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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 02:56 AM
Richard Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default Shira-z from South Africa

Tonight I was out to dinner in Charlotte to a Pub Steakhouse place called
Manzettis. There was a wine bottle on the table called Serengeti Shira-z
from South Africa.

I somehow thought that Shiraz was Syrah from Austrailia. Therefore to see
it from South Africa I thought was strange.

dick



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Old 05-07-2005, 12:17 PM
gerald
 
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Default

From where do you think the Aussies got their Shiraz plantings?
France? California? Long Island?

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 01:56:57 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
wrote:

Tonight I was out to dinner in Charlotte to a Pub Steakhouse place called
Manzettis. There was a wine bottle on the table called Serengeti Shira-z
from South Africa.

I somehow thought that Shiraz was Syrah from Austrailia. Therefore to see
it from South Africa I thought was strange.

dick


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Old 05-07-2005, 01:31 PM
Richard Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would have assumed France. But not certain. Could have been California.
Does not really matter.

I would have assumed Shiraz was from Austrailia just like Champagne is from
France, Chablix =France.

Florida OJ = Florida.

What you are saying is we can get Florida OJ from Chili, Italian tomatoes
from Canada, Parma Ham=Canada.

Does not make sense to me.




"gerald" wrote in message
news
From where do you think the Aussies got their Shiraz plantings?
France? California? Long Island?

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 01:56:57 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
wrote:

Tonight I was out to dinner in Charlotte to a Pub Steakhouse place called
Manzettis. There was a wine bottle on the table called Serengeti Shira-z
from South Africa.

I somehow thought that Shiraz was Syrah from Austrailia. Therefore to see
it from South Africa I thought was strange.

dick




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Old 05-07-2005, 02:36 PM
Chuck Reid
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What you are saying is we can get Florida OJ from Chili, Italian tomatoes
from Canada, Parma Ham=Canada.

Well, reasonable facsimiles thereof at any rate. ;))

Does not make sense to me.



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 03:00 PM
TB
 
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Default

Well unlike all the other examples you quote Richard, Shiraz is not a
geographical name from Australia. The word could be said to have a
Persian clang, Shiraz being a large city in ancient Persia/ today's
Iran.

Lore has it that the grape was brought by returning crusaders from the
Orient to the Rh=F4ne valley, where it took the spelling of Syrah, being
not too far from a francophilic pronunciation of the Persian Shiraz
(the i in Persian being pronounced more as an e would be in the
European languages and the y in French not at all like "my" or "thy" in
English). This is most likely false, but makes for a nice story.
Certain documentation suggests that it was brought to Australia from
France in the 19th century under the spelling Scyras, which became
Shiraz either as an articulative simplification or due to the romantic
era infatuation with the Orient.

I have seen, bought, tasted Shiraz at various occassions from South
African (never had a chance to taste a truly impressive one
unfortunately) and even from Chile and the US quite naturally, without
wondering why they have chosen the name Shiraz and not Syrah. But
coming to think of it, this may just be an attempt to position
themselves distinctly from European products, or just to piggyback on
the reputation built by the Australians.

Cheers



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Old 05-07-2005, 04:52 PM
Hunt
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com, tb
says...

Well unlike all the other examples you quote Richard, Shiraz is not a
geographical name from Australia. The word could be said to have a
Persian clang, Shiraz being a large city in ancient Persia/ today's
Iran.

Lore has it that the grape was brought by returning crusaders from the
Orient to the Rh=F4ne valley, where it took the spelling of Syrah, being
not too far from a francophilic pronunciation of the Persian Shiraz
(the i in Persian being pronounced more as an e would be in the
European languages and the y in French not at all like "my" or "thy" in
English). This is most likely false, but makes for a nice story.
Certain documentation suggests that it was brought to Australia from
France in the 19th century under the spelling Scyras, which became
Shiraz either as an articulative simplification or due to the romantic
era infatuation with the Orient.

I have seen, bought, tasted Shiraz at various occassions from South
African (never had a chance to taste a truly impressive one
unfortunately) and even from Chile and the US quite naturally, without
wondering why they have chosen the name Shiraz and not Syrah. But
coming to think of it, this may just be an attempt to position
themselves distinctly from European products, or just to piggyback on
the reputation built by the Australians.

Cheers


Good piece, TB. When I first encountered "Shiraz" outside OZ, I too was
puzzled. It was Voss Napa Shiraz (quite good with the fare it was paired with
too), so I questioned the sommelier. He was at a loss, as to the naming
convention, and brought the bottle over for me to examine. He was 100%
correct, as to the naming on the bottle. A bit of research yielded that the
winery owner's wife was from OZ, so he chose that convention to name his Syrah
offering - in honor of her heritage. As to the SA offerings, I think you are
probably correct, as to why they chose to call it Shiraz. As the SA wine
market gets "back on its feet," so to speak, they are looking for marketing
hooks, and Shiraz is certainly very popular, and familiar in much of the world
market. The UK wine lists that I have encountered are fairly heavy in OZ
Shiraz, though one sees a lot of Rhone offerings, as well. Unlike the US wine
lists, when geographical names are used, like Hermitage, the grape varietal(s)
are usually not stated along with the vintage, producer, etc. Some Cape
version of a Madison Ave marketing person, said, "hey, the world now knows
Aussie Shiraz, let's call our Syrah offering Shiraz too!"

