|
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert Parker
responds---this is from Decanter.com. http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Richard Neidich" > wrote in news:1ilVf.10217
: > http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html Hi, this article in decanter is a excerpt of the one that was published in the the Dining and Wine section of last wednesday NY Times (requires free registration). http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/dining/22pour.html S. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Richard Neidich wrote: > If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert Parker > responds---this is from Decanter.com. > > > > http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html Parker, for all of what others may think, has never steered me wrong in selecting a wine - I search for wines he rates highly regularly using various internet resources. I always check his ratings for "reds" "rated 90 or higher" and are "less than 25 dollars" :): Petrus is out of my reach. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
I think Parker has revolutionized and energized Americans to understand and
appreciate wine more than before his existence. He simplified the understanding of wine. That said my personal taste in wine differs from his. He likes mostly fruit bombs, I like more subtle wines. Personal taste only. I do think his vintage charts are right on. In my earlier days of drinking I relied heavily on RP until I found my own way. "boosdad1959" > wrote in message oups.com... > > Richard Neidich wrote: >> If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert Parker >> responds---this is from Decanter.com. >> >> >> >> http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html > > Parker, for all of what others may think, has never steered me wrong in > selecting a wine - I search for wines he rates highly regularly using > various internet resources. I always check his ratings for "reds" > "rated 90 or higher" and are "less than 25 dollars" :): Petrus is out > of my reach. > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Richard Neidich" in
link.net: > If you have not seen this article you might be interested. > http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html It's an odd piece. A bunch of that stuff has appeared before, and been hashed out in print and online. (I felt I was re-reading a bunch of familiar lines.) The format of the Decanter piece (note the question at the end) reminds me of trolling messages on newsgroups. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
In message .net>
"Richard Neidich" > wrote: > I think Parker has revolutionized and energized Americans to understand and > appreciate wine more than before his existence. He simplified the > understanding of wine. > > That said my personal taste in wine differs from his. He likes mostly fruit > bombs, I like more subtle wines. Personal taste only. > > I do think his vintage charts are right on. > > In my earlier days of drinking I relied heavily on RP until I found my own > way. Surely that is the point of all the controversy — so long as both individual comsumers and growers recognise that Parker is just another consumer with his own likes and dislikes and don‘t give too much credence to a system which purports to distinguish one or two point differences between wines on a fifty point scale and, more importantly, they recognise that even a five point difference on his scale probably simply reflects subjective opinion at one point in time of a wine‘s life rather than subjective truth good for all time, no harm is done. What does matter is if any individual critic becomes so influential that people consciously begin to make wine in order to attract his praise, ignore what their terroir would be best at producing and prostitute their wines and their wine making skills for a quick or easy buck so that they offer at en primeur tastings wines which do not truly represent the tradition of their appellation and which may, or, more likely, may not, fulfill the potential of the vintage in which they were made. If his tastes were truly as catholic as he sometimes claims there would be no problem, it is simply because the wines he likes tend to one style that the word ”parkerisé• has come into French winegourwers‘ language. Speaking personally as long as he hypes the prices of wines which do not fall into my own — admittedly very subjective — personal preference list he does me no harm in the short term; he may even keep th prices of the wines I like relatively reasonable. In the long term however criticism like his can in reality distort the market and we and he ought to recognise that. The real problem is people who do not, as Richard has done, ”find their own way• and go on relying on Parker without developing their own palates and likes. Tat truly would distort the market far too far in the long term. Tim Hartley |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide.
Richard Neidich wrote: > I think Parker has revolutionized and energized Americans to understand and > appreciate wine more than before his existence. He simplified the > understanding of wine. > > That said my personal taste in wine differs from his. He likes mostly fruit > bombs, I like more subtle wines. Personal taste only. > > I do think his vintage charts are right on. > > In my earlier days of drinking I relied heavily on RP until I found my own > way. > > > > > "boosdad1959" > wrote in message > oups.com... > > > > Richard Neidich wrote: > >> If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert Parker > >> responds---this is from Decanter.com. > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html > > > > Parker, for all of what others may think, has never steered me wrong in > > selecting a wine - I search for wines he rates highly regularly using > > various internet resources. I always check his ratings for "reds" > > "rated 90 or higher" and are "less than 25 dollars" :): Petrus is out > > of my reach. > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide.
