Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> I have never bought a Großlage wine from either Austria or
> Germany. I realize these are usually nothing to write home
> about, but I would like to understand what they are. AFAIK they
> seem to be a collection of several Einzellage. Question is,given
> that Einzellage wines always mention the villagename, do
> Grosslage wines also mention the village? Sometimes? Never? Do
> they mention the Bereich?

Mike, there is a fundamental difference between a Großlage in
Germany and in Austria. As others have said, the German Großlagen
are indistinguishable from Einzellagen as they follow exactly
the same naming scheme: village name plus vineyard name.

This "Betrug" has been discussed ad nauseam in German wine
circles, e.g. in the "Weinforum" mailing list. There are those -
like you, me, Hugh Johnson and just about the rest of the world
except for the most bone-headed German négociants and cooperatives
- who believe it being the biggest mistake ever done in the German
wine industry. And there are handfull of others, mostly in German
trade and cooperative circles, possibly also supermarket chain
buyers, who might find the concept logic and/or attractive.

Thus said, the Austrian concept of Großlagen somehow tried to copy
the German way, but in fact it never really was used much. For
some coincidence, today I wrote up an article about the Wagram
part (Großlage "Wagram-Donauland") of Weinbaugebiet Donauland so I
digged into the details and came up with the Großlagen-Verordnung.
Here is the official text:


----------------- begin citation -----------------

Für die Weinbauflächen innerhalb der nachfolgend angeführten
Weinbaugebiete werden folgende Großlagen festgesetzt:

1. Weinbaugebiet Burgenland:

a) Kaisergarten: politischer Bezirk Neusiedl am See;

b) Sonnenberg: politischer Bezirk Eisenstadt-Umgebung und
Freistadt Eisenstadt;

c) Vogelsang: Freistadt Rust;

d) Rosalienkapelle: politischer Bezirk Mattersburg;

e) Goldbachtal: politischer Bezirk Oberpullendorf;

f) Rechnitzer Geschriebenstein: Gemeinden Rechnitz, Weiden
bei Rechnitz, Markt Neuhodis und Stadt Schlaining;

g) Pinkatal: politische Bezirke Oberwart und Güssing mit
Ausnahme der Gemeinden Rechnitz, Weiden bei Rechnitz,
Markt Neuhodis und Stadt Schlaining.

2. Weinbaugebiet Niederösterreich:

a) Weißer Stein: Gemeinde Perchtoldsdorf;

b) Kapellenweg: Gemeinde Guntramsdorf;

c) Schatzberg: Gemeinde Gumpoldskirchen;

d) Tattendorfer Steinhölle (Stahölln): Gemeinden Pottendorf,
Schönau an der Triesting, Blumau-Neurißhof, Tattendorf und
Teesdorf;

e) Badener Berg: Gemeinden Baden, Sooß, Pfaffstätten,
Traiskirchen, Günselsdorf, Trumau und Oberwaltersdorf;

f) Vöslauer Hauerberg: Gemeinden Bad Vöslau, Kottingbrunn und
Leobersdorf sowie Gerichtsbezirke Pottenstein und
Ebreichsdorf mit Ausnahme der Gemeinden Pottendorf, Trumau
und Oberwaltersdorf;

g) Kaiserstiege: Gemeinden Rohrendorf bei Krems und
Gedersdorf;

h) Göttweiger Berg: Gemeinden Furth bei Göttweig und Paudorf;

i) Frauenweingarten: in der Gemeinde Dürnstein die
Katastralgemeinden Ober- und Unterloiben;

j) Traismaurer Weinberge: Stadt St. Pölten und Gemeinden
Böheimkirchen, Sitzenberg-Reidling, Atzenbrugg, Würmla
sowie Gerichtsbezirk Herzogenburg;

k) Klosterneuburger Weinberge: Gerichtsbezirk Klosterneuburg
mit Ausnahme der Gemeinde Gerasdorf bei Wien;

l) Tulbinger Kogel: Gerichtsbezirk Tulln mit Ausnahme der
Gemeinden Sitzenberg-Reidling, Atzenbrugg und Würmla;

m) Wagram-Donauland: Gerichtsbezirk Kirchberg am Wagram;

n) Bisamberg-Kreuzenstein: politischer Bezirk Korneuburg;

o) Matzner Hügel: Gerichtsbezirk Gänserndorf und Gemeinde
Dürnkrut;