Hunt

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 04:55 PM
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default

TB wrote:

SNIP useful info

I have seen, bought, tasted Shiraz at various occassions from South
African (never had a chance to taste a truly impressive one
unfortunately) and even from Chile and the US quite naturally, without
wondering why they have chosen the name Shiraz and not Syrah. But
coming to think of it, this may just be an attempt to position
themselves distinctly from European products, or just to piggyback on
the reputation built by the Australians.


I think that this latter is probably the driving force. It's fair to
say, IMO, that in the American marketplace at least Shiraz is now a more
familiar name to consumers than Syrah is. Purists will still call it
Syrah, but more than a few CA wineries have begun to label it Shiraz.

Mark Lipton
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 05:11 PM
Richard Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, if you can't beat them...copy them. Guess its a form of flattery to
some...or lack of creativity for most.

Sad


"Hunt" wrote in message
...
In article .com, tb
says...

Well unlike all the other examples you quote Richard, Shiraz is not a
geographical name from Australia. The word could be said to have a
Persian clang, Shiraz being a large city in ancient Persia/ today's
Iran.

Lore has it that the grape was brought by returning crusaders from the
Orient to the Rh=F4ne valley, where it took the spelling of Syrah, being
not too far from a francophilic pronunciation of the Persian Shiraz
(the i in Persian being pronounced more as an e would be in the
European languages and the y in French not at all like "my" or "thy" in
English). This is most likely false, but makes for a nice story.
Certain documentation suggests that it was brought to Australia from
France in the 19th century under the spelling Scyras, which became
Shiraz either as an articulative simplification or due to the romantic
era infatuation with the Orient.

I have seen, bought, tasted Shiraz at various occassions from South
African (never had a chance to taste a truly impressive one
unfortunately) and even from Chile and the US quite naturally, without
wondering why they have chosen the name Shiraz and not Syrah. But
coming to think of it, this may just be an attempt to position
themselves distinctly from European products, or just to piggyback on
the reputation built by the Australians.

Cheers


Good piece, TB. When I first encountered "Shiraz" outside OZ, I too was
puzzled. It was Voss Napa Shiraz (quite good with the fare it was paired
with
too), so I questioned the sommelier. He was at a loss, as to the naming
convention, and brought the bottle over for me to examine. He was 100%
correct, as to the naming on the bottle. A bit of research yielded that
the
winery owner's wife was from OZ, so he chose that convention to name his
Syrah
offering - in honor of her heritage. As to the SA offerings, I think you
are
probably correct, as to why they chose to call it Shiraz. As the SA wine
market gets "back on its feet," so to speak, they are looking for
marketing
hooks, and Shiraz is certainly very popular, and familiar in much of the
world
market. The UK wine lists that I have encountered are fairly heavy in OZ
Shiraz, though one sees a lot of Rhone offerings, as well. Unlike the US
wine
lists, when geographical names are used, like Hermitage, the grape
varietal(s)
are usually not stated along with the vintage, producer, etc. Some Cape
version of a Madison Ave marketing person, said, "hey, the world now knows
Aussie Shiraz, let's call our Syrah offering Shiraz too!"

Hunt



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:29 PM
gerald
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:52:25 +0200, Mike Tommasi
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:17:21 -0400, gerald wrote:

From where do you think the Aussies got their Shiraz plantings?
France? California? Long Island?


Not sure what you mean.


What I mean is that Shiraz is the Syrah grape in South Africa. Was
brought there by the Huguenots somewhere around 1700. Was called
Shiraz then, and is now.

At a later date, the Australians got their original Syrah/Shiraz
cuttings from SA, so they named them what they were where they got
them, which was Shiraz. The OZ Syrah did not come directly from
France.

Do not know why SA called them Shiraz.


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:33 PM
Richard Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks. For som reason I assumed Shiraz was of Austrailia.


"gerald" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:52:25 +0200, Mike Tommasi
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:17:21 -0400, gerald wrote:

From where do you think the Aussies got their Shiraz plantings?
France? California? Long Island?


Not sure what you mean.


What I mean is that Shiraz is the Syrah grape in South Africa. Was
brought there by the Huguenots somewhere around 1700. Was called
Shiraz then, and is now.

At a later date, the Australians got their original Syrah/Shiraz
cuttings from SA, so they named them what they were where they got
them, which was Shiraz. The OZ Syrah did not come directly from
France.

Do not know why SA called them Shiraz.



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2005, 02:15 AM
J
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you are in Charlotte much, you might want to try LaTorre's it is in
uptown Charlotte near the IJL building on the same street I believe as the
Capital Grille. Not sure how much Syrah or Shiraz you might see, but you
most definitely will find some wonderful South American wines and cuisine.

Haven't been in a year, work has moved me away :-(


"Richard Neidich" wrote in message
link.net...
Tonight I was out to dinner in Charlotte to a Pub Steakhouse place called
Manzettis. There was a wine bottle on the table called Serengeti Shira-z
from South Africa.

I somehow thought that Shiraz was Syrah from Austrailia. Therefore to see
it from South Africa I thought was strange.

dick



  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2005, 11:01 AM
TB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My 2 cents to this: I was in Charlotte in the first week of January
this year for one evening. I ate at Zink on the North Tryon Street (not
too far from the big Bank buildings - Wachovia, Bank of America) and
had some really well-made fish (Sea Bream) with a wunderbar Russian
River Cabernet Sauvignon. My colleagues were very happy with their
steaks as well. The service was friendly though I had trouble to
understand the accents ;-)

Flying from Frankfurt, the best part for me was to sit in the patio in
early January for dinner without thick sweaters or jackets!

Cheers

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