This is just a heads up in case anyone has prearrival (or instock) wine at Premier Cru in Berkeley.

I started buying wine at Premier Cru (in Emeryville at that point ) in late 90s -based on recommendations from WLDG and alt.food.wine. Often best prices in nation, reasonable shipping charges, good condition bottles. Most of what I bought was instock, most prearrivals arrived in a reasonably timely manner. I had a couple of orders that they alerted me there was a problem with, but reasonable substitutions were made.

In about 2005 I (and several others) mentioned PC as a good source on AFW. A longterm Bay area person contacted me to say he had a friend who had been shorted a top Burgundy when price had skyrocketed in late 80s. We had a disagreement over whether I was morally culpable by continuing to buy at PC, but after that I noted others' poor experiences whenever I was asked about PC, though I had always had everything delivered.

About this time there seemed to me to be a shift in percentage of great deals - previously they had weekly blasts with good deals, with once a month or so some real steals. Mostly those deals were instock. But now Bordeaux futures and pre-arrival trophy Burg seemed to dominate the real steals. And wait times people reported seemed to get longer. By the 2007/2008 financial crisis I didn't want to be an unsecured creditor, traded my couple bottles of overdue PA stuff for instock (at a substantial loss to current value of PA stuff, but a plus for my peace of mind) and started limiting my PC buying to an occasional instock wine (and only did limited prearrival anywhere, primarily with stores where I knew owners personally like Grapes the Wine Company and Chambers St Wines). And started advising others to do same. When PC bought own building and moved to Berkeley in 2010, many pointed to it as a sign of financial health. But I wondered would bank really understand extent of PA owed- PC's business was unlike any other.

Things churned along, and the % of PA to instock kept shifting in offers. They'd do 20 and 25% off sales, but you'd scroll past 50 or 60 prearrival items, and there would be 4 or 5 instock (and the more expensive instock were in small quantities). Last few years (especially last 6 months) in debate on another forum I've been a vocal "doubter" (along with many others, particularly some in the business who know realities of pricing) as sales offers went past my ability to suspend disbelief. Others defended, based on idea that "in the end they had always delivered." Rumors of slow payments, deals that were never consumated because PC didn't pay, etc convinced me that things were not well. Then the volume of sales emails picked up, and the hard-to-believe PA stuff dominated. Things like futures of 2014 Bdx at 10-15% under negociant cost, prearrival recent Fourrier and Ponsot at 25% less than lowest WS Pro, and prearrival of things like 2002 Comtes, '89 Clinet, '90 Petrus (in case or 2 case quantities) at less than auction net to seller. I only had some (not very expensive) instock bottles that were ordered over 2 years (finally enough to ship) but decided not to wait for October. When Betsy went to CA, got stepson to pick up my bottles (and pay sales tax) and and Betsy checked a case when she returned. I offered a couple of weeks ago to bet a friend that PC (at 3:1 odds) would be in bankruptcy within a year. He accepted, but we never set terms, and I am glad about that, as I wouldn't want to take his money or wine, and think at moment I'd give 10:1 odds

Because info that emerged over last week is far worse than what I expected:
A lawsuit by Lawrence Wai-Man Hui for almost a million dollars in undelivered wine (with repeated missed deadline)
Several other lawsuits, including one from Dr. Shirlin Wong for more than $200K (apparently now with a writ of attachment)
A few other smaller lawsuits
A past due property taxes of $125K.
A lien from the Board of Equalization (sounds like sales tax)

Tax liens, writs of attachment, lawsuits of customers seeking to become secured creditors is not good news. It's possible there are multiple containers of highend Bdx, Burgs, and Champagne about to arrive in Port of Oakland and everything will be cool, but it's also possible that I'll win the Megamillions drawing even though I buy maybe one ticket a year. I wouldn't count on either. I'd encourage anyone who has wine at PC to think about getting it shipped or picked up ASAP. If anyone has pre-arrival wine, possibly think about contacting your credit card company now. Or maybe converting to instock.

Hopefully this is wasted typing, and no one here is waiting on Premier Cru to deliver!

Seems like a similar situation to what happened to 1855.com in Europe. It
did not end well.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 18:34:34 +0000, santiago wrote:

> Seems like a similar situation to what happened to 1855.com in Europe.
> It did not end well.

Yikes. Not over yet, I suspect the formerly lionized founders of 1855
will end up in the hoosgow. Funny the 1855.com site now leads to a spiel
about the classification...

Sorry to hear about PC, was always a Bay Area standby.