p) Wolkersdorfer Hochleiten: Gerichtsbezirk Wolkersdorf mit
Ausnahme der Gemeinde Kreuzstetten;

q) Falkensteiner Hügelland: Gemeinde Kreuzstetten sowie
Gerichtsbezirke Poysdorf, Mistelbach, Laa an der Thaya und
Zistersdorf mit Ausnahme der Gemeinde Dürnkrut;

r) Retzer Weinberge: politische Bezirke Hollabrunn und Horn;

s) Pulkautal: Gemeinden Pulkau, Zellerndorf, Retz, Retzbach,
Pernersdorf, Haugsdorf, Alberndorf im Pulkautal, Hadres,
Seefeld-Kadolz, Mailberg, Guntersdorf und Wullersdorf.

3. Weinbaugebiet Südsteiermark:

a) Südsteirisches Rebenland: im politischen Bezirk Leibnitz
die Gemeinden Arnfels, Berghausen, Ehrenhausen,
Eichberg-Trautenburg, Gamlitz, Glanz, Großklein,
Leutschach, Oberhaag, Ratsch an der Weinstraße, Retznei,
St. Johann im Saggautal, Schloßberg, Seggauberg,
Spielfeld, Sulztal an der Weinstraße, Wagna und von der
Gemeinde Heimschuh die Weinbauflächen rechts der Sulm;

b) Sausal: im politischen Bezirk Leibnitz die Gemeinden
Gleinstätten, Kaindorf an der Sulm, Kitzeck im Sausal,
Lang, Leibnitz, Lebring-St. Margarethen, Pistorf, St.
Andrä-Höch, St. Nikolai im Sausal, Tillmitsch, Weitendorf,
Wildon und von der Gemeinde Heimschuh die Weinbauflächen
links der Sulm.

4. Weinbaugebiet Süd-Oststeiermark:

a) Steirisches Vulkanland: politische Bezirke Radkersburg und
Feldbach;

b) Oststeirisches Hügelland: politische Bezirke Fürstenfeld,
Hartberg und Weiz sowie die Weinbauflächen der politischen
Bezirke Leibnitz und Graz-Umgebung links der Mur.

5. Weinbaugebiet Wien:

a) Bisamberg-Wien: Katastralgemeinden Strebersdorf,
Stammersdorf und Groß-Jedlersdorf;

b) Kahlenberg: Katastralgemeinden Kahlenbergerdorf und
Josefsdorf;

c) Nußberg: Katastralgemeinden Nußdorf und Heiligenstadt;

d) Georgenberg: Katastralgemeinden Mauer, Kalksburg und
Rodaun.

----------------- end citation -----------------


If I got my count right, there are 34 Großlagen. But they are in
absolutely no way homogenous. There is one Großlage,
"Frauenweingärten" (2e) that is even smaller than the commune it
is situated in (Dürnstein), there is one, Traismaurer Weinberge
(2j) that covers one whole Weinbaugebiet (Traisental) plus 3
communes of neighbouring Donauland. Only 10 of the 34 are possibly
misunderstandably in the sense that their name looks like an
Einzellage: 1f, 2b, 2b, 2f, 2h, 2l, 2p, 5b, 5c, 5d. Something like
"Hügelland" (hilly land) or "Weinberge" (vineyards) doesn't sound
like a singly vineyard site.

Then there are quite a few Großlagen that bear (single) vineyard
site names but without the name of the village, which normally
prevents them of being confounded with real single vineyard sites,
because in the latter case the commune has to be stated on the
label.

There are other curiosities as there are 2 Großlagen totally
identical with Weinbaugebiete: 1a, Kaisergarten, is Weinbaugebiet
Neusiedlersee. 1e, Goldbachtal, is identical to Mittelburgenland.

This seems to me totally uncoordinated (and it probably is), but
Großlagen are quite rarely seen on Austrian wine labels, they play
no role in the practical marketing of Austrian wines. The only one
I remember having seen "in freier Wildbahn" (i.e. in real life) is
a bottle or two of "Kaiserstiege" from some obscure producer.

HTH a little,

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> Merci beaucoup.

De rien.

> Between the thousands of obscure Grosslage, Einzellage, Rieden,
> Fluren, Bereiche, Ortsteile and whatever it seems the Germans
> and in a lesser way the Austrians have come up with a complex
> classification that rivals the French and Italian systems with
> their mix of quality and garbage appellations and denominations.
> All this must indeed make australians laugh all the way to the
> bank...