Richard Neidich wrote: > I think Parker has revolutionized and energized Americans to understand and > appreciate wine more than before his existence. He simplified the > understanding of wine. It doesn't need to be understood, it needs to be drunk. > > That said my personal taste in wine differs from his. He likes mostly fruit > bombs, I like more subtle wines. Personal taste only. He's a moron. > > I do think his vintage charts are right on. > > In my earlier days of drinking I relied heavily on RP until I found my own > way. > As we all should. > > > > "boosdad1959" > wrote in message > oups.com... > > > > Richard Neidich wrote: > >> If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert Parker > >> responds---this is from Decanter.com. > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html > > > > Parker, for all of what others may think, has never steered me wrong in > > selecting a wine - I search for wines he rates highly regularly using > > various internet resources. I always check his ratings for "reds" > > "rated 90 or higher" and are "less than 25 dollars" :): Petrus is out > > of my reach. > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Michael Scarpitti" wrote ....
> Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide. > What a load of unadulterated crap, Michael. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
See Tim's post above.
Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other wine-producing regions. st.helier wrote: > "Michael Scarpitti" wrote .... > > > Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide. > > > > What a load of unadulterated crap, Michael. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Mr. Uranium, I am not sure where you reside but I am on east coast USA.
Southern state. When I started to like wine in general there were some I liked and some I did not. Over the years my tastes have changed considerably. I did not know much about French wines but knew I liked Chateau Margaux as we had visited on my honeymoon. But I had no knowledge of what the varieties were. So when someone would say Bordeaux style wine...I had no idea what they meant. I wanted to know more about wine in general. My knowledge was lacking and somewhere in the mid 80's I decided to expand my knowledge. Parker was instrumental in the description in his first Bordeaux book just to explain the difference in wines from Haut Medoc vs Pomerol. The differnce in the Cab based vs Merlot prominant wines. I assume you are not anti education and knowledge about wine? You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! :-) > wrote in message ups.com... > Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide. > > Richard Neidich wrote: >> I think Parker has revolutionized and energized Americans to understand >> and >> appreciate wine more than before his existence. He simplified the >> understanding of wine. > > It doesn't need to be understood, it needs to be drunk. > >> >> That said my personal taste in wine differs from his. He likes mostly >> fruit >> bombs, I like more subtle wines. Personal taste only. > > He's a moron. > >> >> I do think his vintage charts are right on. >> >> In my earlier days of drinking I relied heavily on RP until I found my >> own >> way. >> > > As we all should. > >> >> >> >> "boosdad1959" > wrote in message >> oups.com... >> > >> > Richard Neidich wrote: >> >> If you have not seen this article you might be interested. Robert >> >> Parker >> >> responds---this is from Decanter.com. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.decanter.com/news/82062.html >> > >> > Parker, for all of what others may think, has never steered me wrong in >> > selecting a wine - I search for wines he rates highly regularly using >> > various internet resources. I always check his ratings for "reds" >> > "rated 90 or higher" and are "less than 25 dollars" :): Petrus is out >> > of my reach. >> > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Well, Richard, let's work on our uniqueness!
I happened to look in a WS over the weekend, just to see if anything had changed. Well, it hadn't. The same old sorts of stories, breathless gushing (are this years XXXX's the best ever?; is it time to buy XXXXX?, blah, blah, blah). I guess the idea of wine magazines just does not strike me as viable. I have several books that I use as references (I mean books such as Vino Italiano, and the Gambero Rosso guide book), and when I see a wine firm such as Argiolas or Taurino given praise in writing, I take it that I am not insane. I absolutely LOVE the wines of these producers, and did so before I read anything about them. Richard Neidich wrote: > Mr. Uranium, I am not sure where you reside but I am on east coast USA. > Southern state. When I started to like wine in general there were some I > liked and some I did not. Over the years my tastes have changed > considerably. I did not know much about French wines but knew I liked > Chateau Margaux as we had visited on my honeymoon. I dwell in the State of Ohio. > But I had no knowledge of what the varieties were. So when someone would > say Bordeaux style wine...I had no idea what they meant. I wanted to know > more about wine in general. My knowledge was lacking and somewhere in the > mid 80's I decided to expand my knowledge. The number of wines available is excessive. It's best to specialise. Why do you think that Bordeaux-style wine is worth knowing about? It's French! do you cook French style? Did you ever stop to think that 'knowledge of wine' is only half of the equation? If you had an inteterest in French wine, why not French cooking? I despise French cooking, so I have no interest in French wine. French cooking is pretentious. The use of sauces on everything ruins it. Italian cooking is much 'simpler', in that few or no sauces are used. The flavors of the foods are not disguised or interefred with by sauces. Italian wines have been developed to complement the dishes of the regions. Thus, I set out to try to learn some regional Italian dishes that I could make with some consistency, and I always serve them with wines of the region that are appropriate. > Parker was instrumental in the description in his first Bordeaux book just > to explain the difference in wines from Haut Medoc vs Pomerol. The > differnce in the Cab based vs Merlot prominant wines. > > I assume you are not anti education and knowledge about wine? I am against presuming that French wines and cooking are the best. > You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! :-) It's a big struggle to try to overcome the inertia present here. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Richard Neidich" > skrev i melding link.net... > > You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! > :-) > Gnosti seautón, the old greeks said - and you seem to have understood that! :-) Cork seems to be the common denominator here... (Sorry, couldn't restrain myself ;-) Anders |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Cork it. Or in your case screw yourself :-)
On the Parker note I know serious wine people that think the ratings and Wine Spectator, Parker have really hurt the industry...and especially the small producer. Many a fine wine exists but if the wine is not rated, or get a 89 vs a 90 it can destroy the value of the winery itself if small. That said a wine that gets the 90 points or better gets a longer term credibilty that effects it similar to the 1855 clasification of Bordeaux. What they did was set up the best rated in one year to have a permanant economic advantage over all the rest. I think of Parker as better than WS. Gambero Rosso is OK too. I have never decided I liked or disliked a wine because of Parker or WS ratings. But I am independant minded. Corks rule!!!! "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message ... > > "Richard Neidich" > skrev i melding > link.net... >> >> You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! >> :-) >> > Gnosti seautón, the old greeks said - and you seem to have understood > that! :-) > > Cork seems to be the common denominator here... (Sorry, couldn't restrain > myself ;-) > > Anders > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
When I noted very little correspondence between what I liked and the
'ratings' in American wine magazines, I figured they were full of crap and stopped reading them. It was that simple. Take Michele Chiarlo, for example. His wines were constantly put down in the wine press ('like kissing your sister', read one) but I alway found them to be quite good, especially considering the prices! On the other hand, Vietti wines were praised to the skies, but I found them invariably 'off'. ou can fool a man only so many times before he wises up... I am in wine shops often enough to know how the story goes. Some young punk walks in, clutching a wine magazine, and starts browsing the shelves for the 'cabs' that were written up and given high scores. Or some dowager asks for a case of Charles Krug 'Cabernet'. To be considered 'hip' or 'cool', you always have to abbreviate the terms to 'cab' or 'noir'. By the way, I asked the owner of McLaren's wine shop in Columbus about Opus One, just to see what he would say. He became red in the face and vehemently denounced it! He said there were many $15 wines that are 8 times as good as that one! He also told me that their cellar sits on a thermal spring, and consequently the cellar stays too warm. So, the opinion I expressed of Opus One (that it is obviously a rip-off) was backed by a wine-shop owner. Richard Neidich wrote: > Cork it. Or in your case screw yourself :-) > > On the Parker note I know serious wine people that think the ratings and > Wine Spectator, Parker have really hurt the industry...and especially the > small producer. > > Many a fine wine exists but if the wine is not rated, or get a 89 vs a 90 it > can destroy the value of the winery itself if small. > > That said a wine that gets the 90 points or better gets a longer term > credibilty that effects it similar to the 1855 clasification of Bordeaux. > What they did was set up the best rated in one year to have a permanant > economic advantage over all the rest. > > I think of Parker as better than WS. Gambero Rosso is OK too. > > I have never decided I liked or disliked a wine because of Parker or WS > ratings. But I am independant minded. > > Corks rule!!!! > > "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "Richard Neidich" > skrev i melding > > link.net... > >> > >> You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! > >> :-) > >> > > Gnosti seautón, the old greeks said - and you seem to have understood > > that! :-) > > > > Cork seems to be the common denominator here... (Sorry, couldn't restrain > > myself ;-) > > > > Anders > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
That is true about the Thermal Spring at Opus One. They obviously did not
