Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-11-2011, 09:34 PM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

Saturday I attended a benefit for the social action programs at a local church. "An Evening in Hungary", a combination dinner/auction/concert, with my friend Alex as chief chef, and Betsy, her sister, and brother-in-law among musicians.

During the milling around/cocktail/silent auction part, they were pouring the
NV Delacroix Brut. Light, crisp, innocuous, really fairly decent for a $7-8 sparkler. B- At my table there was also a bottle of the NV Bernard Bremont Rose Champagne. As always I really enjoy this- full, powerful, long, but with a sense of elegance. B+/A-

Dinner was a really fantastic Maygar mushroom soup, followed by chicken (cornish hen) paprikash, bread dumplings (tasted like good T'giving stuffing), and red cabbage.

2007 Christian Moreau "les Clos" Chablis Grand Cru
This, the Bremont, and the du Tertre were duplicates to some of the wines included in a lot I had donated, I made sure a few likely bidders got some tastes. Good showing- full, rich, long. Really classic stuff, full as a Meursault but with Chablis crispness and oyster shell notes. A-/B+

2008 Egri Bikaver "Bull's Blood"
This was the house pour, again, decent for a $8 wine, a touch rustic and rough. B-/C+

1979 Ch. du Tertre (Margaux)
I had double-decanted this before traveling over. Cork was soft, but came out clean with ah-s0. I thought it funky and maybe pruney, but by time I was putting back in bottle it seemed more "normal." By serving time it was showing well- fully resolved tannins, still bright acids, good fruit, cigarbox, a bit of brett but well within my tolerance - more animal than manure. Fully mature, good. B+

After meal, one last go at the silent auction then everyone moved to sanctuary for concert. Cal did a great job of describing two strains of Hungarian music (the Viennese influence during A-H empire and folk music) and how they sometimes combined. He,Betsy,* and a pianist did the* "rondo all'Ongarese" movement of a Haydn trio, then he and Bets did a movement from a Kodaly duo. "Tree of Life" (hungarian folk group) did a series of songs, then Cal and Kath some quick Bartok duos, and the finish was the "Rono all Zingarese" movement of Brahms piano quartet. Great stuff.

People returned to dining room for dessert (2 strudels), but I joined the musicians for their late meal.

2009 Chidaine "Les Argiles" Vouvray
Crisp, zippy, apple/quince tart with a squirt of lemon juice, fun stuff. B

1993 Ch. Pajzos Tokaji Esszencia*(500 ml)
Cal loves Esszencia, and I promised I'd bring this for the musicians. Everyone was appreciative, but I was a little disappointed. Intensely sweet of course, with fig, raisin, orange peel, and caramel among notes, but while intense I didn't think this especially complex. B
..
Sunday I was cooking, after trip to fish store I decided to start with
conch salad. Starter wine was the 2010 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Kabinett. Bright, apple, citrus, probably more Spatlese-y but plenty of zip, long mineral finish. A-/B+

Main was tuna steaks in herb marinade, green beans, roasted purple yams (I think this is the Filipino kind) and carrots. Wine was the 2006 Meo-Camuzet Bourgogne. Ripe, maybe could use a touch more acid, but pretty black cherry fruit, a little coffee, good length, fun and easy. B+

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2011, 12:38 AM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 912
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

On Nov 21, 3:34*pm, DaleW wrote:
Saturday I attended a benefit for the social action programs at a local church. "An Evening in Hungary", a combination dinner/auction/concert, with my friend Alex as chief chef, and Betsy, her sister, and brother-in-law among musicians.


1993 Ch. Pajzos Tokaji Esszencia*(500 ml)
Cal loves Esszencia, and I promised I'd bring this for the musicians. Everyone was appreciative, but I was a little disappointed. Intensely sweet of course, with fig, *raisin, orange peel, and caramel among notes, but while intense I didn't think this especially complex. B
.


I found your tasting notes for this wine interesting. It is available
online, and perhaps in many large stores in 100 ml bottles also, so
this will allow a few people to taste a modern essencia without paying
a high price for a larger bottle. This wine is at the lower end of
modern essencia richness. The back label of the 100 ml bottle
indicates that the residual sugar is only 56.5 g/100 ml. More telling,
the alcohol content is listed as 7% by volume. The highest end
essencias usually are of much higher residual sugar content and the
wine will ferment to only 2 or 3 % alcohol by volume, sometimes less.
Pajzos made a lot of both essencia and aszu essencia in 1993, and both
are fairly easy to find. One must read the fine print very carefully
since sometimes search engines and even some wine store websites will
point you to the aszu essencia when you are looking for the essencia.
Also it is likely that a few wine stores may make a pricing mistake
and price the aszu essencia for the essencia price or vv.

