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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.


I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
asked the following question.

What happens to sugar levels of (aussie) Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
to sugar levels ?

I waxed lyrical about the afw forum, and the expertise of the wine
folks, including chemists et al, and assured her the answer was
probably simple, and I knew a source to gain the answer.
I am sure the answer is either simple or I will be asked what type of
cooking... :>)

TIA

Regards Swooper
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"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Matt S wrote:
>> I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
>> asked the following question. What happens to sugar levels of (aussie)
>> Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
>> used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
>> to sugar levels ?


>
> Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not evaporate),
> it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout the various
> processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction, etc.) the
> concentration will change accordingly.


Except
a) Fermentaion - but that seems unlikely unless they are making bread, for
example
b) Caramelisation - possible


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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:
>
>> b) Caramelisation - possible

>
> Would there be a change in the sugar content, unless you go too far
> and burn it? True when you make caramel those sugar vapours really get
> up your nose, but is the volume lost significant?


A few years ago, I wanted to do a Pedro Ximenez sauce and tried to do it by
using a saucepan and heating it. I did it slowly and all things were great
until it started to boil. I got a thick caramel and ruined the teflon
coated saucepan (and it was not an el-cheapo saucepan).

With time, I have learnt to do it even more slowly and not allowing it to
boil. The water evaporates and the PX thickens. It does not taste like
burnt rubber and I can re-utilize the saucepan. It goes great both with
desserts and meats.

S.
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:
>
> Hey Santiago
>
> this sounds like it would apply magnificently to magret de canard or,
> used sparingly, with quickly pan fried duck foie gras.


True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on the plate,
because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same time. Do not do it
with Venerable, please (though I have done it) ;-)

S.

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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Santiago > wrote:

> True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on
> the plate, because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same
> time. Do not do it with Venerable, please (though I have done
> it) ;-)


That reminds me of a confession of Bartholomew Broandbent on the
Parker Forum. He once used one whole bottle of his 10 Y.O. Madeira
to make a sauce for one steak.

M.


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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Mike Tommasi wrote:

> Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not
> evaporate), it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout
> the various processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction,
> etc.) the concentration will change accordingly.


What's likely to happen to some of the sugar is the Maillard reaction,
the process that's responsible for the browning of bread and other tasty
events. It's also responsible for the brown color of caramelized sugar.
However, a sweet wine has enough sugar that I suspect only a fraction
will be consumed in the Maillard reaction.

Mark Lipton
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On 9 Mar 2006 13:57:13 +0100, Santiago > wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:
>>
>> Hey Santiago
>>
>> this sounds like it would apply magnificently to magret de canard or,
>> used sparingly, with quickly pan fried duck foie gras.

>
>True, providing you do not over-sauce. Just a little thread on the plate,
>because the sauce is both sweet and acid at the same time. Do not do it
>with Venerable, please (though I have done it) ;-)
>
>S.

You have simultaneously made me very envious and made my mouth water.

I'm still hunting the various metro-area wine/liquor options N. of
Dallas and have yet to find a source for Spanish brandies. The
combination of arcane liquor laws, complex merging of "cities" into a
huge entity called "Dallas" and a lack of time to go driving all over
the state hunting booze palaces is making life difficult. Eventually
it will all sort out.

Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...

Ohh, and some properly quick fried foie gras.

BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
malapropism?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Ed Rasimus > wrote:

> Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...


Cardenal Mendoza

M.
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On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:52:32 +0100, Michael Pronay >
wrote:

>Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>
>> Ahh, for some every-day Cardenal Mendez...

>
> Cardenal Mendoza
>
>M.

Si. Muchismas Gracias.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
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"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Mar 2006 13:57:13 +0100, Santiago > wrote:


> BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
> malapropism?
>


Duck or goose "fatty liver"




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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Ed Rasimus > wrote:

>> Cardenal Mendoza


> Si. Muchismas Gracias.


¡De nada!

M.
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"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in
:

>
> "Ed Rasimus" > skrev i melding
> ...
>>
>> BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
>> malapropism?
>>

> Duck? Thought it used to be goose. When I read "fois gras" I think
> of geese in Alsace, but, of course, you can have the liver from ducks
> and then will have to call it "fois gras de canard" or something like
> that. Hello Ian, you there?
> Anders
>
>
>


Sounds right to me, I like fois gras de canard, but the real deal well .
.. . break out the Champagne. or Vouvray.

--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Michael Pronay > wrote in
:

> Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>
>>> Cardenal Mendoza

>
>> Si. Muchismas Gracias.

>
> ¡De nada!
>
> M.


It is really nice to see an Austrian and an American contributing in
Spanish to this forum ;-)

Saludos,

S.
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:10:07 +0100, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>Bill Davy wrote:
>> "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Matt S wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have been asked a question by a culinary talented customer, who has
>>>>asked the following question. What happens to sugar levels of (aussie)
>>>>Muscats, Ports & Tokays when
>>>>used in cooking. Whilst we know the alcohol is removed, what happens
>>>>to sugar levels ?

>>
>>
>>>Sugar content remains unchanged in absolute terms (it does not evaporate),
>>>it adds to whatever sugar was already there, and throughout the various
>>>processes (dilution with stock or other liquids, reduction, etc.) the
>>>concentration will change accordingly.

>>
>>
>> Except
>> a) Fermentaion - but that seems unlikely unless they are making bread, for
>> example

>
>Correct
>
>> b) Caramelisation - possible

>
>Would there be a change in the sugar content, unless you go too far and
>burn it? True when you make caramel those sugar vapours really get up
>your nose, but is the volume lost significant?


Thanks Mike & Bill, I knew afw would hold the answers...:>)

hooroo.....
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Default Question re cooking & sugar levels.

Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,

le/on Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:20:14 +0100, tu disais/you said:-


>> BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
>> malapropism?


To be pedantic, it's simply wrong!!

>Duck? Thought it used to be goose.


Goose is more traditional because you get more liver for your bird. However
duck liver is becoming more and more popular, though that's mainly in south
west France. I think that Alsace still fattens more geese than ducks, but
I'd not want to be quoted on that.

>geese in Alsace, but, of course, you can have the liver from ducks and then
>will have to call it "fois gras de canard" or something like that. Hello
>Ian, you there?


Fois no. Foie yes.

So either fattened duck or goose liver or else foie gras de canard and foie
gras d'oie. But I beg you, not duck foir or goose fois! (Just me being a
pedant) If you want however, you could call it Libamaj (which is hungarian
for fattened goose liver) which is where quite a lot of foie gras d'oie is
actually fattened.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website


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Santiago > wrote:

>>>> Cardenal Mendoza


>>> Si. Muchismas Gracias.


>> ¡De nada!


> It is really nice to see an Austrian and an American
> contributing in Spanish to this forum ;-)


Ma certo, siamo un grupo internazionale!

M.
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:17:03 +0100, Ian Hoare >
wrote:

>Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,
>
> le/on Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:20:14 +0100, tu disais/you said:-
>
>
>>> BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
>>> malapropism?

>
>To be pedantic, it's simply wrong!!
>
>>Duck? Thought it used to be goose.

>
>Goose is more traditional because you get more liver for your bird. However
>duck liver is becoming more and more popular, though that's mainly in south
>west France. I think that Alsace still fattens more geese than ducks, but
>I'd not want to be quoted on that.
>
>>geese in Alsace, but, of course, you can have the liver from ducks and then
>>will have to call it "fois gras de canard" or something like that. Hello
>>Ian, you there?

>
>Fois no. Foie yes.
>
>So either fattened duck or goose liver or else foie gras de canard and foie
>gras d'oie. But I beg you, not duck foir or goose fois! (Just me being a
>pedant) If you want however, you could call it Libamaj (which is hungarian
>for fattened goose liver) which is where quite a lot of foie gras d'oie is
>actually fattened.


Having been a bit of a pedant myself, I accept the wealth of
information about poultry organs offered here. And, note with regret
that two of our members (me being the first) have fat-fingered the
"Foie" to "Fois" and "Foir" which wasn't fair but foolish flailing far
to fastly for friends and foes. Say that quickly five times lather,
rinse, repeat.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
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Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:18:14 +0100, tu disais/you said:-
>>
>> So either fattened duck or goose liver or else foie gras de canard and foie
>> gras d'oie. But I beg you, not duck foir or goose fois! (Just me being a
>> pedant) If you want however, you could call it Libamaj (which is hungarian
>> for fattened goose liver) which is where quite a lot of foie gras d'oie is
>> actually fattened.

>
>To be pedantic, it is the oie that gets fattened, not the foie ;-)
>
>Cheers Ian, just kidding...


Oh pooh!! to you.

But cogitate a moment. Where does some 500gms of that fat go?

So I'd argue that if the oie gets gavé the foie gets gras!

Nyah.

ATB
Ian

--
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Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:17:03 +0100, Ian Hoare >
> wrote:
>
>>Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,
>>
>> le/on Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:20:14 +0100, tu disais/you said:-
>>
>>
>>>> BTW, isn't "duck foir gras" some sort of oxymoron? Or maybe that's a
>>>> malapropism?

>>


BTW I think there is some French pun about a "crisis of faith" sounding the
same as a "crisis of the liver", so we know where the French soul is to be
found (which would have saved Descartes some time).


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For the less well-versed in these subjects, please explain the PX
sauce-making process in a bit more detail, for example, are you
deglazing?

Have you used a stainless-steel pan?

Also, do you add any other ingredients or stock or is it just 100% PX.

Thanks.

On 9 Mar 2006 13:31:38 +0100, Santiago > wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:
>>
>>> b) Caramelisation - possible

>>
>> Would there be a change in the sugar content, unless you go too far
>> and burn it? True when you make caramel those sugar vapours really get
>> up your nose, but is the volume lost significant?

>
>A few years ago, I wanted to do a Pedro Ximenez sauce and tried to do it by
>using a saucepan and heating it. I did it slowly and all things were great
>until it started to boil. I got a thick caramel and ruined the teflon
>coated saucepan (and it was not an el-cheapo saucepan).
>
>With time, I have learnt to do it even more slowly and not allowing it to
>boil. The water evaporates and the PX thickens. It does not taste like
>burnt rubber and I can re-utilize the saucepan. It goes great both with
>desserts and meats.
>
>S.


--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================


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Leo Bueno > wrote in
:

>
> For the less well-versed in these subjects, please explain the PX
> sauce-making process in a bit more detail, for example, are you
> deglazing?
>
> Have you used a stainless-steel pan?
>
> Also, do you add any other ingredients or stock or is it just 100% PX.
>
> Thanks.


Leo,

No, I do not deglaze when doing this PX sauce, but I think you could do. No
stock either. I just pour a glass of PX in a teflon coated saucepan and
raise the heat slowly (very slowly). Let it reduce a bit and consider than
when it cools down it will thicken. If you overcook it will even
cristalize. Depending on the amount of PX, the size of the saucepan and the
temperature, you can get it in 1 minute (for a very small amount of wine in
a rather large saucepan) or 5-10 minutes for 125ml (1/6th of a 0,75 bottle)
in a medium saucepan.

I am sorry I am not being of great help, I guess the better you can do is
try and see. Just do not let it boil and you are quite safe.

Best,

S.
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