"Organoleptically challenged Swede goes on a rant"-WARNING
 

Hell;
Several months ago, somebody, very politely, asked what he should do to
avoid, at a formal tasting, appear (as I think his words were chosen) "not
appear a peasant". Good advice was given, and less good. References were
made to a FAQ, etc.
Friday, self and Xina went to a formal tasting in the tastevins Society -
first for the autumn, theme was South Americans (6 wines tasted blind and
one with the meal, one from Uruguay, two from Argentine, the rest from
Chile). Self had a head cold, and after frantically trying to find any
redeeming qualities in an Uruguay tannat (I didn´t find any), quietly gave
up - more or less. This is when the cause for my rant starts narking me. I
take a wiff from glass number two - I smell musk, heliotrope, and Chanel no
5. I swirl it - the same aromas fill my, admittedly incapacitated, nostrils
[1]. I try to shield my poor proboscis with the left hand - impossible, the
Perfumes from Hell are still there, like Furies out to get the poor mortal
stricken with hubris ...
And so it goes. I smell, vaguely, eucalyptus and thyme, and distinctly the
fragrancies from several well-known perfume producers.
I do not believe that peasants, as a rule, douse themselves with such costly
ungents from the Orient and adjacents territories - after all, the guys I
buy my wine from tend to _be_ peasants (in a sense)[2], and they never smell
like this in their tasting rooms.
Dear brethren, and sistren, perfumes (male or female) should be outlawed
during tasting sessions. Surely it is enough to be clean?

Do I hear dissenting voices?

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

[1] Anatomically, strictly speaking, the odour sensitive organs are not
located in the nostrils.
[2] Calling Mme Veronique Boss-Drouhin, or Baronesse Philippine Rotschild, a
peasant would indeed be stretching the phrase, not to mention bordering on
the less-than-courteous


--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

In ,
Nils Gustaf Lindgren > typed:

> Dear brethren, and sistren, perfumes (male or female) should be
> outlawed during tasting sessions. Surely it is enough to be
> clean?


And in restaurants.

I've more than once asked to have my table moved in a restaurant
because someone at a nearby table was wearing so much perfume
that I could hardly tell what I was drinking or eating.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

In article >, nils.
says...
>
>Hell;
>Several months ago, somebody, very politely, asked what he should do to
>avoid, at a formal tasting, appear (as I think his words were chosen) "not
>appear a peasant". Good advice was given, and less good. References were
>made to a FAQ, etc.
>Friday, self and Xina went to a formal tasting in the tastevins Society -
>first for the autumn, theme was South Americans (6 wines tasted blind and
>one with the meal, one from Uruguay, two from Argentine, the rest from
>Chile). Self had a head cold, and after frantically trying to find any
>redeeming qualities in an Uruguay tannat (I didn´t find any), quietly gave
>up - more or less. This is when the cause for my rant starts narking me. I
>take a wiff from glass number two - I smell musk, heliotrope, and Chanel no
>5. I swirl it - the same aromas fill my, admittedly incapacitated, nostrils
>[1]. I try to shield my poor proboscis with the left hand - impossible, the
>Perfumes from Hell are still there, like Furies out to get the poor mortal
>stricken with hubris ...
>And so it goes. I smell, vaguely, eucalyptus and thyme, and distinctly the
>fragrancies from several well-known perfume producers.
>I do not believe that peasants, as a rule, douse themselves with such costly
>ungents from the Orient and adjacents territories - after all, the guys I
>buy my wine from tend to _be_ peasants (in a sense)[2], and they never smell
>like this in their tasting rooms.
>Dear brethren, and sistren, perfumes (male or female) should be outlawed
>during tasting sessions. Surely it is enough to be clean?
>
>Do I hear dissenting voices?
>
>Cheers
>
>Nils Gustaf
>
>[1] Anatomically, strictly speaking, the odour sensitive organs are not
>located in the nostrils.
>[2] Calling Mme Veronique Boss-Drouhin, or Baronesse Philippine Rotschild, a
>peasant would indeed be stretching the phrase, not to mention bordering on
>the less-than-courteous

Nils,

I am with you 100% on this one. We did a whole series of wine dinners at a
very nice restaurant two years ago. One attendee bathed in a very strong
scent, and it was impossible to escape her odors anyplace in a rather large
room. Once we were seated with her, and it was all that I could do, just to
breath. Tasting great Burgs and Bdx were totally impossible, and much of the
food was tainted with the aroma.

