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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 06:51 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tasting

Comparative 'tastings' are intended for professionals in the wine
trade: buyers, distributors, reviewers, etc.

Amateur wine 'enthusiasts' will get nothing from such 'tastings'.

A wine that amateurs may find unappealing in a 'tasting' setting may be
perfect with a meal, but the professional will recognize this and judge
accordingly. The amateur does not have the experience and knowledge to
judge wines this way.

Wines are meant to accompany meals. Outside of that context, judging
them is a complete waste of time for amateurs.

Amateurs should drink wines with meals. This is the intended final
destination of the product, and it is in this context ONLY that it
should be judged by amateurs.

I drink wine often, almost always Italian. Yet I would not consider
myself capable of judging any of the MANY Italian wines with which I am
familiar outside of the meal context. If you placed 10 Barolos or
Chiantis before me to taste alone, without a roast or steak, I would
refuse to offer any opinion. Anything I would say about them would be
worthless, and this would apply equally to every other amateur.


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:14 PM
Art Stratemeyer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi,

While I will be the first to say that wine is truly made to accompany
food as opposed to standing on it's own singular merits.

However ... yep .. there is always a "but" ....

I think , comparative tastings ... albeit formal ones or ones held at
a wine store are truly valuable to all ... beginner and so-called
"expert" alike.

I will take your example of Barolo ..... however this could equally
apply to a cab, chard ...etc.

One of the distinct benefits of tastings without food is to be able to
judge ( in you opinion and on your pallate .. not according to
"experts" ) how each wine compares in its quality and in representing
the varietal that it is made from.

Food, inevitably masks the ability to make the comparison.

When comparing the 10 barolos ... what is the balance of each, the
acidity, the way the tannins "feel" in your mouth, the length,
complexity and so on.

You might find Vintner A's to be really thin .. Vintner B's to be way
too tannic and so one.

If a wine is "out of balance" ( again to your taste ) with out food
.... it will not come "in balance" with food.

As you drink more .. and have more with your meals, you will come to
know the characteristics of a given Barolo that makes it enjoyable to
you. Once you have a grasp of these, then at such comparative
tastings you will be able to, if nothing else, quickly weed out those
that you know you won't like.

Don't worry if ... at such tastings you hear people give descriptions
of the wine that is in exact opposite to what you are sensing. This
happens to me all the time and is the source for lots of great
arguments ( or "discussions ).

Finally there is the economic benefit. Let's say you want to try a
new Barolo that you've not had and you already know some of the
characteristic of one's you've tired and don't like. Then the
comparative tasting at least gives you much better odds of bringing
home a wine you will enjoy instead of spending your money and "hoping"


Art Stratemeyer
=============================
http://www.stratsplace.com
A Community Celebration the Joy of Wine,Gardening and the Arts

Cellar! Wine Software
http://www.cellarwinesoftware.com
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:20 PM
 
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Default

It is entirely possible (indeed probable) that a wine tasted alone
would come off poorly compared to others tasted alone, but fare much
better when drunk with a meal. Food changes everything.

  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 08:37 PM
Art Stratemeyer
 
Posts: n/a
Default

oooops ........ guilty ........ chuckle

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 21:27:42 +0100, Mike Tommasi
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:14:08 GMT, Art Stratemeyer
wrote:

Hi,

While I will be the first to say that wine is truly made to accompany
food as opposed to standing on it's own singular merits.


Hi Art,

OK, so you are a newbie Art ;-)))))

Do not answer this troll



Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail


Art Stratemeyer
=============================
http://www.stratsplace.com
A Community Celebration the Joy of Wine,Gardening and the Arts

Cellar! Wine Software
http://www.cellarwinesoftware.com
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 11:20 PM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Mike Tommasi wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:14:08 GMT, Art Stratemeyer
wrote:

Hi,

While I will be the first to say that wine is truly made to

accompany
food as opposed to standing on it's own singular merits.


Hi Art,

OK, so you are a newbie Art ;-)))))

Do not answer this troll



Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail




I don't believe he was adressing you, Mikey.

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-02-2005, 11:25 PM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Steve Slatcher wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 11:20:15 -0800, wrote:

It is entirely possible (indeed probable) that a wine tasted alone
would come off poorly compared to others tasted alone, but fare much
better when drunk with a meal. Food changes everything.


Which the experienced amateur realises. And which many

professionals
seem to miss when awarding points.

You are right to point out the importance of food, but whether the
taster is being paid or not is irrelevent.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

The explosion of 'tasting' by inexperienced, uneducated, unqualified
people, who don't know the first thing about the relationship between
food and wine is the problem I am addressing. People asking questions
about the proper 'technique' for tasting is indicative of this cultural
disease. If you have to ask, you have no business doing it.....

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-02-2005, 01:24 AM
pavane
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...

