Hello Everyone,

I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
about wine for 5 years or so.

I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
into the shoulder).

I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.

My questions:

1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?

2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
spoiled by an infection).

I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
should do so.

Thanks,

Jonathan

You'd have to go always to screw up an 1982 Mouton. I say open the sucker
soon. Normally it is a 40+ year wine but as you've indicated it has been
exposed to less than ideal temperatures. AS long as the temperature has not
varied suddenly, but gradually, I'm sure it is still very good. But why
wait???? If its bad you've eliminated years of stressful thinking, should I
open it now. If its the near perfect wine it was in 1988 when I last had
it, you can always refinance and buy another. If you don't have enough
friends to share it with you, I'm sure afw has a few volunteers. As for me
I prefer the 82 Marguax, Trotonoy, Petrus and LaTour but that's just a
quibble.......

--
Joseph B. Rosenberg
"Jonathan" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>

You'd have to go always to screw up an 1982 Mouton. I say open the sucker
soon. Normally it is a 40+ year wine but as you've indicated it has been
exposed to less than ideal temperatures. AS long as the temperature has not
varied suddenly, but gradually, I'm sure it is still very good. But why
wait???? If its bad you've eliminated years of stressful thinking, should I
open it now. If its the near perfect wine it was in 1988 when I last had
it, you can always refinance and buy another. If you don't have enough
friends to share it with you, I'm sure afw has a few volunteers. As for me
I prefer the 82 Marguax, Trotonoy, Petrus and LaTour but that's just a
quibble.......

--
Joseph B. Rosenberg
"Jonathan" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>

On 10-Apr-2005, Jonathan > wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.

Don't be bashful, I've found that this group welcomes most everyone
(assuming it's not a troll - and is more than happy to share experiences,
opinions, etc. freely. After all, we all started sometime.... I've been at
it not too much longer than you (about 8 years) and I too feel that I still
have much to learn and this is a great place for it.

>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).

As was pointed out in another post, assuming that these temperature changes
have occurred gradually rather than suddenly, this shouldn't hurt the wine.
The higher the temperature (to a point) the shorter the wine will live.
Consider that in the US, many fine wine shops keep stuff for long periods of
time in less than ideal conditions....

>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.

I would be concerned about the humidity that the wine was stored in. Based
on the comment that the cork didn't appear to have pushed out would indicate
that probably the temperature changes have been gradual. I would also think
that the humidity has been okay, unless the dried stuff on top of the cork
is dark purple which would indicate that the wine has seeped and is probably
bad (oxidized). If it's a light-medium green (ala moldy) then the humidity
has probably been okay.

>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.

As you say, the proof is in the pudding. If it were me, I'd probably look
to be opening this sooner rather than later. Find a good excuse, someone to
share it with and a reserve bottle (just in case) and let 'er rip. Of
course, we will all be expecting a follow-up report with the outcome.

Cheers,
Gary

On 10-Apr-2005, Jonathan > wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.

Don't be bashful, I've found that this group welcomes most everyone
(assuming it's not a troll - and is more than happy to share experiences,
opinions, etc. freely. After all, we all started sometime.... I've been at
it not too much longer than you (about 8 years) and I too feel that I still
have much to learn and this is a great place for it.

>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).

As was pointed out in another post, assuming that these temperature changes
have occurred gradually rather than suddenly, this shouldn't hurt the wine.
The higher the temperature (to a point) the shorter the wine will live.
Consider that in the US, many fine wine shops keep stuff for long periods of
time in less than ideal conditions....

>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.

I would be concerned about the humidity that the wine was stored in. Based
on the comment that the cork didn't appear to have pushed out would indicate
that probably the temperature changes have been gradual. I would also think
that the humidity has been okay, unless the dried stuff on top of the cork
is dark purple which would indicate that the wine has seeped and is probably
bad (oxidized). If it's a light-medium green (ala moldy) then the humidity
has probably been okay.

>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.

As you say, the proof is in the pudding. If it were me, I'd probably look
to be opening this sooner rather than later. Find a good excuse, someone to
share it with and a reserve bottle (just in case) and let 'er rip. Of
course, we will all be expecting a follow-up report with the outcome.

Cheers,
Gary

"Jonathan" > wrote in message
...

> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of the
> cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?

You're going to lose the foil anyway when you open the bottle. IIRC, in
those days they used lead foils, so it would be best to scrub all the crud
off the neck and cork before opening the bottle. A Scotchbrite® pad under
running water works well for that.

> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).

Given it's less than perfect provenance, I wouldn't hold it much longer.
After scrubbibg away the lead acetate and mold on the neck of the bottle,
let it stand upright for at least a few days. That'll let whatever sediment
it has thrown fall to the bottom of the bottle. When you're ready to open
the bottle, do so carefully so as not to disturb the sediment. Decant the
wine slowly into a serving vessel and stop pouring when the sediment rises
to the neck of the bottle. Personally, I usually pour the dregs through a
paper coffee filter to give the entire contents of the bottle a chance to be
presented clear. This works better with some wines than others.

> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to drink
> it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I should do
> so.

If it were mine, I'd open it soon. There's probably no real urgency to do
so, since 1982 was a very good year in Bordeaux and Mouton was one of the
top wines that year. Still, why wait? Make an occasion of it and serve it
with rack of lamb or whatever suits your fancy.

Tom S

Jonathan > wrote in message >.. .
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>

Hey Jonathon

They're not "our" disccussions.

As for the Mouton - high shoulder is not unusual, but not wonderful
for a 20 yr wine. A lot of wine out and a lot of O2 in as the
temperature varies. I'd take Joseph's advice and drink it soon.

Rob

It has been said that if you have a great bottle of fine wine all that you
have is a bottle of wine, but if you open it with friends and family you
will have memories that will last far longer than the wine.




"joseph b. rosenberg" > wrote in message
...
> You'd have to go always to screw up an 1982 Mouton. I say open the sucker
> soon. Normally it is a 40+ year wine but as you've indicated it has been
> exposed to less than ideal temperatures. AS long as the temperature has
> not
> varied suddenly, but gradually, I'm sure it is still very good. But why
> wait???? If its bad you've eliminated years of stressful thinking, should
> I
> open it now. If its the near perfect wine it was in 1988 when I last had
> it, you can always refinance and buy another. If you don't have enough
> friends to share it with you, I'm sure afw has a few volunteers. As for
> me
> I prefer the 82 Marguax, Trotonoy, Petrus and LaTour but that's just a
> quibble.......
>
> --
> Joseph B. Rosenberg
> "Jonathan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
>> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
>> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
>> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
>> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
>> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
>> about wine for 5 years or so.
>>
>> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
>> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
>> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
>> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
>> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
>> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
>> into the shoulder).
>>
>> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
>> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
>> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
>> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>>
>> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
>> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
>> spoiled by an infection).
>>
>> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
>> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
>> should do so.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>
>

It has been said that if you have a great bottle of fine wine all that you
have is a bottle of wine, but if you open it with friends and family you
will have memories that will last far longer than the wine.




"joseph b. rosenberg" > wrote in message
...
> You'd have to go always to screw up an 1982 Mouton. I say open the sucker
> soon. Normally it is a 40+ year wine but as you've indicated it has been
> exposed to less than ideal temperatures. AS long as the temperature has
> not
> varied suddenly, but gradually, I'm sure it is still very good. But why
> wait???? If its bad you've eliminated years of stressful thinking, should
> I
> open it now. If its the near perfect wine it was in 1988 when I last had
> it, you can always refinance and buy another. If you don't have enough
> friends to share it with you, I'm sure afw has a few volunteers. As for
> me
> I prefer the 82 Marguax, Trotonoy, Petrus and LaTour but that's just a
> quibble.......
>
> --
> Joseph B. Rosenberg
> "Jonathan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
>> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
>> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
>> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
>> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
>> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
>> about wine for 5 years or so.
>>
>> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
>> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
>> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
>> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
>> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
>> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
>> into the shoulder).
>>
>> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
>> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
>> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
>> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>>
>> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
>> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
>> spoiled by an infection).
>>
>> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
>> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
>> should do so.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>
>

> It has been said that if you have a great bottle of fine wine all
that you
> have is a bottle of wine, but if you open it with friends and family
you
> will have memories that will last far longer than the wine.

