Wednesday I took bus to Boston and Amtrak to Stamford. 2 delays, but a friend picked me up and I was home by 7, then headed to office for a bit. Too tired/late to cook, so went by supermarket for a rotisserie bird, but they were out. So I got broccoli, salad, and (gasp) a Lean Cuisine lemongrass chicken box. Wine was better than the dinner.
2012 Zilliken Saarburger Rausch Riesling Kabinett- Lots of sugar, more Spat than Kab, but with nerve and verve. Limey citrus, green apple, taut finish.. A-/B+

Thursday I grilled salmon and squash, and sauteed chard and green beans from our garden. Wine was the regular 2011 Coudert/Roillete Fleurie. Red fruits, lots of spicy notes, good long finish. I'll drink these while waiting on theTardive. B+

Friday I invited a few friends for dinner, I set up on patio, but Rosie said it was too cold out (in August!). So we moved inside as we tried the Nicolas Feuillatte Brut Extrem' Champagne . Tart with lemon, more lemon, and unripe green apple, this is really too austere for my tastes. C+

I had made caprese and a lobster salad, grilled some ribeyes and corn, Jonathan had brought broccoli rabe and eggplant.

2009 Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay Kabinett
Roger is German so I thought he'd appreciate this. Sweet, tasty, but maybe a touch one-dimensional (or maybe a little shutdown). B

2007 deux Montille "Boucheres" Meursault 1er
Good match with the lobster, good acids, mineral and pear, big but not ungainly. B+

2010 Parusso Barolo
Decanted about 2 hours before dinner. Red fruit, herby, lighter styled Nebbiolo, some tannin, easygoing. B

Saturday I walked to a friend's house, three of us who were baching it had dinner on the deck. With home smoked trout, the 2009 Wind Gap "Gap's Crown" Chardonnay. One of the better CA chards I've had in a while- no butter, only a faint hint of vanilla, good acids, bright and pure white pit fruits. Good length. B+/A-

2010 Beso di Vino - really not my style, jammy dark fruits, sweet, short, manipulated. C/C+

2010 Paitin "Serra" Barbaresco - modern, but well done, and without heavy oak, just a light glossy sense. Redder fruit, balanced acids, easy. B

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

> 2010 Parusso Barolo
>
> Decanted about 2 hours before dinner. Red fruit, herby, lighter styled Nebbiolo, some tannin, easygoing. B

I imagine this tasted more like a barbaresco? Reminds me of a discussion I had with a wine merchant. Wther Barolo was a heavy or light bodied wine. Particularly grading the "bodiness" versus amarone and brunello. I place them heavy to light: amarone, brunello, barolo. And that merchant says barolo, amarone, brunello. I told him, well maybe I only had lightbodied barolos, so show me one that is as heavy as you claim. And I bought 2005 Barolo Massolino and it was light as I expected.
Another merchant in that store claimed another time there's more lead in spiegelau (6%) glasses than riedel (25%). and he also claimed that "Bujanda, Rioja, grand reserva" was not Martinez Bujanda, even though the cork , when I pulled it up, said "Martinez Bujanda".


> 2010 Paitin "Serra" Barbaresco - modern, but well done, and without heavy oak, just a light glossy sense. Redder fruit, balanced acids, easy. B
>

there are oaky barberesco's out there? All the ones I've had were very light, soda pop-like, acidic, boring.

Since you like to taste some italians, have you ever come across the Palari Faro?

Michael Nielsen > wrote in
:

>
> I imagine this tasted more like a barbaresco? Reminds me of a
> discussion I had with a wine merchant. Wther Barolo was a heavy or
> light bodied wine. Particularly grading the "bodiness" versus amarone
> and brunello. I place them heavy to light: amarone, brunello, barolo.
> And that merchant says barolo, amarone, brunello. I told him, well
> maybe I only had lightbodied barolos, so show me one that is as heavy
> as you claim. And I bought 2005 Barolo Massolino and it was light as I
> expected.

