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Old 09-03-2006, 10:54 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.


I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
asked the following question.

What happens to sugar levels of (aussie) Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
to sugar levels ?

I waxed lyrical about the afw forum, and the expertise of the wine
folks, including chemists et al, and assured her the answer was
probably simple, and I knew a source to gain the answer.
I am sure the answer is either simple or I will be asked what type of
cooking... :)

TIA

Regards Swooper

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Old 09-03-2006, 12:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.


"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
Matt S wrote:
I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
asked the following question. What happens to sugar levels of (aussie)
Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
to sugar levels ?



Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not evaporate),
it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout the various
processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction, etc.) the
concentration will change accordingly.


Except
a) Fermentaion - but that seems unlikely unless they are making bread, for
example
b) Caramelisation - possible


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Old 09-03-2006, 01:31 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi wrote in
:

b) Caramelisation - possible


Would there be a change in the sugar content, unless you go too far
and burn it? True when you make caramel those sugar vapours really get
up your nose, but is the volume lost significant?


A few years ago, I wanted to do a Pedro Ximenez sauce and tried to do it by
using a saucepan and heating it. I did it slowly and all things were great
until it started to boil. I got a thick caramel and ruined the teflon
coated saucepan (and it was not an el-cheapo saucepan).

With time, I have learnt to do it even more slowly and not allowing it to
boil. The water evaporates and the PX thickens. It does not taste like
burnt rubber and I can re-utilize the saucepan. It goes great both with
desserts and meats.

S.
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Old 09-03-2006, 01:57 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi wrote in
:

Hey Santiago

this sounds like it would apply magnificently to magret de canard or,
used sparingly, with quickly pan fried duck foie gras.


True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on the plate,
because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same time. Do not do it
with Venerable, please (though I have done it) ;-)

S.

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Old 09-03-2006, 02:17 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Santiago wrote:

True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on
the plate, because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same
time. Do not do it with Venerable, please (though I have done
it) ;-)


That reminds me of a confession of Bartholomew Broandbent on the
Parker Forum. He once used one whole bottle of his 10 Y.O. Madeira
to make a sauce for one steak.

M.


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Old 09-03-2006, 03:20 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi wrote:

Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not
evaporate), it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout
the various processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction,
etc.) the concentration will change accordingly.


What's likely to happen to some of the sugar is the Maillard reaction,
the process that's responsible for the browning of bread and other tasty
events. It's also responsible for the brown color of caramelized sugar.
However, a sweet wine has enough sugar that I suspect only a fraction
will be consumed in the Maillard reaction.

Mark Lipton
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Old 09-03-2006, 03:27 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

On 9 Mar 2006 13:57:13 +0100, Santiago wrote:

Mike Tommasi wrote in
:

Hey Santiago

this sounds like it would apply magnificently to magret de canard or,
used sparingly, with quickly pan fried duck foie gras.


True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on the plate,
because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same time. Do not do it
with Venerable, please (though I have done it) ;-)

S.

You have simultaneously made me very envious and made my mouth water.

I'm still hunting the various metro-area wine/liquor options N. of
Dallas and have yet to find a source for Spanish brandies. The
combination of arcane liquor laws, complex merging of "cities" into a
huge entity called "Dallas" and a lack of time to go driving all over
the state hunting booze palaces is making life difficult. Eventually
it will all sort out.

Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...

Ohh, and some properly quick fried foie gras.

BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
malapropism?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
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Old 09-03-2006, 03:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...


Cardenal Mendoza

M.
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Old 09-03-2006, 04:11 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:52:32 +0100, Michael Pronay
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...


Cardenal Mendoza

M.

Si. Muchismas Gracias.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
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Old 09-03-2006, 04:21 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 9 Mar 2006 13:57:13 +0100, Santiago wrote:


BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
malapropism?


Duck or goose "fatty liver"




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Old 09-03-2006, 04:45 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Cardenal Mendoza


Si. Muchismas Gracias.


°De nada!

M.
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Old 09-03-2006, 09:31 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

"Anders TÝrneskog" wrote in
:


"Ed Rasimus" skrev i melding
...

BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
malapropism?

Duck? Thought it used to be goose. When I read "fois gras" I think
of geese in Alsace, but, of course, you can have the liver from ducks
and then will have to call it "fois gras de canard" or something like
that. Hello Ian, you there?
Anders




Sounds right to me, I like fois gras de canard, but the real deal well .
.. . break out the Champagne. or Vouvray.

--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

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Old 09-03-2006, 11:00 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Michael Pronay wrote in
:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Cardenal Mendoza


Si. Muchismas Gracias.


°De nada!

M.


It is really nice to see an Austrian and an American contributing in
Spanish to this forum ;-)

Saludos,

S.
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:11 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:10:07 +0100, Mike Tommasi
wrote:

Bill Davy wrote:
"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...

Matt S wrote:

I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
asked the following question. What happens to sugar levels of (aussie)
Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
to sugar levels ?



Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not evaporate),
it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout the various
processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction, etc.) the
concentration will change accordingly.



Except
a) Fermentaion - but that seems unlikely unless they are making bread, for
example


Correct

b) Caramelisation - possible


Would there be a change in the sugar content, unless you go too far and
burn it? True when you make caramel those sugar vapours really get up
your nose, but is the volume lost significant?


Thanks Mike & Bill, I knew afw would hold the answers...:)

hooroo.....
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:17 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Salut/Hi Anders TÝrneskog,

le/on Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:20:14 +0100, tu disais/you said:-


BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
malapropism?


To be pedantic, it's simply wrong!!

Duck? Thought it used to be goose.


Goose is more traditional because you get more liver for your bird. However
duck liver is becoming more and more popular, though that's mainly in south
west France. I think that Alsace still fattens more geese than ducks, but
I'd not want to be quoted on that.

geese in Alsace, but, of course, you can have the liver from ducks and then
will have to call it "fois gras de canard" or something like that. Hello
Ian, you there?


Fois no. Foie yes.

So either fattened duck or goose liver or else foie gras de canard and foie
gras d'oie. But I beg you, not duck foir or goose fois! (Just me being a
pedant) If you want however, you could call it Libamaj (which is hungarian
for fattened goose liver) which is where quite a lot of foie gras d'oie is
actually fattened.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website


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