Well, most of the top Austrian reds carry a phantasy name ("Das
Phantom", "Admiral", "Elegy", "Pannobile", "G") or what is or used
used to be a vineyard name ("Marienthal", "Salzberg") but today
has turned into the grower's brand name. The same holds true for
all top whites except for dry riesling, grüner veltliner (Wachau &
surroundings), and sauvignon blanc (Styria). These usually come
vineyard designated.

So it's not *that* complicated, after all.

M.

Alexis Lichine gave a then complete table of the German wine
classification in his New Encyclopedia of Wine and Spirits, 3rd. ed. in
Appendix B. There may have been some changes since this was published.
At the first level we start with Anbaugebiet(region) of which there are
11, ie. Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Within these regions we have several
subregions named Bereich. At the next level, wihin a Bereich are found
separate villages and the viineyards associated with them.These towns or
communes can be caled Weinbauort, Gemeinde, or Gemarkung. For the
vineyards, an individual plot is called an Einzellage. However all
Einzellagen are grouped into sections of vineyards called Grosslagen.

As an example we can start with the Anbaugebiet Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Under
this we can find the Bereich Bernkastel. Under this we can find several
Grosslagen. One Grosslage is Badstube. Under this there is only one
Weinbauort(village) called Bernkastel-Kues. Within this there are 5
Einzellage(vineyards including Doctor and Graben. However the Bereich
Berncastel has another Grosslage called Kurfurstlay. Under this are
eleven Weinbauort(village) names, one of which is Bernkastel-Kues also,
which has 6 Einzellage(vineyard) names such as Rosenberg and
Schlossberg. Thus if you bought a Badstube Grosslage wine, you would
have a mixture of wines from 5 of the very top Bernkastel vineyards.
However if you bought a Grosslage Kurfurstlay wine, it could be
associated with any of 11 villages, each having several vineyards. I
choose one of the most extreme examples of the complexity of the German
wine classification. The aim of all of this mess of classification in
the Bernkastel area likely is to allow many less well known wines that
may even be fairly far from Bernkastel to take advantage o the
Bernkastel name in some way. Things are not nearly as complex in some
of the areas of Germany that do not have world-famous wines.

Reply to .

Alexis Lichine gave a then complete table of the German wine
classification in his New Encyclopedia of Wine and Spirits, 3rd. ed. in
Appendix B. There may have been some changes since this was published.
At the first level we start with Anbaugebiet(region) of which there are
11, ie. Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Within these regions we have several
subregions named Bereich. At the next level, wihin a Bereich are found
separate villages and the viineyards associated with them.These towns or
communes can be caled Weinbauort, Gemeinde, or Gemarkung. For the
vineyards, an individual plot is called an Einzellage. However all
Einzellagen are grouped into sections of vineyards called Grosslagen.

As an example we can start with the Anbaugebiet Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Under
this we can find the Bereich Bernkastel. Under this we can find several
Grosslagen. One Grosslage is Badstube. Under this there is only one
Weinbauort(village) called Bernkastel-Kues. Within this there are 5
Einzellage(vineyards including Doctor and Graben. However the Bereich
Berncastel has another Grosslage called Kurfurstlay. Under this are
eleven Weinbauort(village) names, one of which is Bernkastel-Kues also,
which has 6 Einzellage(vineyard) names such as Rosenberg and
Schlossberg. Thus if you bought a Badstube Grosslage wine, you would
have a mixture of wines from 5 of the very top Bernkastel vineyards.
However if you bought a Grosslage Kurfurstlay wine, it could be
associated with any of 11 villages, each having several vineyards. I
choose one of the most extreme examples of the complexity of the German
wine classification. The aim of all of this mess of classification in
the Bernkastel area likely is to allow many less well known wines that
may even be fairly far from Bernkastel to take advantage o the
Bernkastel name in some way. Things are not nearly as complex in some
of the areas of Germany that do not have world-famous wines.

Reply to .