We changed our season tickets for the symphony, because of a lady, who
occupied the seats in front of us. My wife and I would leave with headaches,
and not from the musical selections.

I almost feel that there should be a de-contamination unit outside the door
for any serious tasting.

Hunt

Nils,
Indeed, perfumed individuals are the bane of tastings and restaurants
(though less so than smokers, but they are rare in such settings
nowadays). I have on more than one occasions reseated myself (when
possible) at a tasting to escape some particularly odoriferous
individual (or, worse, a *table* of them). San Francisco, I believe,
passed a law some years ago that banned the use of excessive perfume in
public spaces -- a law that has been assailed as "political correctness"
run amok, but which had particularly salutary effects on air quality in
elevators and other closed spaces [1].

Mark Lipton

[1] The actual pretext for the law was to protect those individuals with
allergies to perfumes, which does smack of the tail wagging the dog, but
I'd bet that the SF wine drinkers were overwhelming in favor of it for
altogether different reasons.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:58:43 GMT, Mark Lipton > said:

[]
] individual (or, worse, a *table* of them). San Francisco, I believe,
] passed a law some years ago that banned the use of excessive perfume in
] public spaces -- a law that has been assailed as "political correctness"
] run amok, but which had particularly salutary effects on air quality in
] elevators and other closed spaces [1].
]

Yes, I was going to mention the SF law. Indeed the perfume is a
problem for serious tasting -- I love Hunt's decontamination stations,
I can kinda picture hosing off a Baroness or two! -- but I do feel making
a law about it is going too far! :)

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Salut/Hi Nils Gustaf Lindgren,

le/on Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:03:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Hell;

>Dear brethren, and sistren, perfumes (male or female) should be outlawed
>during tasting sessions. Surely it is enough to be clean?

>Do I hear dissenting voices?

Not from me you don't. I remember once having the embarassing duty of asking
Jacquie (SWMBO, and a redoubtable person who has withstood me for 37 years)
to wash some flthy muck off her neck before she polluted the entire room.

Since then, we have a strict rule when wine tasting. "No stink stuff".

Mind you, an even worse solecism occurred once (many years ago) at a trade
wine tasting in London. M Caze had done us the honour of bringing a 30 year
vertical of Ch Lynch Bages, and was talking us through it, when I noticed,
to my astonishment that the '66 had a very strong scent of cigar smoke.
Removing my nose from my glass, I rapidly discovered that the odour (very
pleasant in itself, but utterly incompatible with wine) came from the large
stogie of the (somewhat larger) "gentleman" about 5 yards from me. I was
amazed to note that no-one else had said anything, so I took it upon myself
(I'm not noted for my "British" reserve) to ask the gentleman (fairly
politely, in fact) if he would have the courtesy to extinguish his cigar. I
was stupefied to be addressed in accents that were both broadly american and
intransigently offensive, to the effect that he enjoyed smoking his cigar
and no damn limey was going to stop him. Well this damn limey did stop him.
After pointing out that his stinking weed destroyed any possibility of
smelling the subtleties of the wine, that he weas being grossly discourteous
to M Cazes in smoking during such an important tasting, and pointing out
that at apporoximately 10 yard intervals, large signs saying "No Smoking"
were to be found, I had him ejected by the staff.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

In message >
Ian Hoare > wrote:

> Salut/Hi Nils Gustaf Lindgren,
>
> le/on Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:03:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
>>Hell;
>
>>Dear brethren, and sistren, perfumes (male or female) should be outlawed
>>during tasting sessions. Surely it is enough to be clean?
>
>>Do I hear dissenting voices?
>
> Not from me you don't. I remember once having the embarassing duty of asking
> Jacquie (SWMBO, and a redoubtable person who has withstood me for 37 years)
> to wash some flthy muck off her neck before she polluted the entire room.
>
> Since then, we have a strict rule when wine tasting. "No stink stuff".
>
> Mind you, an even worse solecism occurred once (many years ago) at a trade
> wine tasting in London. M Caze had done us the honour of bringing a 30 year
> vertical of Ch Lynch Bages, and was talking us through it, when I noticed,
> to my astonishment that the '66 had a very strong scent of cigar smoke.
> Removing my nose from my glass, I rapidly discovered that the odour (very
> pleasant in itself, but utterly incompatible with wine) came from the large
> stogie of the (somewhat larger) "gentleman" about 5 yards from me. I was
> amazed to note that no-one else had said anything, so I took it upon myself
> (I'm not noted for my "British" reserve) to ask the gentleman (fairly
> politely, in fact) if he would have the courtesy to extinguish his cigar. I
> was stupefied to be addressed in accents that were both broadly american and
> intransigently offensive, to the effect that he enjoyed smoking his cigar
> and no damn limey was going to stop him. Well this damn limey did stop him.
> After pointing out that his stinking weed destroyed any possibility of
> smelling the subtleties of the wine, that he weas being grossly discourteous
> to M Cazes in smoking during such an important tasting, and pointing out
> that at apporoximately 10 yard intervals, large signs saying "No Smoking"
> were to be found, I had him ejected by the staff.
>
Like you I fear that I do not put up with such behaviour peacefully —
especially when fellow guests behave like this.
I remember that I had to ask a number of English ”Hooray Henries” -
and a Henrietta — whether they had stopped trying to signal the
election of a Pope during a dinner at Ch. Angelus on the night they
learned they had been promoted in the 1996 revision. I am pleased to
say that at least they took the hint, but they ought to have put their
joint brain cell to use and known better in the first place.
Similarly I had to quieten a somewhat rowdy ball crowd when a group of
Army Fifes and Drums — no doubt ordered to attend and unable to do
anythign about it themselves — were trying to play and nobody had the
courtesy to listen. Some complain about the very young but my own -
senior middle-aged — age group‘s manners are often no better than they
should be as my grandmother would have said.


Timothy Hartley

Ian Hoare > wrote:

> ... I had him ejected by the staff.

<clapclapclap!>

M.

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:

> Friday, self and Xina went to a formal tasting in the tastevins Society -
> first for the autumn, theme was South Americans (6 wines tasted blind and
> one with the meal, one from Uruguay, two from Argentine, the rest from
> Chile). Self had a head cold, and after frantically trying to find any
> redeeming qualities in an Uruguay tannat (I didn´t find any), quietly gave
> up - more or less.

Nils, this brings to mind a question: did you take any medication before
going? I've had the misfortune of once coming down with a head cold
just before a wine tasting, and coped with this by doping myself with
pseudoephedrine (a nasal decongestant) before going. Although I could
breath freely through my nose, I found that my sense of smell was
*severely* compromised, presumably by the pseudoephedrine. Since that
time, I've just cut my losses and stayed away.

Mark Lipton

In article >, says
....
>
>Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>
>> Friday, self and Xina went to a formal tasting in the tastevins Society -
>> first for the autumn, theme was South Americans (6 wines tasted blind and
>> one with the meal, one from Uruguay, two from Argentine, the rest from
>> Chile). Self had a head cold, and after frantically trying to find any
>> redeeming qualities in an Uruguay tannat (I didn´t find any), quietly gave
>> up - more or less.
>
>Nils, this brings to mind a question: did you take any medication before
>going? I've had the misfortune of once coming down with a head cold
>just before a wine tasting, and coped with this by doping myself with
>pseudoephedrine (a nasal decongestant) before going. Although I could
>breath freely through my nose, I found that my sense of smell was
>*severely* compromised, presumably by the pseudoephedrine. Since that
>time, I've just cut my losses and stayed away.
>
>Mark Lipton

On a somewhat similar note, I loose all ability to taste (don't think it
affected the "smeller" much) if I have taken any remedy containing zinc. I
would also imagine that other products/substances can wreck havoc on one's
senses.

