants
next to convention centers that get a huge tourist trade.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 430
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between

In article >, says...
>
>Sometimes you get highs and lows in close proximity . Winewise, this
>was such a week. The low: in Millburn, NJ for a show at their playhouse,
>we stopped for dinner at an Italian place called Basilico. Turns out that
>NJ law apparently (?) allows restaurants without wine licenses to sell
>wine... but only New Jersey wine.
>
>Wow. So our choices are "cabernet, chardonnay, or pink." I figured I
>shouldn't scoff too loudly before trying; I was wrong - the cabernet was
>barely bearable to have on the table, but the white zin they replaced it
>with was not. Only wine I've ever encountered where none of the four of
>us were even willing to sip: not just sewage, but apparently untreated

sewage.

Sorry to hear about the NJ wine. We usually try the "local" wines where they
exist. I've had some pleasant surprises, but also some dreck. Never had wines
from NJ though. If given the "opportunity," I'll probably pass.
>
>Ahem.
>
>Moving on - and up! - we were in DC this past weekend, and (after some
>very disappointing and expensive sushi the previous night) I was in the
>mood for a steak; so we decided to attempt taking Aidan - our 3.5 year-old
>- to Ruth's Chris. The Crystal City location is great: overlooking the
>Potomac, National airport, with the Mall in the distance. And Aidan was
>really good - so much so that he got to eat ice cream for dinner. Anyway
>- on the wine list (which was really pretty good) was a half bottle of
>Shafer Merlot, '03; $41 is a little pricy in absolute terms but seemed
>decent for Shafer. Glorious, and went through four stages (massive
>initial hit - five minutes of closed and thin - opening with tannins
>coming through - full and so smooth) very rapidly, so fun to be drinking
>also. I am going to go out and find a lot more of this stuff.
>
>The next night, we were in the mood for more of the same, but the venue -
>Arlington's Evening Star Cafe - only carried the Hillside Select and were
>out of that. So the owner (shop recommended even on initial exposure, btw
>- friendly, welcoming, lots of people standing around drinking, seemed
>knowledgeable) suggested a new Argentinian merlot which proved a suitable
>quaff but nowhere close; I have misplaced the details but will post.
>That's not the point, though: to go from NJ sewers to Shafer was quite the
>ascension .


Of the domestic (US) Merlot producers, I rank Shafer up there with Duckhorn,
Milat, Joseph Phelps, and the Beringer Howell Mtn Bancroft Ranch. Top notch
Merlots.

I too have been passed several Argentinian Merlots (and even more Chilean
Merlots), and have yet to find one that was worth the time to sip them.
Argentinan Malbec from the Mendoza region is another story, as most seem to be
very good. Maybe there are some good Merlots from Argentina and Chile, but
after dozens, I've yet to find one.

Hunt

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between



Hunt wrote:

> In article >, says...
>>The next night, we were in the mood for more of the same, but the venue -
>>Arlington's Evening Star Cafe - only carried the Hillside Select and were
>>out of that. So the owner (shop recommended even on initial exposure, btw
>>- friendly, welcoming, lots of people standing around drinking, seemed
>>knowledgeable) suggested a new Argentinian merlot which proved a suitable
>>quaff but nowhere close; I have misplaced the details but will post.
>>That's not the point, though: to go from NJ sewers to Shafer was quite the
>>ascension .

>
> Of the domestic (US) Merlot producers, I rank Shafer up there with Duckhorn,
> Milat, Joseph Phelps, and the Beringer Howell Mtn Bancroft Ranch. Top notch
> Merlots.


One of the features of the Shafer that I enjoy is that - whether through
simply greater care or an intentional approach; I suspect both - it has
much more complexity and depth than many US Merlots I've tried. Is that
also true of the others you mention? If so, i shall have to do some
comparative testing. [Overgeneralising, I would say that my favourite US
varietal tends to be Zin, and the Shafer Merlot appproaches some of the
characters that I like about that grape]

> I too have been passed several Argentinian Merlots (and even more Chilean
> Merlots), and have yet to find one that was worth the time to sip them.
> Argentinan Malbec from the Mendoza region is another story, as most seem to be
> very good. Maybe there are some good Merlots from Argentina and Chile, but
> after dozens, I've yet to find one.


So: this was the 03 Andeluna Reserve. My notes say 'above average tannins
and depth, some integration but paling in comparison {to Shafer}; a little
too acid and harsh especially in aftertaste' - I suspect it might actually
benefit from a year or two storage.

E

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 430
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between

In article >, says...
>
>
>
>Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article >,
says...
>>>The next night, we were in the mood for more of the same, but the venue -
>>>Arlington's Evening Star Cafe - only carried the Hillside Select and were
>>>out of that. So the owner (shop recommended even on initial exposure, btw
>>>- friendly, welcoming, lots of people standing around drinking, seemed
>>>knowledgeable) suggested a new Argentinian merlot which proved a suitable
>>>quaff but nowhere close; I have misplaced the details but will post.
>>>That's not the point, though: to go from NJ sewers to Shafer was quite the
>>>ascension .

>>
>> Of the domestic (US) Merlot producers, I rank Shafer up there with

Duckhorn,
>> Milat, Joseph Phelps, and the Beringer Howell Mtn Bancroft Ranch. Top notch
>> Merlots.