Michael Pronay wrote:
> Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>
>>Merci beaucoup.
>
>
> De rien.
>
>
>>Between the thousands of obscure Grosslage, Einzellage, Rieden,
>>Fluren, Bereiche, Ortsteile and whatever it seems the Germans
>>and in a lesser way the Austrians have come up with a complex
>>classification that rivals the French and Italian systems with
>>their mix of quality and garbage appellations and denominations.
>>All this must indeed make australians laugh all the way to the
>>bank...
>
>
> Well, most of the top Austrian reds carry a phantasy name ("Das
> Phantom", "Admiral", "Elegy", "Pannobile", "G") or what is or used
> used to be a vineyard name ("Marienthal", "Salzberg") but today
> has turned into the grower's brand name. The same holds true for
> all top whites except for dry riesling, grüner veltliner (Wachau &
> surroundings), and sauvignon blanc (Styria). These usually come
> vineyard designated.
>
> So it's not *that* complicated, after all.
>
> M.

I agree, Michael. In my purchases of Austrian wines here (and to a
lesser extent in Austria) I have never been confused by a label. Once
one learns the meaning of a few regional terms (Smaragd, e.g.) it
becomes quite easy for even an American to make out what is in the
bottle, quite unlike the labyrinth that often is presented by German
wines (AP numbers, indeed!)

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
...
> I agree, Michael. In my purchases of Austrian wines here (and to a lesser
> extent in Austria) I have never been confused by a label. Once one learns
> the meaning of a few regional terms (Smaragd, e.g.) it becomes quite easy
> for even an American to make out what is in the bottle, quite unlike the
> labyrinth that often is presented by German wines (AP numbers, indeed!)
>
??
The Austrians do have AP-numbers too...
But who cares about them? (The numbers, I mean .-)
I don't. It is very exceptional to have to resort to that number in order
to identify the wine, imho. I once had two different Erdener Treppchen
Riesling Auslese 199x from a grower, maybe Schwaab-Scherrer, where
everything on the label but the AP-number was identical, the difference
being one of acidity - I had tested the one and said to the grower that I'd
wanted some more of that whereupon he opened the other bottle. Think the
one had .8% and the other .9%.
That's about the only occasion I can recall.
Anders

Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now 13 wine regions. The
two added were in what was in East Germany.


"Cwdjrx _" > wrote in message
...
> Alexis Lichine gave a then complete table of the German wine
> classification in his New Encyclopedia of Wine and Spirits, 3rd. ed. in
> Appendix B. There may have been some changes since this was published.
> At the first level we start with Anbaugebiet(region) of which there are
> 11, ie. Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Within these regions we have several
> subregions named Bereich. At the next level, wihin a Bereich are found
> separate villages and the viineyards associated with them.These towns or
> communes can be caled Weinbauort, Gemeinde, or Gemarkung. For the
> vineyards, an individual plot is called an Einzellage. However all
> Einzellagen are grouped into sections of vineyards called Grosslagen.
>
> As an example we can start with the Anbaugebiet Mosel-Saar-Ruwer. Under
> this we can find the Bereich Bernkastel. Under this we can find several
> Grosslagen. One Grosslage is Badstube. Under this there is only one
> Weinbauort(village) called Bernkastel-Kues. Within this there are 5
> Einzellage(vineyards including Doctor and Graben. However the Bereich
> Berncastel has another Grosslage called Kurfurstlay. Under this are
> eleven Weinbauort(village) names, one of which is Bernkastel-Kues also,
> which has 6 Einzellage(vineyard) names such as Rosenberg and
> Schlossberg. Thus if you bought a Badstube Grosslage wine, you would
> have a mixture of wines from 5 of the very top Bernkastel vineyards.
> However if you bought a Grosslage Kurfurstlay wine, it could be
> associated with any of 11 villages, each having several vineyards. I
> choose one of the most extreme examples of the complexity of the German
> wine classification. The aim of all of this mess of classification in
> the Bernkastel area likely is to allow many less well known wines that
> may even be fairly far from Bernkastel to take advantage o the
> Bernkastel name in some way. Things are not nearly as complex in some
> of the areas of Germany that do not have world-famous wines.
>
> Reply to .
>

Sibeer stated: "Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now
13 wine regions. The two added were in what was in East Germany."

Yes I expected there to be a few changes as the source I used was old
and probably is based on the basic 1971 German wine law. That is why I
mentioned that there might have been some changes. There have also been
several other modifications in the 1971 wine law. At one time you could
have everything from a Kabinett Eiswein to a TBA Eiswein, so you might
see Auslese Eiswein on a label. The law was changed quite a few years
ago so that you can use only Eiswein on the label, but an Eiswein must
be of BA or TBA richness. The change probably was made because some were
even selling Kabinett Eiswein that might be described as "Essence of
Greeness"

Reply to .