know about it until after the winery was already in. I am not a fan of Opus One but had a bottle that was 15 years old and it was extremely good. My typical thoughts of 1995 to present was Oak Juice. But to each his own. For that kind of money I prefer Chateau Montelena. As long as we are clear..you denounce the ratings aspect of Parker and others like Spectator. Education you are not against. I would tend to agree with that part. > wrote in message ups.com... When I noted very little correspondence between what I liked and the 'ratings' in American wine magazines, I figured they were full of crap and stopped reading them. It was that simple. Take Michele Chiarlo, for example. His wines were constantly put down in the wine press ('like kissing your sister', read one) but I alway found them to be quite good, especially considering the prices! On the other hand, Vietti wines were praised to the skies, but I found them invariably 'off'. ou can fool a man only so many times before he wises up... I am in wine shops often enough to know how the story goes. Some young punk walks in, clutching a wine magazine, and starts browsing the shelves for the 'cabs' that were written up and given high scores. Or some dowager asks for a case of Charles Krug 'Cabernet'. To be considered 'hip' or 'cool', you always have to abbreviate the terms to 'cab' or 'noir'. By the way, I asked the owner of McLaren's wine shop in Columbus about Opus One, just to see what he would say. He became red in the face and vehemently denounced it! He said there were many $15 wines that are 8 times as good as that one! He also told me that their cellar sits on a thermal spring, and consequently the cellar stays too warm. So, the opinion I expressed of Opus One (that it is obviously a rip-off) was backed by a wine-shop owner. Richard Neidich wrote: > Cork it. Or in your case screw yourself :-) > > On the Parker note I know serious wine people that think the ratings and > Wine Spectator, Parker have really hurt the industry...and especially the > small producer. > > Many a fine wine exists but if the wine is not rated, or get a 89 vs a 90 > it > can destroy the value of the winery itself if small. > > That said a wine that gets the 90 points or better gets a longer term > credibilty that effects it similar to the 1855 clasification of Bordeaux. > What they did was set up the best rated in one year to have a permanant > economic advantage over all the rest. > > I think of Parker as better than WS. Gambero Rosso is OK too. > > I have never decided I liked or disliked a wine because of Parker or WS > ratings. But I am independant minded. > > Corks rule!!!! > > "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "Richard Neidich" > skrev i melding > > link.net... > >> > >> You might be the only person more controversial in this group than me! > >> :-) > >> > > Gnosti seautón, the old greeks said - and you seem to have understood > > that! :-) > > > > Cork seems to be the common denominator here... (Sorry, couldn't > > restrain > > myself ;-) > > > > Anders > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Richard Neidich" > skrev i melding link.net... > That said a wine that gets the 90 points or better gets a longer term > credibilty that effects it similar to the 1855 clasification of Bordeaux. > What they did was set up the best rated in one year to have a permanant > economic advantage over all the rest. > the 1855 classification was based, not one one year, but several, if not decades, afaik. And, yes, it is outdated - even prices of today are a better guide... And I agree, the 100 point system is moot, with customers demanding that 'their' wines have at least 90. The fault is not with the system or with this Parker guy, but with customers with bragging needs. :-) I also believe that Parker favors a certain bold style of wine and that wineries unfortunately adapt to it in order to get 90 points or more. Again, it is the general public following the points of the pied piper, to mix metaphors :-) Anders |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Michael Scarpitti" wrote ......
>> > Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide. >> > >> >> What a load of unadulterated crap, Michael. > See Tim's post above. > > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > wine-producing regions. So where does that leave *your* comment that Parker has destroyed the winemaking world? I repeat - *you* write rubbish! Why don't you take stock of your thoughts and write something which is clear and concise and not pure emotional bullshit. I am so glad that I am not forced to listen to you, Michael, because I guarantee that you are just a raver who loves the sound of your own voice - vomiting forth the very first thing that comes into your mind, without giving any cognisance to what you may have said 5 minutes earlier. Parker has NOT destroyed anything. Italy still makes a lake of "vino ordinario" just as France produces an ocean of vin ordinaire - nothing to do with Parker. Please tell me how Parker has destroyed the Spanish or NZ or South African or Portuguese or Austrian or Australian or Chilean or Argentine wine making industries - of what effect he has had on Champagne or Tokaji or Mosel? Of course Parker has had an effect on *some* winemakers practices (and we can argue the pros and cons of that - as we should!). I, myself, have never read Parker - but I have heard that although he appears to "know" Bordeaux - his opinions on Burgundy are not roundly supported. As to Italy. no doubt, some winemakers *are* influenced by Parkers opinions - their choice - but this hardly amounts to the destruction of the Italian industry. Less of the emotional bullshit Michael - stick to what you know! -- st.helier |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"st.helier" > wrote in
: > Of course Parker has had an effect on *some* winemakers practices (and > we can argue the pros and cons of that - as we should!). > > I, myself, have never read Parker - but I have heard that although he > appears to "know" Bordeaux - his opinions on Burgundy are not roundly > supported. > > -- > > st.helier > the "best" effect that parker has had in my life occurred in Tournon, France where I was browsing a wine shop. The owner made reference to a wine highly touted by Parker, I replied that I "don't drink scores, I drink wine" at which point I was introduced to some lovely wines. I can only thank Parker for that. :-) -- Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations http://www.josephcoulter.com/ |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Less of the emotional bullshit Michael - stick to what you know!"