I have found several persons supposedly into wine that pay too much attention to tannins
and their perception of tannins contaminates everything in the wine for them. Quite common
for many consumers (and even proffesionals) to mistake tannin for power or body.
>
> there are oaky barberesco's out there? All the ones I've had were very
> light, soda pop-like, acidic, boring.

I like Barbaresco and, while they have not the same structure as Barolo, they are excellent
wines. In Barbaresco you will find modernists (small barrels of new oak) and
traditionalists (large vats of not new slavonian oak) and many degrees in between. Bruno
Rocca is quite modernist to me. As can be the case with Produttori dei Barbaresco.
Fontanafredda Coste Rubin is also quite oaky.

Regards,

s.

On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:22:17 PM UTC+2, santiago wrote:
> I like Barbaresco and, while they have not the same structure as Barolo, they are excellent
>
> wines. In Barbaresco you will find modernists (small barrels of new oak) and
>
> traditionalists (large vats of not new slavonian oak) and many degrees in between. Bruno
>
> Rocca is quite modernist to me. As can be the case with Produttori dei Barbaresco.
>
> Fontanafredda Coste Rubin is also quite oaky.
>

Checked the last one I bought: http://www.hjhansen-vin.dk/2010-barb...rolo-spa-docg/

Its in danish, but it says it is "made in traditional style in big slovenian casks for one year and another year in bottle before release".

So I should look for modern style. It is funny it goes that direction when everyone else seems to be going from oaky towards (in some cases all the way to) unoaked.

On Monday, August 18, 2014 9:22:17 AM UTC-4, santiago wrote:
>In Barbaresco you will find modernists (small barrels of new oak) and
> traditionalists (large vats of not new slavonian oak) and many degrees in between. Bruno
>> Rocca is quite modernist to me. As can be the case with Produttori dei ?Barbaresco.
>

You think the Produttori wines are modern/oaky? Pretty sure 100% old botti, and long macerations.

I'd certainly say that Barbaresco on the whole is a bit lighter than Barolo, but it's an overlapping spectrum, and I doubt anyone could pick out Barolo vs Barbaresco blind reliably.

If you want oak in your Nebbiolo I'd suggest trying Prunotto, Scavino, Sandrone,, A. Conterno,Manzone, Voerzio,Vietti, Pira, Ceretto
Marengo, or Pio Cesare (though not all bottlings of each might be oaky)

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:54:35 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> > 2010 Parusso Barolo
>
> >
>
> > Decanted about 2 hours before dinner. Red fruit, herby, lighter styled Nebbiolo, some tannin, easygoing. B
>
>
>
> I imagine this tasted more like a barbaresco? Reminds me of a discussion I had with a wine merchant. Wther Barolo was a heavy or light bodied wine. Particularly grading the "bodiness" versus amarone and brunello. I place them heavy to light: amarone, brunello, barolo. And that merchant says barolo, amarone, brunello. I told him, well maybe I only had lightbodied barolos, so show me one that is as heavy as you claim. And I bought 2005 Barolo Massolino and it was light as I expected.
>
> Another merchant in that store claimed another time there's more lead in spiegelau (6%) glasses than riedel (25%). and he also claimed that "Bujanda, Rioja, grand reserva" was not Martinez Bujanda, even though the cork , when I pulled it up, said "Martinez Bujanda".
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2010 Paitin "Serra" Barbaresco - modern, but well done, and without heavy oak, just a light glossy sense. Redder fruit, balanced acids, easy. B
>
> >
>
>
>
> there are oaky barberesco's out there? All the ones I've had were very light, soda pop-like, acidic, boring.
>
>
>
> Since you like to taste some italians, have you ever come across the Palari Faro?

"soda pop-like" ? I don't think I've ever had a Barberesco or Barolo that was soda pop-like. For the most part I find them to be powerful wines of finesse and elegance but by no means soda pop-like. For the most part I find the wines of Piedmont need food to bring out the best in them especially foods with richness or fat. Nebbiolo is a grape that to me is much like Pinot Noir. It can be quite powerful yet transparant showing quite a bit of terroir.