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>> Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now 13 wine
>> regions. The two added were in what was in East Germany.

> What are these regions called?

· Saale-Unstrut
· Sachsen

M.

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

>> I agree, Michael. In my purchases of Austrian wines here (and
>> to a lesser extent in Austria) I have never been confused by a
>> label. Once one learns the meaning of a few regional terms
>> (Smaragd, e.g.) it becomes quite easy for even an American to
>> make out what is in the bottle, quite unlike the labyrinth that
>> often is presented by German wines (AP numbers, indeed!)

> ?? The Austrians do have AP-numbers too... But who cares about
> them? (The numbers, I mean .-)

They are not even called "AP"-number (and have never been, btw).
What you can find is something like "LX yyyy[/]03" where "L"
designates the lot number (EU labelling requirement), "X" is a
letter designating the lab that did the tests, "yyyy" is a one to
four digit number given by the lab, and "03" desgignates the year
the Prüfnummer was accorded.

The only time one looks at the Prüfnummer is to see whether a
given wine was made to be consumed early, i.e. when vintage and
Prüfnummer years are equal.

There is a very easy distinction element for dry Austrians to see
whether you have a better wine of a given producer in front of you
or if you are in the basic range: The alcohol content. Up to 12,
12.5, you're basic to medium, over that you're in the premium
segement. OK, it's just a rough guideline, but a guideline
nevertheless.

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> So what DO wines taste like from Dresden, Meißen and Jena ?

I tasted the range of Schloss Proschwitz at Pontet-Canet last
Vinexpo - not bad at all, but not really exciting either.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>> So what DO wines taste like from Dresden, Meißen and Jena ?
>
> I tasted the range of Schloss Proschwitz at Pontet-Canet last
> Vinexpo - not bad at all, but not really exciting either.
>
Fwiw, the wein-plus found the Riesling Spätlese Trocken 2003 of this Sachsen
property worthy of 85 points, and at 13% abv that should satisfy Michael...!
The other ranking winery in the old east according to wein-plus is the
Thüringer Weingut Bad Sulza and their best effort in 2003 seems to be a
Traminer Auslese Trocken with 13.5%abv(!) at 88points, described as follows:
Tenderly floral and cool herbs in the bouquet with lichees and orange peels.
Very clear and typical for the variety, fine-linked acidity, hints of
minerals in the background, good extract, very well balanced, reticent, good
length.

Now, 2003 was an exceptionally hot year, but with global warming
progressing, we may see more usable wines from that area.
(Note1: Bad in German is not bad, but bath..)
(Note2: Points given in the German wein-plus are 3-5 lower than awarded
elsewhere...)

Saale-Unstrut and Sachsen




"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 03:04:36 GMT, "Sibeer" >
> wrote:
>
>>Very interesting, but a slight correction there are now 13 wine regions.
>>The
>>two added were in what was in East Germany.
>
> What are these regions called?
>
>
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

The best I can remember from reading over many years, is that the wines
from what was East Germay were never considered at the top of German
wines in general, even back to the 1800s. However there are always
exceptions for some years and for a few estates that take special care.
You are now seeing a few quality wines coming from other regions of
Germany that in the past produced mainly wines that went in blends or
Sekt(sparkling wine).

Reply to .

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
> ...
>
>>I agree, Michael. In my purchases of Austrian wines here (and to a lesser
>>extent in Austria) I have never been confused by a label. Once one learns
>>the meaning of a few regional terms (Smaragd, e.g.) it becomes quite easy
>>for even an American to make out what is in the bottle, quite unlike the
>>labyrinth that often is presented by German wines (AP numbers, indeed!)
>>
>
> ??
> The Austrians do have AP-numbers too...
> But who cares about them? (The numbers, I mean .-)
> I don't. It is very exceptional to have to resort to that number in order
> to identify the wine, imho. I once had two different Erdener Treppchen
> Riesling Auslese 199x from a grower, maybe Schwaab-Scherrer, where
> everything on the label but the AP-number was identical, the difference
> being one of acidity - I had tested the one and said to the grower that I'd
> wanted some more of that whereupon he opened the other bottle. Think the
> one had .8% and the other .9%.
> That's about the only occasion I can recall.