Saint: That would mean the dude would have not a thing to say. As Murray would say--Bupkis. As you know I was part of Parkers apparatus before I entered the business and remember hearing his impressions of the English wine writers which was favorable. I remember when Hugh Johnson was in Baltimore to promote a book, Bob stopped by to say hello. Even then Parker was only a factor in what I chose to buy--the ultimate arbiter was me. "st.helier" > wrote in message ... > "Michael Scarpitti" wrote ...... > > >> > Parker has almost single-handedly destroyed wine making world wide. > >> > > >> > >> What a load of unadulterated crap, Michael. > > > See Tim's post above. > > > > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > > wine-producing regions. > > > So where does that leave *your* comment that Parker has destroyed the > winemaking world? > > I repeat - *you* write rubbish! Why don't you take stock of your thoughts > and write something which is clear and concise and not pure emotional > bullshit. > > I am so glad that I am not forced to listen to you, Michael, because I > guarantee that you are just a raver who loves the sound of your own voice - > vomiting forth the very first thing that comes into your mind, without > giving any cognisance to what you may have said 5 minutes earlier. > > Parker has NOT destroyed anything. > > Italy still makes a lake of "vino ordinario" just as France produces an > ocean of vin ordinaire - nothing to do with Parker. > > Please tell me how Parker has destroyed the Spanish or NZ or South African > or Portuguese or Austrian or Australian or Chilean or Argentine wine making > industries - of what effect he has had on Champagne or Tokaji or Mosel? > > Of course Parker has had an effect on *some* winemakers practices (and we > can argue the pros and cons of that - as we should!). > > I, myself, have never read Parker - but I have heard that although he > appears to "know" Bordeaux - his opinions on Burgundy are not roundly > supported. > > As to Italy. no doubt, some winemakers *are* influenced by Parkers > opinions - their choice - but this hardly amounts to the destruction of the > Italian industry. > > Less of the emotional bullshit Michael - stick to what you know! > > -- > > st.helier > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"uraniumcommittee," just shut the **** up.
Cheers -- Max |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Max Hauser wrote: > "uraniumcommittee," just shut the **** up. Sure. Yeah. Right. > > > Cheers -- Max |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
> wrote in message ups.com... > > Mike Tommasi wrote: >> wrote: >> > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other >> > wine-producing regions. >> >> Sure he has. All over Italy wines are made in the hope of being >> catalogued by the master, and so the style is adjusted accordingly. This >> is truly a shame, often it is now hard to distinguish a Nero d'Avola >> from a Nebbiolo... > > I just picked up a few bottles of Nero d'Avola (ranging from $10-$32) > for a Sicilian dinner party to be held on April 8. We'll open one > Valtellina as well. It will be interesting to see how these compare. > > I'm thinking primarily of the south and the islands. Tuscany, Piedmont, > and the NE, I believe, have been the areas most influenced by Parker. > The south is rather more traditional, I think. Rugged individualism > still reigns supreme. Hardly. Donnafugata and Planeta are Sicilian fans of the "international style" you hate, and famous for it. Aussie winemakers are making a lot of money from your stoic, rustic and quaint southern friends. Check out Apulia for a case in point. Marcello |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Marcello Fabretti wrote: > > wrote in message > ups.com... > > > > Mike Tommasi wrote: > >> wrote: > >> > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > >> > wine-producing regions. > >> > >> Sure he has. All over Italy wines are made in the hope of being > >> catalogued by the master, and so the style is adjusted accordingly. This > >> is truly a shame, often it is now hard to distinguish a Nero d'Avola > >> from a Nebbiolo... > > > > I just picked up a few bottles of Nero d'Avola (ranging from $10-$32) > > for a Sicilian dinner party to be held on April 8. We'll open one > > Valtellina as well. It will be interesting to see how these compare. > > > > I'm thinking primarily of the south and the islands. Tuscany, Piedmont, > > and the NE, I believe, have been the areas most influenced by Parker. > > The south is rather more traditional, I think. Rugged individualism > > still reigns supreme. > > Hardly. Donnafugata and Planeta are Sicilian fans of the "international > style" you hate, and famous for it. Aussie winemakers are making a lot of > money from your stoic, rustic and quaint southern friends. Check out Apulia > for a case in point. > > Marcello Marcello: I doubt that Taurino or Argiolas gives a damn about what Parker thinks... And you can tell everyone in Italy 'Hi' for me, and to stay as far away from Americanizaion of their wines as possible. I want Italian wine, made from idigenous Italian grapes, made in traditional styles, not some 'international' style that is not French, nor American, nor Italian. I want wine that screams where it came from... |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