DaleW > wrote in
:

> On Monday, August 18, 2014 9:22:17 AM UTC-4, santiago wrote:
>>In Barbaresco you will find modernists (small barrels of new oak) and
>> traditionalists (large vats of not new slavonian oak) and many
>> degrees in between. Bruno
>>> Rocca is quite modernist to me. As can be the case with Produttori
>>> dei ?Barbaresco.
>>
>
> You think the Produttori wines are modern/oaky? Pretty sure 100% old
> botti, and long macerations.

After my previous message, I did some research and found that same
information, but I remember drinking a few crus from 2004, 2005 and found
them with a sort of creamy character that I associated with oak. Oh, well.

s.

On Monday, August 18, 2014 9:20:18 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> "soda pop-like" ? I don't think I've ever had a Barberesco or Barolo that was
>soda pop-like. For the most part I find them to be powerful wines of finesse
>and elegance but by no means soda pop-like. For the most part I find the wines
>of Piedmont need food to bring out the best in them especially foods with
>richness or fat. Nebbiolo is a grape that to me is much like Pinot Noir. It
>can be quite powerful yet transparent showing quite a bit of terroir.

For food I like to make truffle risotto for barolo. For my wife's birthday and it as appetizer and served barolo with it. Lassagna for main dish with brunello.

Yes, I see Barolo as the Bourgogne of Italy. And they are quite good if you pay $50+. I wouldnt call them powerful (except maybe cannubi http://www.invinoveritas99.com/image...00285_300.jpg), but earthy, complex, long.. I once hosted a wine tasting that compared amarone, barolo, chianti, and brunello. My favourite was brunello, and then barolo (Barolo La Morra Batasiolo). Most people preferred the amarone/brunello, so I guess barolo is an acquired taste.

But most Barolo in Denmark is supermarket $15-20 , and barberesco $10-15, that sometimes people I visit are proud they bought because I am a wine geek so they wanted to get something special haha. Those are quite sodapop like.. (maybe they are from hungary and rebottled in piedmont).

But even when I bought the 50$ barbaresco I was very disappointed as I could have gotten a good barolo for that (Id pay 10$ for a wine like that - it had a bit of that sodapop feel from 10$ wines - in USA a danish 10$ wine is probably a 4-5$ wine). I've had some in Italy as well, around $20-30 - I dont remember the names - and they were quite disappointing, too. I can honestly say I havent had a single good barberesco. I've also had sodapopy amarones, even a riserva that was considered "cult status", and I'd have guessed it was a 10$ rosso di valpoliciella, because thats how it tasted. We did debate if it could be counterfeit. That stuff happens a lot in italy.

btw my definition of "sodapopy" does not mean "sweet", but "acidic and tinkly" on the tongue.

DaleW wrote:

> Thursday I grilled salmon and squash, and sauteed chard and green
> beans from our garden. Wine was the regular 2011 Coudert/Roillete
> Fleurie. Red fruits, lots of spicy notes, good long finish. I'll
> drink these while waiting on theTardive. B+

That's nice to hear, Dale. I've got a few of those in the cellar.

> 2010 Parusso Barolo Decanted about 2 hours before dinner. Red fruit,
> herby, lighter styled Nebbiolo, some tannin, easygoing. B
>
> 2010 Paitin "Serra" Barbaresco - modern, but well done, and without
> heavy oak, just a light glossy sense. Redder fruit, balanced acids,
> easy. B

I'm interested by these notes. Where do you place Parusso in the
modernist/traditionalist spectrum? I've seen a few offers for the wines
and haven't bit. Also, is Paitin generally considered modernist? I
didn't have that sense.

Mark Lipton

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:15:59 PM UTC-4, Mark Lipton wrote:
> I'm interested by these notes. Where do you place Parusso in the
> > modernist/traditionalist spectrum? I've seen a few offers for the wines
> > and haven't bit. Also, is Paitin generally considered modernist? I
> > didn't have that sense.
>
I think Parusso is middle of the spectrum, with the single vineyard stuff maybe being too oaky for me, but the base bottling (this one) not showing much wood. For under $25 I'm ok with that.

So I thought Paitin was pretty traditional (and the former cellarmaster at B. Giacosa is there I think!). So was a bit surprised at this wine's showiness, though it wasn't really oaky.