>
>One of the features of the Shafer that I enjoy is that - whether through
>simply greater care or an intentional approach; I suspect both - it has
>much more complexity and depth than many US Merlots I've tried. Is that
>also true of the others you mention? If so, i shall have to do some
>comparative testing. [Overgeneralising, I would say that my favourite US
>varietal tends to be Zin, and the Shafer Merlot appproaches some of the
>characters that I like about that grape]


Yes, all of the others offer far greater complexity than the majority of US
Merlots that I have sampled, especially the Beringer. It unfolds like an onion
(NO onion on either the nose, or palete though!) as the evening progresses. It
is also the most Zin-like of the bunch that I named.
>
>> I too have been passed several Argentinian Merlots (and even more Chilean
>> Merlots), and have yet to find one that was worth the time to sip them.
>> Argentinan Malbec from the Mendoza region is another story, as most seem to

be
>
>> very good. Maybe there are some good Merlots from Argentina and Chile, but
>> after dozens, I've yet to find one.

>
>So: this was the 03 Andeluna Reserve. My notes say 'above average tannins
>and depth, some integration but paling in comparison {to Shafer}; a little
>too acid and harsh especially in aftertaste' - I suspect it might actually
>benefit from a year or two storage.
>
>E


Not one that I have seen. Thanks for the notes.

Hunt
>




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between

Ewan McNay wrote:
Turns out that NJ law apparently (?) allows restaurants without wine
> licenses to sell wine... but only New Jersey wine.

[snip]

Ewan,
Here in NJ, farm wineries are allowed a small number of "off premises"
tasting & retail sites, which are actually carefully defined & bonded as
part of the winery, wherever in NJ it may be. It's actually a rather
enlightened regulation, IMHO, in that it benefits the small wineries and
small restaurants both. Yes, it is designed to benefit local interests.
I see nothing wrong with that; the big producers have a natural edge in
marketing & distribution.

the cabernet was
> barely bearable to have on the table, but the white zin they replaced it
> with was not. Only wine I've ever encountered where none of the four of
> us were even willing to sip: not just sewage, but apparently untreated
> sewage.
>
> Ahem.


Yowza. I have no idea whose wine it was, but our local wines do,
unfortunately sink to the depths you describe. Others are considerably
better.

There are some old farmers who know more about fruit and vegetables than
wine, who got into winemaking thinking to turn a greater profit. The
developing NJ wine industry is trying earnestly to improve its products,
but it's an uphill battle when dealing with wine producers who might
know little about fine wines.

Other wineries are interested in & capable of making pretty decent wine.
Maybe not "World Class" wine, but sound and enjoyable and a complement
to dining.

I've had both experience. At a neighborhood restaurant I had a locally
produced red which had such high VA that it would have done better on
the salad than in a glass. (The restaurateur staunchly defended it. It
was the last time we ate there.) Recently we attended a wedding at Cape
May Winery. A lovely setting, but for legal reasons the caterer was
unable to serve the house wines. A pity, because the the house wines I
tasted separately were far more interesting than the French, Italian and
Californian wines served at the reception. I look forward to trying more
of their wines.

I sympathize with your NJ wine experience, but I hope it doesn't give
you the impression that all NJ wines are poor.

BTW, I've no connection to any wineries, 'though I do know a few people.

Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default From the sublime to the ridiculous... and in between



Mike McGeough wrote:

> Ewan McNay wrote:
> Turns out that NJ law apparently (?) allows restaurants without wine
>
>> licenses to sell wine... but only New Jersey wine.

>
> [snip]
>
> Ewan,
> Here in NJ, farm wineries are allowed a small number of "off premises"
> tasting & retail sites, which are actually carefully defined & bonded as
> part of the winery, wherever in NJ it may be. It's actually a rather
> enlightened regulation, IMHO, in that it benefits the small wineries and
> small restaurants both. Yes, it is designed to benefit local interests.
> I see nothing wrong with that; the big producers have a natural edge in
> marketing & distribution.


Mike - thanks for the information. I agree, sounds as though it's a smart
set-up. [And BYOB was permitted, we discovered; unsurprisingly the other
tables were thus equipped . Had we not been up against a theatre time
crunch I would have slipped out after we opened the cabernet..]

> the cabernet was
>> barely bearable to have on the table, but the white zin they replaced
>> it with was not. Only wine I've ever encountered where none of the
>> four of us were even willing to sip: not just sewage, but apparently
>> untreated sewage.

>
> Yowza. I have no idea whose wine it was, but our local wines do,
> unfortunately sink to the depths you describe. Others are considerably
> better.


I must apologise for not taking better notes! Mercifully, perhaps, the
details fled rapidly.

> I sympathize with your NJ wine experience, but I hope it doesn't give
> you the impression that all NJ wines are poor.


Well, if you have a recommendation or two, I'd be glad to seek them out.
It was probably worthwhile to plumb the depths, once, I guess .

Thanks - E

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cocktail hour - The sublime Mojito Paul M. Cook General Cooking 1 16-05-2014 08:59 AM
thong gallery in thongs sugar ray every morning sublime thumbs samson General Cooking 0 28-08-2008 02:43 PM
Wine Sublime Larry Wine 0 24-08-2006 07:34 PM
From the sublime ... Nancy Young General Cooking 7 21-12-2003 02:51 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"