> skrev i melding oups.com... > > And you can tell everyone in Italy 'Hi' for me, and to stay as far away > from Americanizaion of their wines as possible. I want Italian wine, > made from idigenous Italian grapes, made in traditional styles, not > some 'international' style that is not French, nor American, nor > Italian. I want wine that screams where it came from... > YES! 10% of the time you make sense... Anders |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Anders Tørneskog wrote: > > skrev i melding > oups.com... > > > > And you can tell everyone in Italy 'Hi' for me, and to stay as far away > > from Americanizaion of their wines as possible. I want Italian wine, > > made from idigenous Italian grapes, made in traditional styles, not > > some 'international' style that is not French, nor American, nor > > Italian. I want wine that screams where it came from... > > > YES! > 10% of the time you make sense... > Anders OK, then. Let me hear what you have to say on this topic. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Parker has rarely reviewed Valtellina wines. I believe he likes Sforzato or
Sfursat but I doubt he has reviewed any. In general he finds Valtellina's light and simple. I tried a few times to interest him in the region but unless DeGrazia or LoCascio or Empson bring some into the US both he & the Spectator are not interested. Less Valtellina sold in the US means more for the Swiss & Germans. Most consumers & merchants in the US are looking for testicular nebbiolo and the superior pairing with food of the Valtellina is mostly unknown. When I was selling two Sfursat -- I put the phrase "Sfursat is where its at!" and "Amarone with Attitude" on shelf talkers, much to my chagrin. As far as Sicily and the south are concerned once DeGrazia & LoCascio started tasting Parker on wines from these regions he found they were in his "wheel house". For years the Sicilian wines were sold by Paterno under the CORVO name. Most Italian restaurants from pizza places to places touted by Gourmet magazine carried Corvo almost as an obligatory act. There was a lot of red tape in Italy and the US involved in bringing into the US anything but Corvo and Ciro the other popular brand. Once the two modernists admired by Parker and the Spectator were in demand the BATF finally understood the grapes in Sicilian wine. (If a grape is not on their list--all sorts of testing is required or enological reports from Italian labs used as alternatives). > wrote in message ups.com... > > Mike Tommasi wrote: > > wrote: > > > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > > > wine-producing regions. > > > > Sure he has. All over Italy wines are made in the hope of being > > catalogued by the master, and so the style is adjusted accordingly. This > > is truly a shame, often it is now hard to distinguish a Nero d'Avola > > from a Nebbiolo... > > I just picked up a few bottles of Nero d'Avola (ranging from $10-$32) > for a Sicilian dinner party to be held on April 8. We'll open one > Valtellina as well. It will be interesting to see how these compare. > > I'm thinking primarily of the south and the islands. Tuscany, Piedmont, > and the NE, I believe, have been the areas most influenced by Parker. > The south is rather more traditional, I think. Rugged individualism > still reigns supreme. > > > > > > -- > > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Joe BeppeRosenberg wrote: > Parker has rarely reviewed Valtellina wines. I believe he likes Sforzato or > Sfursat but I doubt he has reviewed any. In general he finds Valtellina's > light and simple. 'Light and simple'? He's crazier than I thought! > I tried a few times to interest him in the region but > unless DeGrazia or LoCascio or Empson bring some into the US both he & the > Spectator are not interested. Less Valtellina sold in the US means more for > the Swiss & Germans. Most consumers & merchants in the US are looking for > testicular nebbiolo and the superior pairing with food of the Valtellina is > mostly unknown. I could say something about imbecilic Americans, but I won't. Ooops... > When I was selling two Sfursat -- I put the phrase "Sfursat is where its > at!" and "Amarone with Attitude" on shelf talkers, much to my chagrin. Grumello. Inferno. Sassella. This is the Valtellina I can get most often: Conti Sertoli Salis > As > far as Sicily and the south are concerned once DeGrazia & LoCascio started > tasting Parker on wines from these regions he found they were in his "wheel > house". For years the Sicilian wines were sold by Paterno under the CORVO > name. Most Italian restaurants from pizza places to places touted by > Gourmet magazine carried Corvo almost as an obligatory act. There was a lot > of red tape in Italy and the US involved in bringing into the US anything > but