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Old 28-02-2019, 11:11 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Is there a difference between biodynamic and organic?

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Old 01-03-2019, 02:53 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 2/28/19 4:11 PM, RichD wrote:
Is there a difference between biodynamic and organic?

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Rich

Yeah about $10,000
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:59 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 2019-02-28 3:11 p.m., RichD wrote:
Is there a difference between biodynamic and organic?

--
Rich

The former is a mix of pseudoscience and astrology. The latter has some
credibility as it seeks to minimise the use of pesticides and fungicides.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:10 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 2/28/19 8:59 PM, graham wrote:
On 2019-02-28 3:11 p.m., RichD wrote:



The former is a mix of pseudoscience and astrology. The latter has some
credibility as it seeks to minimise the use of pesticides and fungicides.


Just to be clear, the former is based on the teachings of Rudolf
Steiner, who combined various historically based agricultural practices
with his own astrological explanations. The latter is based on the
IFOAM standards and certification, which have mostly amounted to
elimination of chemical pesticides and fertilizers in agriculture.

Although most people I know dismiss various aspects of biodynamie as
woo-woo pseudoscience, it is also true that many of my favorite
producers do follow biodynamic practices. From my conversations with
them, it seems that the prevailing attitude is "it doesn't do any harm,
and I like the way my wines turn out using it."

Underlying both approaches is the idea of soil health and biodynamic
practices do more for soil health than most of the organic
certifications do. For instance, you can be organic and still do
machine harvesting and tilling of the fields, resulting in soil
compression. Additionally, a lot of organic agriculture merely
substitutes "natural" fertilizer (animal dung) and pesticides (marigold
extract) for chemical equivalents and it's not entirely clear how much
benefit is derived from this substitution.

As we've learned more about what's going in the soil, it's clear that
mycorrhizomal health is an integral part of vine health so it makes
sense to do as little as possible to root structure and mycorrhizae.

Mark Lipton
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 3/1/19 3:10 PM, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 2/28/19 8:59 PM, graham wrote:
On 2019-02-28 3:11 p.m., RichD wrote:



The former is a mix of pseudoscience and astrology. The latter has some
credibility as it seeks to minimise the use of pesticides and fungicides.


Just to be clear, the former is based on the teachings of Rudolf
Steiner, who combined various historically based agricultural practices
with his own astrological explanations. The latter is based on the
IFOAM standards and certification, which have mostly amounted to
elimination of chemical pesticides and fertilizers in agriculture.

Although most people I know dismiss various aspects of biodynamie as
woo-woo pseudoscience, it is also true that many of my favorite
producers do follow biodynamic practices. From my conversations with
them, it seems that the prevailing attitude is "it doesn't do any harm,
and I like the way my wines turn out using it."

Underlying both approaches is the idea of soil health and biodynamic
practices do more for soil health than most of the organic
certifications do. For instance, you can be organic and still do
machine harvesting and tilling of the fields, resulting in soil
compression. Additionally, a lot of organic agriculture merely
substitutes "natural" fertilizer (animal dung) and pesticides (marigold
extract) for chemical equivalents and it's not entirely clear how much
benefit is derived from this substitution.

As we've learned more about what's going in the soil, it's clear that
mycorrhizomal health is an integral part of vine health so it makes
sense to do as little as possible to root structure and mycorrhizae.

Mark Lipton

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


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Old 01-03-2019, 11:40 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 2019-03-01 2:10 p.m., Mark Lipton wrote:
On 2/28/19 8:59 PM, graham wrote:
On 2019-02-28 3:11 p.m., RichD wrote:



The former is a mix of pseudoscience and astrology. The latter has some
credibility as it seeks to minimise the use of pesticides and fungicides.


Just to be clear, the former is based on the teachings of Rudolf
Steiner, who combined various historically based agricultural practices
with his own astrological explanations.


But had, apparently, never been on a farm when he formulated them.

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Old 04-03-2019, 06:00 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 3/1/19 4:52 PM, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


True nuff, Larry. But you don't have to be Demeter-certified to
practice biodynamics, so few of my favorite producers are.

Mark Lipton


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Old 04-03-2019, 10:31 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default righteous farming

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 12:00:27 PM UTC-5, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 3/1/19 4:52 PM, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


True nuff, Larry. But you don't have to be Demeter-certified to
practice biodynamics, so few of my favorite producers are.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: RIP cwdjrx


Late to this, but (I think like Mark) I regard some of the practices as hooey, and recognize Steiner's flaws. Yet a significant percentage of my favorite producers do Bio-D, and I'm ok with that.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:02 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 3/4/19 11:00 AM, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 3/1/19 4:52 PM, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


True nuff, Larry. But you don't have to be Demeter-certified to
practice biodynamics, so few of my favorite producers are.

Mark Lipton


True, but many are certified.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:03 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On 3/4/19 3:31 PM, DaleW wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 12:00:27 PM UTC-5, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 3/1/19 4:52 PM, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


True nuff, Larry. But you don't have to be Demeter-certified to
practice biodynamics, so few of my favorite producers are.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: RIP cwdjrx


Late to this, but (I think like Mark) I regard some of the practices as hooey, and recognize Steiner's flaws. Yet a significant percentage of my favorite producers do Bio-D, and I'm ok with that.

I appreciate biodynamic farming just not thrilled with the Demeter
certification.


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Old 05-03-2019, 06:01 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default righteous farming

On 2019-03-04 9:02 p.m., Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
On 3/4/19 11:00 AM, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 3/1/19 4:52 PM, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

While I agree with the approach, I find the $10,000 charge that Demeter
charges to use the designation fairly outrageous.


True nuff, Larry.* But you don't have to be Demeter-certified to
practice biodynamics, so few of my favorite producers are.

Mark Lipton


True, but many are certified.

And if they believe even half of Steiner's teachings, they are also
certifiable!


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