Kinda' like "approving" the wine for the table, when one has JUST brushed
their teeth. Maybe I can invent a wine-friendly toothpaste...

Hunt

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>
<...> Nils, this brings to mind a question: did you take any medication
before
> going? I've had the misfortune of once coming down with a head cold just
> before a wine tasting, and coped with this by doping myself with
> pseudoephedrine (a nasal decongestant) before going. Although I could
> breath freely through my nose, I found that my sense of smell was
> *severely* compromised, presumably by the pseudoephedrine. Since that
> time, I've just cut my losses and stayed away.


No, I did not. I try to avoid that kind of medication as much as possible -
I find them by and large useless (and I´ve had my days in the ENT emergency
room, let me tell you! I wasn´t ALWAYS a psychiatrist).
Just sit and let it pass, very few people actually die from head colds,
that´s why we cannot cure them ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf


--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:

> No, I did not. I try to avoid that kind of medication as much as possible -
> I find them by and large useless (and I´ve had my days in the ENT emergency
> room, let me tell you! I wasn´t ALWAYS a psychiatrist).
> Just sit and let it pass, very few people actually die from head colds,
> that´s why we cannot cure them ...

I agree (and I consult for the pharmaceutical industry!). I rarely take
any non-prescription medication, but I did in the instance mentioned
because I knew that I would smell nothing with a congested nose. My
usual philosophy is that fevers and related symptoms actually help
combat the infection, so if it won't harm me to just weather the symptoms.

Mark Lipton

Although too much perfume can be a problem, many other things are just
as much a problem for me. In most states in the US now there are
restrictions concerning smoking in restaurants and many other public
places, so smoking is not the problem it once was.

I find strong smelling, very ripe cheeses more of a distraction than
most perfumes, in moderation. I believe Hunt mentioned brushing teeth
soon before the tasting. Many US toothpastes are loaded with mint and
other things to perfume the breath, and the effects of these can linger
quite a while. Plain baking soda works fairly well if one must brush
teeth before tasting wine, or even very good food for that matter. Other
distractions of a lesser degree are cooking odors from a kitchen,
especially if fish or garlic has just been cooked. I also have more
trouble smelling wine this time of the year when there is much pollen in
the air from ragweed, etc. This is somewhat like the problem with a head
cold, although less severe.

Reply to .

In article >,
says...
>
>
[SNIP]
>
>I find strong smelling, very ripe cheeses more of a distraction than
>most perfumes, in moderation. I believe Hunt mentioned brushing teeth
>soon before the tasting. Many US toothpastes are loaded with mint and
>other things to perfume the breath, and the effects of these can linger
>quite a while. Plain baking soda works fairly well if one must brush
>teeth before tasting wine, or even very good food for that matter. Other
>distractions of a lesser degree are cooking odors from a kitchen,
>especially if fish or garlic has just been cooked. I also have more
>trouble smelling wine this time of the year when there is much pollen in
>the air from ragweed, etc. This is somewhat like the problem with a head
>cold, although less severe.
>
>Reply to

Yes, yes, food odors from the kitchen! We dined at a new local spot twice, and
both times, due to either a faulty, or inadequate vent hood, the aromas of
garlic, fish, and onion (I added this one to your list), filled the dining
area. Our food, and our wines were overcome by the smells. This establishment
has gotten many rave reviews, and I've had many tell me how wonderful it is.
We have not been back, but until I feel that they have done something about
the vent hood, we shall stay away.

Now I like fish, onions, and love garlic, but these are aromas, that I do not
find pleasant in my wine!