When asked what the perfect number would be for a dinner party, oil
billionaire Calouste Gulbenkian replied, "Two. Myself and a head
waiter."

> It has been said that if you have a great bottle of fine wine all
that you
> have is a bottle of wine, but if you open it with friends and family
you
> will have memories that will last far longer than the wine.

When asked what the perfect number would be for a dinner party, oil
billionaire Calouste Gulbenkian replied, "Two. Myself and a head
waiter."

"Coppy Littlehouse" > wrote:

> When asked what the perfect number would be for a dinner party,
> oil billionaire Calouste Gulbenkian replied, "Two. Myself and a
> head waiter."

Sure it was Calouste, not Nubar? The latter seems much more
probable (at least to me).

M

Jonathan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover
and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many
more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions,
but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people
don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been
serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and
the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch

> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the
cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top
of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of

> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin
level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is
not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when
I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan


I bought two cases of 1982 Mouton on release and have stored them a
55F. The bottles still have a high neck fill so I haven't lost much
wine over the years to evaporation. I've drank one case so far over
the years and the wine is starting to show a fair amount of maturity.
The wine is clearing at the rim and has began to show a slight amount
of bricking. The flavors are maturing and I would open and drink the
bottle you have sometime sooner than later. The amount of tannin won't
protect the wine from improper storage and it sounds like it has lost a
fair amount of volume over the years.

Jonathan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover
and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many
more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions,
but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people
don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been
serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and
the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch

> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the
cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top
of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of

> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin
level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is
not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when
I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan


I bought two cases of 1982 Mouton on release and have stored them a
55F. The bottles still have a high neck fill so I haven't lost much
wine over the years to evaporation. I've drank one case so far over
the years and the wine is starting to show a fair amount of maturity.
The wine is clearing at the rim and has began to show a slight amount
of bricking. The flavors are maturing and I would open and drink the
bottle you have sometime sooner than later. The amount of tannin won't
protect the wine from improper storage and it sounds like it has lost a
fair amount of volume over the years.

Jonathan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>

Thanks to all of you for your great responses. You've convinced me to
open the bottle tonight! My neighbors (the couple who gave me the
bottle) will be coming over tonight and I will server Epoisse
(Burgundian cheese) with some toasted nuts (pine-nuts, slivered almonds,
and pecans) and a fresh baguette.

I am planning on decanting the wine about 45 minutes before serving.
Does that sound right?

May I request your input on the following question?:

Should I start with a warm-up wine, say a different Bordeaux, and then
enjoy the Mouton Rothschild, or just launch straight into the main event?

Thanks again to Joseph, Sibeer, Coppy Littlehouse, Mike T., Michael P,
CabFan, Tom, and Bi.

Final report:

Sometimes it is better to have your cake than to eat it. Alas, the cork
crumbled, the wine was worse than vinegar and my backup bottle (a 1982
BV Cab Reserve) suffered from a similar cork ailment. For four days I
owned, at least is theory, one of the world's most excellent wines!

On the bright side, I had my neighbors over for a lovely evening and we
shared a bottle of 1982 Gruaud Larose, a BV Cabernet 1994, cheese,
chocolate and fruit. We had a wonderful time and enjoyed excellent
conversation. As Sibeer wisely said, it is the sharing and not the wine
that is the lasting memory.

Thanks again to you all for your comments...

Jonathan




Jonathan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been "lurking" on this site for sometime as I am a wine lover and
> have really enjoyed your discussions. I haven't had too much to
> contribute as I feel that I still have a lot to learn. I have many more
> questions than answers. As an aficionado, I also have my opinions, but
> opinions are generally easy to come by, and I assume that people don't
> necesarily want to hear the those of someone who has only been serious
> about wine for 5 years or so.
>
> I was wondering what the chances are that a bottle of 1982 Mouton
> Rothschild that I was just given will be good. My neighbor has been
> storing it on its side in his basements, but not under cellar
> conditions. It has probably experienced temperature shifts between
> 55-68 degrees during its lifetime. The label is badly stained and the
> fill-level has dropped about 1 and quarter inches (just one-half inch
> into the shoulder).
>
> I carefully cut the foil with a cutting tool and can see that the cork
> is exactly at the proper level and has not pushed higher than the top of
> the bottle. It is encrusted with a layer of dried stuff.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1) Should I remove all of the foil to get a sense of the condition of
> the cork, and thus sacrifice the aethetics of the bottle?
>
> 2) This is theoretically a 50-60 year keeper, so will its tannin level
> help it withstand less-than-perfect cellaring (assuming that it is not
> spoiled by an infection).
>
> I know that the proof will only come when I finally open the wine to
> drink it, but some informed input from you might help me decide when I
> should do so.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>