Anders,
Your experience with German wine far outweighs my own, yet I have
read here and elsewhere of producers who release two different batches
of a wine that, for legal reasons, must be labeled identically -- with
only the foil color and the AP number to distinguish them.

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
...
> Anders Tørneskog wrote:
>> "Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
>> ...
>>
>>>I agree, Michael. In my purchases of Austrian wines here (and to a
>>>lesser extent in Austria) I have never been confused by a label. Once
>>>one learns the meaning of a few regional terms (Smaragd, e.g.) it becomes
>>>quite easy for even an American to make out what is in the bottle, quite
>>>unlike the labyrinth that often is presented by German wines (AP numbers,
>>>indeed!)
>>>
>>
>> ??
>> The Austrians do have AP-numbers too...
>> But who cares about them? (The numbers, I mean .-)
>> I don't. It is very exceptional to have to resort to that number in
>> order to identify the wine, imho. I once had two different Erdener
>> Treppchen Riesling Auslese 199x from a grower, maybe Schwaab-Scherrer,
>> where everything on the label but the AP-number was identical, the
>> difference being one of acidity - I had tested the one and said to the
>> grower that I'd wanted some more of that whereupon he opened the other
>> bottle. Think the one had .8% and the other .9%.
>> That's about the only occasion I can recall.
>
> Anders,
> Your experience with German wine far outweighs my own, yet I have read
> here and elsewhere of producers who release two different batches of a
> wine that, for legal reasons, must be labeled identically -- with only the
> foil color and the AP number to distinguish them.
>
Hi Mark
The different batches must have different numbers, for sure, but they don't
have to have the same labels even when from the same vineyard and of the
same ripeness class - some will use a number of *'s (Heribert Kerpen of
Wehlen, for instance) and others again a barrel number (Fritz Haag of
Brauneberg). Different foil colors or lengths is common too (Brauneberger
Hof uses 'Goldkapsel').
What I said was that it was rare, in my experience, to see two perfectly
identical bottles with only the AP-number being different. Impractical, but
legal.
Anders

Prior to the 1971 German wine laws, several words could be used in the
name of the wine to distinguish between quality levels. These were
sometimes abused, so the 1971 laws put an end to this. However some
wines also had label and capsule differences even before 1971. Here are
a few examples of now forbidden words from pre-1971 wines I have. Now
forbidden words relating to quality are in caps.

Niersteiner Rehbach FEINSTE Auslese 1959, F.K. Schmidt (Fienste = best
or finest)

Steinberger Beerenauslese 1959 CABINET, Staatsweingutter (Cabinet =
reserve)

Bernkasteler Doctor Auslese Eiswein CHRISTWEIN 1970, Thanisch
(Christwein = day picked). Today this could not be labeled an eiswein,
because an eiswein must be of BA or TBA level, and BA or TBA can not be
included on a label that says eiswein. This change in law was made
several years after 1971.

Scharzhofberger FIENE Auslese NIKOLAUSWEIN 1970, Koch (Fiene = fine;
Nikolauswein = day picked).

Both Schloss Johannisberger and Schloss Vollrads have long used a
complicated system of capsule colors and stripes. Schloss Johannisberger
has used a coat-of-arms label with their regular line and a view of the
Schloss looking up from the river on their top line. J. J. Prum has used
gold capsules and long gold capsules to distinguish their better wines.
There are many other examples.

Reply to .

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> Bernkasteler Doctor Auslese Eiswein CHRISTWEIN 1970, Thanisch
> (Christwein = day picked).

December 25th.

> Today this could not be labeled an eiswein, because an eiswein
> must be of BA or TBA level,

Minimum is BA level (as in Austria), with no maximum, of course.

> Scharzhofberger FIENE
^^
FEINE

> Auslese NIKOLAUSWEIN 1970, Koch (Fiene = fine; Nikolauswein =
> day picked). ^^
Feine

December 6th.

M.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> Bernkasteler Doctor Auslese Eiswein CHRISTWEIN 1970, Thanisch
> (Christwein = day picked).

December 25th.

> Today this could not be labeled an eiswein, because an eiswein
> must be of BA or TBA level,

Minimum is BA level (as in Austria), with no maximum, of course.

> Scharzhofberger FIENE
^^
FEINE

> Auslese NIKOLAUSWEIN 1970, Koch (Fiene = fine; Nikolauswein =
> day picked). ^^
Feine
December 6th.

M.