Thanks for mentioning this,
Hunt
>

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>
>> Friday, self and Xina went to a formal tasting in the tastevins Society -
>> first for the autumn, theme was South Americans (6 wines tasted blind and
>> one with the meal, one from Uruguay, two from Argentine, the rest from
>> Chile). Self had a head cold, and after frantically trying to find any
>> redeeming qualities in an Uruguay tannat (I didn´t find any), quietly
>> gave up - more or less.
>
> Nils, this brings to mind a question: did you take any medication before
> going? I've had the misfortune of once coming down with a head cold just
> before a wine tasting, and coped with this by doping myself with
> pseudoephedrine (a nasal decongestant) before going. Although I could
> breath freely through my nose, I found that my sense of smell was
> *severely* compromised, presumably by the pseudoephedrine. Since that
> time, I've just cut my losses and stayed away.
>
> Mark Lipton

My doctor is one of the breed that doesn't believe in madly prescribing, so
when she says, "Take this" I generally do. She recommends flunisolide for
nasal irritation allergies, and says that it helps her severely congested
cold patients without affecting the sense of smell much. It can interact
with a number of other medications, though.

"cutecat" > skrev i meddelandet
ink.net...
>
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>>
<...>
> My doctor is one of the breed that doesn't believe in madly prescribing,
> so when she says, "Take this" I generally do. She recommends flunisolide
> for nasal irritation allergies, and says that it helps her severely
> congested cold patients without affecting the sense of smell much. It can
> interact with a number of other medications, though.


Flunisolide - would that be a corticosteroid? I remeber (once more, in the
ENT emergency room) a guy who worked as a flavor tester with a tobacco
company (dig this - he did not smoke himself!) who had aproblem with
vasomotric rhinitis which was detrimental to his work - he used, if I
remember correctly, a a corticostertoid as nasal inhalant to alleviate those
problems and get on with his day.

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

Nils states:

"Flunisolide - would that be a corticosteroid? I remeber (once more, in
the ENT emergency room) a guy who worked as a flavor tester with a
tobacco company (dig this - he did not smoke himself!) who had aproblem
with vasomotric rhinitis which was detrimental to his work - he used, if
I remember correctly, a a corticostertoid as nasal inhalant to alleviate
those problems and get on with his day."

I found you some information in a rather outdated 1996 Physicians' Desk
Reference. that describes most of the drugs used in the US.

Flunisolide is an anti-inflammatory steriod having the chemical name
6a-fluoro-11b, 16a, 17, 21-tetrahydroxypregna-1, 4-diene-3, 20-dione
cyclic-16, 17-acetal with acetone. Now if you want to have some fun
with a pharmacist, write a prescription for it using the full official
chemical name.

Reply to .

Salut/Hi Timothy Hartley,

le/on Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:54:51 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

>> that at apporoximately 10 yard intervals, large signs saying "No Smoking"
>> were to be found, I had him ejected by the staff.
>>
>Like you I fear that I do not put up with such behaviour peacefully €”
>especially when fellow guests behave like this.

I'm glad to hear it.

>I remember that I had to ask a number of English €�Hooray Henries€� -
>and a Henrietta

Ah.... there is some question as to whether the members of said species
possess reasoning capacity. On my (all too frequent) contacts with them, I
have to say that my personal jury is "out" on the decision. I remember to
this day, one of the species turning to my wife in the middle of an
excessively expensive tasting that my brother had put on, and saying "What
should I think about this wine?" I think it was asked of a Ch Pétrus.

>say that at least they took the hint, but they ought to have put their
>joint brain cell to use and known better in the first place.

That implies the possession of a shared cell, the ability to reason with it
and some form of intelligible communication. "Wah wah y'know" doesn't really
count.

>Similarly I had to quieten
[snip]

> were trying to play and nobody had the courtesy to listen.