Jonathan wrote:
> Final report:
>
> Sometimes it is better to have your cake than to eat it. Alas, the cork
> crumbled, the wine was worse than vinegar and my backup bottle (a 1982
> BV Cab Reserve) suffered from a similar cork ailment. For four days I
> owned, at least is theory, one of the world's most excellent wines!

Crumbling corks are nothing too unusual, but what does "worse than
vinegar" mean? Was it oxidized (Port-like), corked (moldy smelling),
suffering from volatile acidity (sharp, vinegar-like smell) or cooked
(stewed fruit and thin flavors)? None of the above? It does actually
take some work to kill a bottle of a tannic red wine, so your comment is
a bit surprising to me.

>
> On the bright side, I had my neighbors over for a lovely evening and we
> shared a bottle of 1982 Gruaud Larose, a BV Cabernet 1994, cheese,
> chocolate and fruit. We had a wonderful time and enjoyed excellent
> conversation. As Sibeer wisely said, it is the sharing and not the wine
> that is the lasting memory.

How was the Gruaud-Larose? It may not have received quite as much hype
as the Mouton, but was still an awesome wine in '82. It should be just
now reaching maturity (and I own but a single bottle, dammit!).

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote:
> Jonathan wrote:
>
>> Final report:
>>
>> Sometimes it is better to have your cake than to eat it. Alas, the
>> cork crumbled, the wine was worse than vinegar and my backup bottle (a
>> 1982 BV Cab Reserve) suffered from a similar cork ailment. For four
>> days I owned, at least is theory, one of the world's most excellent
>> wines!
>
>
> Crumbling corks are nothing too unusual, but what does "worse than
> vinegar" mean? Was it oxidized (Port-like), corked (moldy smelling),
> suffering from volatile acidity (sharp, vinegar-like smell) or cooked
> (stewed fruit and thin flavors)? None of the above? It does actually
> take some work to kill a bottle of a tannic red wine, so your comment is
> a bit surprising to me.

It was badly oxidized -- "Port-like" would be a generous description!
The cork was so soft that the blade of the corkscrew was able to glide
through it efforlessly but could not grip onto any cork material on the
way back out.

Wierdly enough, my 1982 BV Reserve did exactly the same thing even
though the cork appeared to be the proper color and was dry. That wine
too suffered from severe oxidation. I purchased it from a reputable
wine dealer over the Internet and let it sit in my cellar for a few
months on its side. There was a label that read, "from a private
cellar" on it so I was pretty disappointed.
>
>>
>> On the bright side, I had my neighbors over for a lovely evening and
>> we shared a bottle of 1982 Gruaud Larose, a BV Cabernet 1994, cheese,
>> chocolate and fruit. We had a wonderful time and enjoyed excellent
>> conversation. As Sibeer wisely said, it is the sharing and not the
>> wine that is the lasting memory.
>
>
> How was the Gruaud-Larose? It may not have received quite as much hype
> as the Mouton, but was still an awesome wine in '82. It should be just
> now reaching maturity (and I own but a single bottle, dammit!).

The Gruaud-Larose was pretty good. The bouquet was very nice with good
complexity with nice eucalyptus and mint aromas. Perhaps this is a
function of excellent integration of the oak. The body was a bit thin,
and I could not notice much, if any fruit, but it was not overly acidic.
There were no sharp edges.

I found the wine G-L quite pleasant but not on par with some of the good
Bordeauxs that I have had. I recently enjoyed a really excellent '88
Bechyville that had held up very well. Needless to say, your bottle
might be alot better given that the one that I tried was stored along
side the Mouton Rothschilds (3 bottles!) that deteriorated so badly.

Why do you suppose the G-L held up so much better the the M-Rs?
>
> Mark Lipton