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Questions about wine? Check the FAQ. http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 5:58:48 PM UTC-4, DaleW wrote:
> This is just a heads up in case anyone has prearrival (or instock) wine at Premier Cru in Berkeley.
>
> I started buying wine at Premier Cru (in Emeryville at that point ) in late 90s -based on recommendations from WLDG and alt.food.wine. Often best prices in nation, reasonable shipping charges, good condition bottles. Most of what I bought was instock, most prearrivals arrived in a reasonably timely manner. I had a couple of orders that they alerted me there was a problem with, but reasonable substitutions were made.
>
> In about 2005 I (and several others) mentioned PC as a good source on AFW.. A longterm Bay area person contacted me to say he had a friend who had been shorted a top Burgundy when price had skyrocketed in late 80s. We had a disagreement over whether I was morally culpable by continuing to buy at PC, but after that I noted others' poor experiences whenever I was asked about PC, though I had always had everything delivered.
>
> About this time there seemed to me to be a shift in percentage of great deals - previously they had weekly blasts with good deals, with once a month or so some real steals. Mostly those deals were instock. But now Bordeaux futures and pre-arrival trophy Burg seemed to dominate the real steals. And wait times people reported seemed to get longer. By the 2007/2008 financial crisis I didn't want to be an unsecured creditor, traded my couple bottles of overdue PA stuff for instock (at a substantial loss to current value of PA stuff, but a plus for my peace of mind) and started limiting my PC buying to an occasional instock wine (and only did limited prearrival anywhere, primarily with stores where I knew owners personally like Grapes the Wine Company and Chambers St Wines). And started advising others to do same. When PC bought own building and moved to Berkeley in 2010, many pointed to it as a sign of financial health. But I wondered would bank really understand extent of PA owed- PC's business was unlike any other.
>
> Things churned along, and the % of PA to instock kept shifting in offers. They'd do 20 and 25% off sales, but you'd scroll past 50 or 60 prearrival items, and there would be 4 or 5 instock (and the more expensive instock were in small quantities). Last few years (especially last 6 months) in debate on another forum I've been a vocal "doubter" (along with many others, particularly some in the business who know realities of pricing) as sales offers went past my ability to suspend disbelief. Others defended, based on idea that "in the end they had always delivered." Rumors of slow payments, deals that were never consumated because PC didn't pay, etc convinced me that things were not well. Then the volume of sales emails picked up, and the hard-to-believe PA stuff dominated. Things like futures of 2014 Bdx at 10-15% under negociant cost, prearrival recent Fourrier and Ponsot at 25% less than lowest WS Pro, and prearrival of things like 2002 Comtes, '89 Clinet, '90 Petrus (in case or 2 case quantities) at less than auction net to seller.. I only had some (not very expensive) instock bottles that were ordered over 2 years (finally enough to ship) but decided not to wait for October. When Betsy went to CA, got stepson to pick up my bottles (and pay sales tax) and and Betsy checked a case when she returned. I offered a couple of weeks ago to bet a friend that PC (at 3:1 odds) would be in bankruptcy within a year. He accepted, but we never set terms, and I am glad about that, as I wouldn't want to take his money or wine, and think at moment I'd give 10:1 odds
>
> Because info that emerged over last week is far worse than what I expected:
> A lawsuit by Lawrence Wai-Man Hui for almost a million dollars in undelivered wine (with repeated missed deadline)
> Several other lawsuits, including one from Dr. Shirlin Wong for more than $200K (apparently now with a writ of attachment)
> A few other smaller lawsuits
> A past due property taxes of $125K.
> A lien from the Board of Equalization (sounds like sales tax)
>
> Tax liens, writs of attachment, lawsuits of customers seeking to become secured creditors is not good news. It's possible there are multiple containers of highend Bdx, Burgs, and Champagne about to arrive in Port of Oakland and everything will be cool, but it's also possible that I'll win the Megamillions drawing even though I buy maybe one ticket a year. I wouldn't count on either. I'd encourage anyone who has wine at PC to think about getting it shipped or picked up ASAP. If anyone has pre-arrival wine, possibly think about contacting your credit card company now. Or maybe converting to instock.
>
> Hopefully this is wasted typing, and no one here is waiting on Premier Cru to deliver!

I quit doing business with them a number of years ago. Too many "errors" and issues.

New story
http://www.contracostatimes.com/breakin ... iness-over

I noticed last night for first time in at least 6 months I didn't get a "fantastic" (in multiple senses) weekend PA offer (or 3).