That's a thing I feel VERY unhappy about. I'm not a great fan of "live
entertainment" in eating places, but if one has them, then I think - even if
you hate their music and find their skills lacking - one owes a minimum of
courtesy. That said, when it's a band of kitsch "gypsy" players, who insist
upon attacking you while you're trying to digest a large plate of
paprikáscsirke, and you know the only way to get rid of them is to bribe
them to go away, it can be testing.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:


> Flunisolide - would that be a corticosteroid? I remeber (once more, in the
> ENT emergency room) a guy who worked as a flavor tester with a tobacco
> company (dig this - he did not smoke himself!) who had aproblem with
> vasomotric rhinitis which was detrimental to his work - he used, if I
> remember correctly, a a corticostertoid as nasal inhalant to alleviate those
> problems and get on with his day.

Yup, as CWDJr said (obliquely) it's a corticosteroid. As such, I'd
think twice about using it for cold relief, regardless of its olfactory
benefits.

Mark Lipton

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se
"Ian Hoare" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Salut/Hi Timothy Hartley,
>
> le/on Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:54:51 +0100, tu disais/you said:-
<snip obviously very cogent and easy-to-agree-to matters<

>>I remember that I had to ask a number of English "Hooray Henries" -
>>and a Henrietta

I am truly sorry to say I do not know what a Hooray Henry (or ditto
Henrietta) is - should I count this as a lack in my upbringing? The rest of
the text says "no" but I don´t know what is referred to by this phrase ...
why do I get the impression of persons hanging at a bar (THIS BEING THEIR
MODE OF KEEPING VAGUELY UPRIGHT) AND GOING "hörru du hörru du hörru du"
(this is Swedish for "heyaknow heyaknow heyaknow")

>
>... That said, when it's a band of kitsch "gypsy" players, who insist
> upon attacking you while you're trying to digest a large plate of
> paprikáscsirke

Happened to me in Prague. Dreadful. So was the wine. And the "drink" that
was "free" and tasted like something that is being offered as free in the
kind of restaurant where you are attacked by bogus gypsy musicians in
Prague. Or Budapest. Or Nuuk [1].

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

[1] Nuuk is on Greenland for those ignorant of that town.

In article >, nils.
says...
>
>
>
>--
>Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se
>"Ian Hoare" > skrev i meddelandet
.. .
>> Salut/Hi Timothy Hartley,
>>
>> le/on Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:54:51 +0100, tu disais/you said:-
><snip obviously very cogent and easy-to-agree-to matters<
>
>>>I remember that I had to ask a number of English "Hooray Henries" -
>>>and a Henrietta
>
>I am truly sorry to say I do not know what a Hooray Henry (or ditto
>Henrietta) is - should I count this as a lack in my upbringing? The rest of
>the text says "no" but I don´t know what is referred to by this phrase ...
>why do I get the impression of persons hanging at a bar (THIS BEING THEIR
>MODE OF KEEPING VAGUELY UPRIGHT) AND GOING "hörru du hörru du hörru du"
>(this is Swedish for "heyaknow heyaknow heyaknow")
>
>>
>>... That said, when it's a band of kitsch "gypsy" players, who insist
>> upon attacking you while you're trying to digest a large plate of
>> paprikáscsirke
>
>Happened to me in Prague. Dreadful. So was the wine. And the "drink" that
>was "free" and tasted like something that is being offered as free in the
>kind of restaurant where you are attacked by bogus gypsy musicians in
>Prague. Or Budapest. Or Nuuk [1].
>
>Cheers
>
>Nils Gustaf
>
>[1] Nuuk is on Greenland for those ignorant of that town.

Nils,

Thank you for asking the above question. I, too, do not know what a "Hooray
Henry," of "Henrietta" (other than the feminine of Henry) is. I'm waiting for
the clarification.

As to "Gypsies," they do seem to be everywhere, including much of the US.

As for Nuuk, thank you for the geographic reference. Never having been to
Greenland, I would have had to rely on Google. Now, if it were the "twin-
cities" of Nuuk-Nuuk, it would sound like a "Three Stooges" routine - sorry
for this last, very US reference, but I could not control my fingers on this
one. Maybe the learned Mr Rosenburg can comment, and I look forward to his
doing so.

Thank you,
Hunt
>
>