The explosion of 'tasting' by inexperienced, uneducated, unqualified
people, who don't know the first thing about the relationship between
food and wine is the problem I am addressing. People asking questions
about the proper 'technique' for tasting is indicative of this cultural
disease. If you have to ask, you have no business doing it.....


Do you always talk to yourself???

pavane


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-02-2005, 01:48 AM
dolo
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"pavane" wrote in news:UkeNd.24231
:

snip

delurk
from http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
"What is a Troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the
Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset
people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for
their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are
hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human
but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow
whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering
they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the
moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise).
You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or
compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel
remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules
of courtesy or social responsibility.

Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is
something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be
changed by mere words."

And most importantly:
"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding
others not to respond to trolls."

Thank you for your attention. Please do not feed the troll.

/delurk




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-02-2005, 02:00 AM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default


dolo wrote:
"pavane" wrote in

news:UkeNd.24231
:

snip

delurk
from http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
"What is a Troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the


Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and

upset
people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for
their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are
hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite

human
but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no

sorrow
whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the

suffering
they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the
moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or

otherwise).
You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame

or
compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel
remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the

rules
of courtesy or social responsibility.

Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is
something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can

not be
changed by mere words."

And most importantly:
"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to

reminding
others not to respond to trolls."

Thank you for your attention. Please do not feed the troll.

/delurk


There is so much absolute bullshit being bandied about that it is
impossible to stand by and watch. 'Sowing discord'? Oh, you must mean
what I call pointing out that popular opinion rests on myths and
falsehoods.

I have nothing but contempt for most of poular culture.

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-02-2005, 05:53 AM
Joe Rosenberg
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mr Uranium:

Your petty chauvinism and arrogance is unacceptable to valid discourse on
wine (and pairings with food), Because you feel that no wine should be
decanted or imbibed without a repast does not make you any better or worse,

Since you talk about Italian customs, I have visited Italian wineries almost
a dozen times and have tasted with Angelo Gaja, Renato Ratti, Elio Altare,
Pio Boffa, Elvio Cogno, Antonio Vallana, Giuseppe Quintarelli, Count
Bonacossi, the fratelli Cerreto, the Currados of Vietta, Sig Bianchi of
Monsanto, Count Pasolini, Antonio Mastroberadino + + + +. Most of these
occasions were without a meal and often if time permitted preceded a meal.
I'm sorry sir but no one ever told me that it was improper in Italy to drink
without a meal. I agree that food always enhances wine but to evaluate a
wines' quality only neutral flavors are appropriate. I also have spent time
in the Rhone & Burgundy and observed not just Americans indulging in
tastings at wineries but French, Swiss and Germans. Perhaps they did not
know the you sir, the deluded poobah of Columbus. would disapprove of their
behavior.

Since the early 1980's wine appreciation has grown here in the "colonies"
and as a wine educator I've always taught that there is no wrong wine or
wrong way of appreciating wine. I've endeavored to take the mystery and
foolish ritual out wine tasting.

We always have "newbies" joining the board and asking for guidance and we,
and I include the two Michaels, St Helier, Mark, Dale, Ian, Tom S and other
"regulars" have learned to be patient and have even created a FAQ page
covering netiquette and current topics to help the beginner.

All you do, sir, is engage in trollish behavior.

If you look at the TV or read, you will see much more disturbing things for
us to deal with then your "issues". If spectator sports is the toy
department of our conscious minds, then wine appreciation is the playpen and
crib.

I think we should start a collection and buy you a pacifier and a six pack
of zoloft if you persist in being so infantile.

--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg
wrote in message
oups.com...

dolo wrote:
"pavane" wrote in

news:UkeNd.24231
:

snip

delurk
from http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
"What is a Troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the


Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and

upset
people.

Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for
their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are
hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite

human
but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no

sorrow
whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the

suffering
they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the
moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or

otherwise).
You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame

or
compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel
remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the

rules
of courtesy or social responsibility.

Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is
something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can

not be
changed by mere words."

And most importantly:
"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to

reminding
others not to respond to trolls."

Thank you for your attention. Please do not feed the troll.

/delurk


There is so much absolute bullshit being bandied about that it is
impossible to stand by and watch. 'Sowing discord'? Oh, you must mean
what I call pointing out that popular opinion rests on myths and
falsehoods.

I have nothing but contempt for most of poular culture.



  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-02-2005, 08:27 AM
Ian Hoare
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Salut/Hi Midlife,

le/on Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:09:44 -0800, tu disais/you said:-


Not sure why it's so hard to do, but it is absolutely certain that the one
and only thing that will eventually wear out this guy is that his posts ARE
NEVER....Repeat NEVER...... responded to directly.



Well said.

PLEASE folks, we've seen enough, NEVER, ever reply directly.

If you can't kill-file him (my news client won't do it)


Get Agent (s****** CTRL-K and the poster becomes invisible.)

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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