Corvo and Ciro the other popular brand. Once the two modernists admired > by Parker and the Spectator were in demand the BATF finally understood the > grapes in Sicilian wine. (If a grape is not on their list--all sorts of > testing is required or enological reports from Italian labs used as > alternatives). > > wrote in message > ups.com... > > > > Mike Tommasi wrote: > > > wrote: > > > > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > > > > wine-producing regions. > > > > > > Sure he has. All over Italy wines are made in the hope of being > > > catalogued by the master, and so the style is adjusted accordingly. This > > > is truly a shame, often it is now hard to distinguish a Nero d'Avola > > > from a Nebbiolo... > > > > I just picked up a few bottles of Nero d'Avola (ranging from $10-$32) > > for a Sicilian dinner party to be held on April 8. We'll open one > > Valtellina as well. It will be interesting to see how these compare. > > > > I'm thinking primarily of the south and the islands. Tuscany, Piedmont, > > and the NE, I believe, have been the areas most influenced by Parker. > > The south is rather more traditional, I think. Rugged individualism > > still reigns supreme. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > > > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Joe BeppeRosenberg wrote: > Parker has rarely reviewed Valtellina wines. I believe he likes Sforzato or > Sfursat but I doubt he has reviewed any. In general he finds Valtellina's > light and simple. 'Light and simple'? He's crazier than I thought! > I tried a few times to interest him in the region but > unless DeGrazia or LoCascio or Empson bring some into the US both he & the > Spectator are not interested. Less Valtellina sold in the US means more for > the Swiss & Germans. Most consumers & merchants in the US are looking for > testicular nebbiolo and the superior pairing with food of the Valtellina is > mostly unknown. I could say something about imbecilic Americans, but I won't. Ooops... > When I was selling two Sfursat -- I put the phrase "Sfursat is where its > at!" and "Amarone with Attitude" on shelf talkers, much to my chagrin. Grumello. Inferno. Sassella. This is the Valtellina I can get most often: Conti Sertoli Salis > As > far as Sicily and the south are concerned once DeGrazia & LoCascio started > tasting Parker on wines from these regions he found they were in his "wheel > house". For years the Sicilian wines were sold by Paterno under the CORVO > name. Most Italian restaurants from pizza places to places touted by > Gourmet magazine carried Corvo almost as an obligatory act. There was a lot > of red tape in Italy and the US involved in bringing into the US anything > but Corvo and Ciro the other popular brand. Once the two modernists admired > by Parker and the Spectator were in demand the BATF finally understood the > grapes in Sicilian wine. (If a grape is not on their list--all sorts of > testing is required or enological reports from Italian labs used as > alternatives). That's too bad. > > wrote in message > ups.com... > > > > Mike Tommasi wrote: > > > wrote: > > > > Parker has not influenced some regions of Italy as much as other > > > > wine-producing regions. > > > > > > Sure he has. All over Italy wines are made in the hope of being > > > catalogued by the master, and so the style is adjusted accordingly. This > > > is truly a shame, often it is now hard to distinguish a Nero d'Avola > > > from a Nebbiolo... > > > > I just picked up a few bottles of Nero d'Avola (ranging from $10-$32) > > for a Sicilian dinner party to be held on April 8. We'll open one > > Valtellina as well. It will be interesting to see how these compare. > > > > I'm thinking primarily of the south and the islands. Tuscany, Piedmont, > > and the NE, I believe, have been the areas most influenced by Parker. > > The south is rather more traditional, I think. Rugged individualism > > still reigns supreme. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > > > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail > > |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Yeah, Max, I agree. Lines like "savage counterattack" seem designed to
inflame. Not exactly a journalistic highpoint. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Agreed, Michael. But the reality is that if one tries to separate out