PC's total in stock SKUs are less than 300. Of that, 3 BOTTLES (not SKUs) are over $100- 2 6L Silver Oaks for $650 and a low fill Ridge Rudy Cabernet for $199. The long promised Champagne container (1st quarter 2015, then spring, then Sept/Oct. then Nov "In port waiting loading") is now not coming till "next year."

I doubt they make it to 2016. I also expect criminal charges. The big question is what the final estimate on debt/undelivered wine will be. I'll guess $40 Million. I've heard one estimate of $100Mill!

On 12/7/15 11:28 AM, DaleW wrote:
> New story http://www.contracostatimes.com/breakin ... iness-over
>
> I noticed last night for first time in at least 6 months I didn't get
> a "fantastic" (in multiple senses) weekend PA offer (or 3).
>
> PC's total in stock SKUs are less than 300. Of that, 3 BOTTLES (not
> SKUs) are over $100- 2 6L Silver Oaks for $650 and a low fill Ridge
> Rudy Cabernet for $199. The long promised Champagne container (1st
> quarter 2015, then spring, then Sept/Oct. then Nov "In port waiting
> loading") is now not coming till "next year."
>
> I doubt they make it to 2016. I also expect criminal charges. The big
> question is what the final estimate on debt/undelivered wine will be.
> I'll guess $40 Million. I've heard one estimate of $100Mill!
>

Wow, what a cluster****. I feel bad for everyone involved. BTW, your
link didn't come though intact. I guess that Google strips some of the
info to discourage spamming.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 12:31:41 PM UTC-5, Mark Lipton wrote:
> >
>
> Wow, what a cluster****. I feel bad for everyone involved. BTW, your
> link didn't come though intact. I guess that Google strips some of the
> info to discourage spamming.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Thanks for pointing out.
If anyone interested, here's a shortened URL
http://goo.gl/r4lBgT

Yes, I feel bad for everyone involved (well, except John Fox)

DaleW wrote:

> Thanks for pointing out.
> If anyone interested, here's a shortened URL
> http://goo.gl/r4lBgT

Beginner question:

"Feng, who had planned to flip the wine once he received it …"

What does this mean, please?

Paul Magnussen

On 12/8/15 11:51 AM, Paul Magnussen wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
>
>> Thanks for pointing out. If anyone interested, here's a shortened URL
>> http://goo.gl/r4lBgT
>
> Beginner question:
>
> "Feng, who had planned to flip the wine once he received it …"
>
> What does this mean, please?

"Flipping" is a term for buying a commodity (often a house) and then
rapidly reselling it at profit.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Ouch. Has gotten worse. Apparently now not allowing orders (at least under 2 years) to be converted to store credit. And this was posted on a wine board:
Have 9 bottles of Billecart NV Rose' on pre-arrival (among others). Low and behold, I see 16 bottles in stock for sale @ $76. Call and ask (then demand) they fulfill my 2 yo pre-arrival order before selling. I was told these are not my bottles, but are new ones bought at a higher price to sell. They refused to fill my back order with these bottles. Only offer was to to cash out my bottles (@ $46) and re-buy at $76.

Now that sucks.

PC filed for bankruptcy Fri.
Mindblowing numbers:
Assets of $7M, liabilities of $70M
between 5000 and 10,000 unsecured creditors

I'll assume criminal charges will be announced soon

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J...NJWnZleGs/view

On 1/11/16 9:04 AM, DaleW wrote:
> PC filed for bankruptcy Fri.
> Mindblowing numbers:
> Assets of $7M, liabilities of $70M
> between 5000 and 10,000 unsecured creditors
>
> I'll assume criminal charges will be announced soon
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J...NJWnZleGs/view
>

I find it interesting that it's a Chapter 7 filing. I am not well
versed in the subtleties of bankruptcy code, but this seems to be a
measure of last resort.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 11:56:02 AM UTC-5, Mark Lipton wrote:
> On 1/11/16 9:04 AM, DaleW wrote:
> > PC filed for bankruptcy Fri.
> > Mindblowing numbers:
> > Assets of $7M, liabilities of $70M
> > between 5000 and 10,000 unsecured creditors
> >
> > I'll assume criminal charges will be announced soon
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8J...NJWnZleGs/view
> >
>
> I find it interesting that it's a Chapter 7 filing. I am not well
> versed in the subtleties of bankruptcy code, but this seems to be a
> measure of last resort.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
Well, I think with assets 10% of debts would be pointless to file for Chap 11

A summary of story till now
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/bu...er.html?src=me

John Fox reportedly to plead guilty to fraud today
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/08/09/ ... -to-fraud/