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Old 15-02-2012, 01:25 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

I had only one bottle of Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese
1976, Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville. There were no fill or
cork issues.

The color is bright gold. The bouquet is extremely intense with only
moderate old Riesling character. The bouquet and taste remind me of
very ripe white peaches with some mixed floral character with mixed
spices reminding me of those in pickled peaches, but without any
vinegar character. There also was honey. The wine was rather sweet. In
most other years, I would bet this wine was an auslese if served
blind.

In fact there was so much auslese and above in 1976 that some are
rumored to have sold some of their wine entitled to be called auslese
as spatlese just so they would have some spatlese to sell. So far as I
can determine, this would be quite legal in 1976. There are certain
minimum sugar contents, etc that must be met at the various quality
levels, but there seems to be no restriction in labeling a wine
entitled to be an auslese as a spatlese, since it exceeds the minimum
sugar, etc allowed for a spatlese. Of course I have no way to know if
that was the case for this wine.

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Old 15-02-2012, 04:07 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter


"cwdjrxyz" skrev i melding
...

In fact there was so much auslese and above in 1976 that some are
rumored to have sold some of their wine entitled to be called auslese
as spatlese just so they would have some spatlese to sell. So far as I
can determine, this would be quite legal in 1976.


The above is correct to my knowledge too. The current habit of downclassing
(labeling lower than actual amount of sugar in the juice) was not very
widespread then - but nor was it illegal, and I seem to recall vintners
telling they did so that year.

Another reason for such downclassing is to offer a wine well positioned to
be considered as 'better' than others of same labeling...

Anders


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Old 19-02-2012, 06:48 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

Nice notes.
Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?
As Anders states, I think now and then one only has to meet the minimums, no upper
oechsle limit./
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Old 20-02-2012, 04:08 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

On Feb 19, 12:48*pm, DaleW wrote:
Nice notes.
Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?


The English translation of "Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville"
means that the wine is produced by the State Wine Domain which is
located in Eltville. The question then becomes if there are other
State Domains in the Rheingau than the one at Eltville. There are
several State Wine Domains in Germany. However none of my State Domain
wines from the Rheingau come from other than the State Domain at
Eltville. These include 1976 Erbacher Markobrunn Spatlese, 1976
Steinberger Spatlese, and 1949 Rauenthaler Baiken TBA. Many of the
most famous vineyards were of former church or royal ownership. Also
Germany, until fairly recent times, had powerful, Royal states and
little national rule. Thus it would not surprise me if some wine
region could have more than one state domain in it.

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Old 20-02-2012, 12:47 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter


"cwdjrxyz" skrev i melding ...
On Feb 19, 12:48 pm, DaleW wrote:
Nice notes.
Is there one that more state winery in Rheingau- Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter doesn't look familiar, though I know I have had wines from state winery?


-The English translation of "Verwaltung der Staatsweinguter, Eltville"
-means that the wine is produced by the State Wine Domain which is
-located in Eltville. The question then becomes if there are other
-State Domains in the Rheingau than the one at Eltville.

It is a bit more complicated... Firstly "Verwaltung" means "Management" and Staatsweingüter is a plural...
From 1918 to 1998 this above organization (named so in 1939), located in Eltville, was responsible for the state wineries (Domäneweingüter) at Assmannshausen, Hattenheim-Erbach, Hochheim, Rüdesheim-Eibingen, Steinberg and the state bottlers at Kloster Eberbach, Hochheim, Rüdesheim and Wiesbaden. By 1978 the new cellars at Eltville replaced several of the other bottling operations. (Domänekellereien)

So by 1998 this was renamed Hessische Staatsweingüter GmbH Kloster Eberbach with a goal of becoming a commercially viable operation, now comprising the state wineries of Assmannshausen, Rüdesheim, Steinberg-Hattenheim, Rauenthal (Rauenthal und Wiesbadener Neroberg), Hochheim, Bensheim und Kloster Eberbach. The Kloster Eberbach by itself was made a foundation with a goal of maintaining the historical buildings and using them for public benefit as well as for the state wineries.

And yes, there are others in other states -
Fürstliches Castell'sches Domänenamt in Franconia
Gut Hermannsberg (used to be Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Niederhausen-Schloßböckelheim) in Nahe
Sächsisches Staatsweingut Schloss Wackerbarth in Saxonia
Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg in Franconia
Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Oppenheim in Rhineland-Palatinate
Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Trier in Mosel
Staatsweingut Bad Kreuznach in Nahe
Staatsweingut Freiburg in Baden
Staatsweingut Meersburg in Bodensee
Staatsweingut Mosel in Bernkastel
Staatsweingut mit Johannitergut Neustadt-Mußbach a.d. Weinstraße in Rhineland-Palatinate Staatsweingut Weinsberg in Baden
Weinbaudomäne Schloss Johannisberg in Rheingau


The Staatsweingut Mosel in Bernkastel puzzles me, I've been in Bernkastel several times and never heard of it... :-) Go to do something about that!

Anders


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Old 20-02-2012, 02:15 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

Ouch....!

Oppenheim is Rhine-Hesse, of course

:-)
Anders
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Old 20-02-2012, 10:51 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

thanks Anders. "Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach" is the name I was more familiar wine.
While state-run winery doesn't sound appealing to those of us who have a bias towards small artisanal producers, I've had plenty of delicious wines from Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach, Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Trier, ans Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg
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Old 21-02-2012, 08:56 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Riesling Spatlese 1976 Staatsweinguter

On Feb 20, 4:51*pm, DaleW wrote:
thanks Anders. "Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach" is the name I was more familiar wine.
While state-run winery doesn't sound appealing to those of us who have a bias towards small artisanal producers, I've had plenty of delicious wines from Hessische Staatsweingüter Kloster Eberbach, Staatliche Weinbaudomäne Trier, ans Staatlicher Hofkeller Würzburg


All of my German wines are pre-1998, and German wine label
requirements get modified from time to time. For example I have some
1973er Ockfener Bockstein RieslingTrockenbeerenauslese Eiswein,
Vervaltung der Staatlichen Weinbaudomanen Trier, 3 561 107 6 75. The
75 at the end of the number indicates that this wine took quite a
while to be ready to be bottled in 1975. Today the state domain
wording remains the same. However TBA would be forbidden and only
eiswein could be on the label. An eiswein can now be of only BA or TBA
level, but you can not specify which for a specific wine. Ockfener
Bockstein is owned by several.

However, especially in the Rheingau, some large famous vineyards are
entirely owned by the state domain. In this case having a specific
state domain listed on the label adds nothing useful If you want to
buy wine from the named vineyard. For large vineyards, state or
private, there often is considerable difference in quality for wines
produced from grapes in different parts of the vineyard. I would only
buy auslese or above from some of these large vineyards.

For example, Schloss Johannisberg, has two sets of labels and several
capsule color codes to identify the quality of their wines. The lower
quality label shows the Coat of Arms. The higher quality label shows
the Schloss. This system predates modern German wine laws and they can
do it because they do not mention quality levels other than say a
specific such as auslese. The 1976 Rosalack Auslese has a rose colored
capsule and the lower quality coat-of-arms label. It s a very good
auslese, but far from their best wine in 1976. An importer obtained 3
bottles of a much higher quality wine for me directly from Germany.
This 1976 BA has the Schloss label and a gold capsule with light blue-
gray rings at the top and bottom of the capsule.


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