the silly from the supposedly intelligent, it all loops back eventually. He never "behaves" himself. I would take issue with your previous assertion that he might have something to offer re Italian wines. Being able to name comparatively obscure Italian grapes does not make one knowledgable, it means you have a book or a computer program, there are plenty of both. I can't imagine learning anything from anyone who decries everything French and the use of oak, then names as "the epitome of Italian wine" a wine aged in barriques (Allier, Nevers, Troncais) for 12 months. Who decries Parker and internationalization, but then holds up as an example the F*&^ing Gambero Rosso guide (I have pretty broad tastes, but up until last two years the Tuscan and Piedmont sections of GR 3B have read like the de Grazia Brotherhood of Oaky Winemaking -I did see Bartolo Mascarello and Marcarini made the list last year, a hopeful sign). Who holds up Argiolas as an example of anti-Parker wine (Costera sells very well, because it's always at top of Parker's Italian best buys). Who claims that all wines are ruined by any oxygen exposure. Or who claims that Italian winemakers would be insulted to have anyone "taste" their wines (when I have friends who "taste" with Italian winemakers in their home every year). I said I wouldn't , then answered last week. The mistake is worrying that someone might take the lack of response to his silliness as agreement. I shall be stronger from now on. . |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Salut/Hi DaleW,
le/on 27 Mar 2006 12:48:31 -0800, tu disais/you said:- >Agreed, Michael. But the reality is that if one tries to separate out >the silly from the supposedly intelligent, it all loops back >eventually. He never "behaves" himself. Well said. And take that as enthusiatic agreement with the whole of your post. He's a really serious pest on this board, IMO. -- All the Best Ian Hoare http://www.souvigne.com mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Ian Hoare wrote: > Salut/Hi DaleW, > > le/on 27 Mar 2006 12:48:31 -0800, tu disais/you said:- > > >Agreed, Michael. But the reality is that if one tries to separate out > >the silly from the supposedly intelligent, it all loops back > >eventually. He never "behaves" himself. > > Well said. > > And take that as enthusiatic agreement with the whole of your post. > > He's a really serious pest on this board, IMO. So was Socrates.... > > -- > All the Best > Ian Hoare > http://www.souvigne.com > mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Ian Hoare wrote: > Salut/Hi DaleW, > > le/on 27 Mar 2006 12:48:31 -0800, tu disais/you said:- > > >Agreed, Michael. But the reality is that if one tries to separate out > >the silly from the supposedly intelligent, it all loops back > >eventually. He never "behaves" himself. > > Well said. > > And take that as enthusiatic agreement with the whole of your post. > > He's a really serious pest on this board, IMO. So was Socrates.... > > -- > All the Best > Ian Hoare > http://www.souvigne.com > mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
"Mike Tommasi" wrote
> > Being released now in Tuscany, Cicuta DOCG grand cru Maculata 2006 by > Beyondee Sainthood, very long in the mouth, nose of carrot, parsnip, > herbaceous, marshy, earthy, muddy, gravelly, hints of cat pee, dog pee, > dog poo, cat poo, still a little young but promises to age well in a > wooden cask. > Forgive my antipodean ignorance - grapes have just been harvested downunder for 06 vintage - unless I am very sadly mistaken, 06 harvest for northern hemisphere is not for another 6-7 months. Mike, are you now saying that "our friend UC" has got it right, and that I_____ really is ahead of itself as a producer? -- st.helier p.s. Have been in frequent contact with Colin & Sue (freezing their collective butts off in the UK) - we are all agreed - we are coming back to further eat the Tommasi and Hoare families out of house and home - it is just a matter of when! |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
>
> Being released now in Tuscany, Cicuta DOCG grand cru Maculata 2006 by > Beyondee Sainthood, very long in the mouth, nose of carrot, parsnip, > herbaceous, marshy, earthy, muddy, gravelly, hints of cat pee, dog pee, > dog poo, cat poo, still a little young but promises to age well in a > wooden cask. Hey, thats what I had last night, I now have Hobbit feet to prove it. |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Mike Tommasi wrote: > John Taverner wrote: > >>Being released now in Tuscany, Cicuta DOCG grand cru Maculata 2006 by > >>Beyondee Sainthood, very long in the mouth, nose of carrot, parsnip, > >>herbaceous, marshy, earthy, muddy, gravelly, hints of cat pee, dog pee, > >>dog poo, cat poo, still a little young but promises to age well in a > >>wooden cask. > > > > > > Hey, thats what I had last night, I now have Hobbit feet to prove it. > > Yeah, Chateau Hemmme Loque, appellation Med Doc, must be all the SO2 > they put in it... That was good, Mr Tommasi... > > -- > Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
Parker---Targeted and misunderstood
Mike Tommasi wrote:
> BTW, interesting information, the root of cicuta maculata is shaped like > a carrot. FWIW, I think that scholars have judged it more likely that conium maculata was used as a state poison by the ancient Greeks. And the shape of the root should come as no surprise: the flowers and leaves of conium m. look very close to those of carrots and Queen Anne's Lace. I found this out last year while in Berkeley when we chanced upon some conium growing wild in a nearby park. In fact, if it weren't for the purple spots on the stems... Mark Lipton |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:05 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FoodBanter