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Old 04-12-2004, 06:23 PM
clinresearcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wine cellar temperature problem

Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR
unit?

Thanks for your help!

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2004, 11:40 PM
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default

clinresearcher wrote:
Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR
unit?


Keep in mind that the conversion of a BTU rating to a room capacity is
entirely dependent on the ambient temperature and humidity of the air.
The BTU rating tells you simply how much total cooling (as degree-ft^3)
you can get out of the unit. I would suspect that the published cu-ft
capacity is based on an assumption of 70 F ambient air temp and 70% rel
humidity. (Because the heat capacity of water is so much greater than
that of air, more humid air takes much more energy to cool).

With that preamble out of the way, adding a second cooling unit, or
upgrading the one you've got, will almost certainly fix the problem,
albeit at a price. Since it's mostly a matter of BTUs, you get more
bang for the buck with the ChillR, but I can't comment on its quality.
As for why your Whisperkool isn't up to the task, it could be a poorly
insulated floor (concrete slab?) and high soil temperature, or possibly
just too high a humidity.

HTH
Mark Lipton
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:47 PM
Hunt
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , [email protected]
..com says...

Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR


Bummer! My cellar is quite a bit different, with one exterior wall, though a
North facing, heavily shaded, and heavily insulated one. At roughly 1000 cu
ft, I up-sized to Whisperkool 8000 and even in AZ Summers I hold 55-56 F. My
door, which is in the exterior wall, was down-sized from original to 30" and I
got the most heavily insulated one that I could locate. I added 2.5" of foam
in a box, attached to the door's interior, and it barely fits through the
frame, when I close it. It's weather-stripped all the way around. I had wanted
a light in the door, but could not find anyone doing a triple-paned light, so
opted for solid and added as much foam as I could. In your case, I'd really
look at the door. I know you placed foam over the light, but I'd hold it
suspect - first. So far, knocking on all wood I can find, my Whisperkool has
run flawlessly, after one false-start initially. So, my second thought would
be to up-size the cooling unit. I only paid about US$1600 for the 8K, but that
WAS 6 years ago. K&L Wines (wwwlklwines.com) often has their Whisperkools on
sale, and they'd always done well by me. I deal with Ralph Sands in the
Redwood City store. Might want to shop the prices a bit. I also think that
most of the units will fit into the hole for the others - check me out on this
one. Sorry, that I have no experience with ChillR. BUT I do understand spousal
wrath!!!!!

Good luck on your problem. Again, Major Bummer!

Hunt
unit?

Thanks for your help!


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2004, 06:47 PM
Hunt
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , [email protected]
..com says...

Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR


Bummer! My cellar is quite a bit different, with one exterior wall, though a
North facing, heavily shaded, and heavily insulated one. At roughly 1000 cu
ft, I up-sized to Whisperkool 8000 and even in AZ Summers I hold 55-56 F. My
door, which is in the exterior wall, was down-sized from original to 30" and I
got the most heavily insulated one that I could locate. I added 2.5" of foam
in a box, attached to the door's interior, and it barely fits through the
frame, when I close it. It's weather-stripped all the way around. I had wanted
a light in the door, but could not find anyone doing a triple-paned light, so
opted for solid and added as much foam as I could. In your case, I'd really
look at the door. I know you placed foam over the light, but I'd hold it
suspect - first. So far, knocking on all wood I can find, my Whisperkool has
run flawlessly, after one false-start initially. So, my second thought would
be to up-size the cooling unit. I only paid about US$1600 for the 8K, but that
WAS 6 years ago. K&L Wines (wwwlklwines.com) often has their Whisperkools on
sale, and they'd always done well by me. I deal with Ralph Sands in the
Redwood City store. Might want to shop the prices a bit. I also think that
most of the units will fit into the hole for the others - check me out on this
one. Sorry, that I have no experience with ChillR. BUT I do understand spousal
wrath!!!!!

Good luck on your problem. Again, Major Bummer!

Hunt
unit?

Thanks for your help!


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2004, 02:34 PM
gerald
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Check what temp of air coming out of cooler is, and see if it is
within spec. If it is blowing 61, do not expect 53.

close to 20% of your outside surface is floor. what's the ambient
summer temp of the floor?

The door is 5% of your total area. Why not get an insulated door. If
in the US, go to Home Depot or Lowe's, and get a mistake. They have
lots of them.

On 4 Dec 2004 09:23:09 -0800, (clinresearcher)
wrote:

Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR
unit?

Thanks for your help!




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2004, 02:34 PM
gerald
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Check what temp of air coming out of cooler is, and see if it is
within spec. If it is blowing 61, do not expect 53.

close to 20% of your outside surface is floor. what's the ambient
summer temp of the floor?

The door is 5% of your total area. Why not get an insulated door. If
in the US, go to Home Depot or Lowe's, and get a mistake. They have
lots of them.

On 4 Dec 2004 09:23:09 -0800, (clinresearcher)
wrote:

Hi-I have a 1300 bottle cellar built during a basement renovation by a
general contractor. Problem is that temp rises to roughly 62-63 deg
during summer, despite cooler set at 57, which runs almost constantly
(bsmt is airconditioned to around 77 summertime). Once basement cools
off for winter (into high 60's), it cools down to set temp of 57.

Specs--8x6x6 ft, 384 c.f., with Whisperkool 3000 cooler, sized
properly based on cubic footage, all interior walls in air conditioned
basement. Contractor swears insulation was up to spec R13 walls R30
ceiling. Wood door with single (I know that's wrong) pane glass-but I
tried covering the glass with foam insulation board to see if that was
problem but temps stayed up.

I've thought of several possible fixes:
1) Upsize to larger Whisperkool, say 4200 BTU ($1600)
2) Add small second cooler, like the new ChillR units at Wine
Enthusiast, maybe the 1500 or 2000 BTU unit ($500 plus install)
3) Try a double paned glass door despite my experiment ($1000-2000?)
4) Tear up drywall and check insulation ($thousands plus spousal
wrath)

Suggestions? How much bigger a Whisperkool if I did that (is there a
disadvantage to an overly large unit?). Anyone have experience with a
ChillR
unit?

Thanks for your help!




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