It is going to take decades for the best modern essencias to show what
they can do with long age. I have my doubts about some that are made
in too modern a style.
Many of the best true essencias made in recent years come from the
1999 and 2000 vintages. In general the 2000s will now drink better
than the 1999s which may be better in the long term but may be a
little harsh this early. The Royal Tokay 1999 can still be bought in
the US. The 1999 Szepsy is likely to be one of the most age worthy
essencias made in recent times, but it likely needs the most age you
can give it to be at the best. The only place I could find it online
was in France and in a store in Poland that did not ship. The year
2000 was extremely hot and some of the grapes became extremely ripe.
Conditions might be compared with those for 1959 Sauternes or 1976
German TBA. The 2000s essencias in general are likely to drink better
early on, but still may age well.

When it comes to really old essencia, such as from the 1800s, there
are likely some aszu essencias mislabeled as essencia. However for
these old wines exported, it has been well documented that some export
firms in Hungary and Poland sometimes added brandy to stabilize the
wine, as essencia is extremely difficult to filter even using modern
methods. If all of the yeast was not removed, the essencia could start
to re-ferment a bit which could cause leakage or perhaps cause bottle
breakage. Thus an alcohol content of over about 10% by volume for such
an old essencia could mean that it either is a mislabeled aszu
essencia or that it is a true essencia slightly fortified with brandy.
Most modern essencia is filtered to stabilize it, especially if the
wine is to be exported. This is likely much better than heat
treatment. I wonder if radiation treatment would be better than heat
treatment or filtering. Also some have suggest one-way valves on the
corks to allow pressure release in case the wine starts to re-
ferment.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2011, 03:22 AM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

thanks for information. This actually lists alcohol as 4.5%, not 7. 565 g/l is plenty sweet for me,
Wine hasn't budged in 2 days.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2011, 05:39 AM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 912
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

On Nov 21, 9:22*pm, DaleW wrote:
thanks for information. This actually lists alcohol as 4.5%, not 7. 565 g/l is plenty sweet for me,
Wine hasn't budged in 2 days.


I looked at the back label again and it said 7% alcohol. It is a clear
plastic sticker label that might have been applied in the US. Perhaps
it is a different batch or perhaps someone made a mistake. One of the
richest essencias from 2000 is supposed to have only 2% alcohol, but a
bottle of it that came via the UK has 0 % alcohol listed. Who knows.
Since you don't seem to have a sweet tooth, you might like the aszu
essencia with less residual sugar and well over 10% alcohol better.
Most of the Royal Tokay essencias have been running about 2% alcohol.
Also the Hungarian word for essencia is translated into English in at
least 3 different ways with various combinations of s and z. Your wine
may remain about the same for many days, weeks, or even months as
reported by a few who have tasted old top essencias. But not knowing
how this new style of essencia is made, I would not count on this.

Many years ago an importer of fine German wines told me that one
company put the wrong labels on a few cases of an auslese they sent
him. To correct the situation, they sent him a batch of correct labels
to apply. Unfortunately some of the wine had been sold by retail
stores. The mistake was not a bad one, since the actual wine in the
bottle was an auslese of the same year from at least as good a
vineyard.



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2011, 01:17 PM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 16
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines


"DaleW" skrev i melding
news:[email protected].
thanks for information. This actually lists alcohol as 4.5%, not 7. 565
g/l is plenty sweet for me,
Wine hasn't budged in 2 days.


There's something wrong here. A Tokaji aszu essencia will have more than
180g/l of RS, an essencia about 400-600g/l...
(the record is over 900...!)

Even an ordinary German Spätlese may have more than 65g/l, an Auslese often
over 100.

Anders




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-11-2011, 03:56 PM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 912
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

On Nov 22, 7:17*am, "Anders Tørneskog"
wrote:
"DaleW" skrev i meldingnews:[email protected].

thanks for information. This actually lists alcohol as 4.5%, not 7. 565
g/l is plenty sweet for me,
Wine hasn't budged in 2 days.


There's something wrong here. *A Tokaji aszu essencia will have more than
180g/l of RS, an essencia about 400-600g/l...
(the record is over 900...!)

Even an ordinary German Spätlese may have more than 65g/l, an *Auslese often
over 100.

Anders


The small 100 ml bottle I have lists residual sugar as 56.5 g/100ml.
In the more usual units this is 565 g/l as Dale mentioned, if I read
his figures correctly. This falls at the lower end of about 400 - 600
g/l and sometimes over 900 g/l for essencia that you mention. I have a
bottle of a 2000 essencia that has about 800 g/l of residual sugar.
and I have read that even sweeter essencia was made in 2000, although
I have not seen tasting notes for such or any sales offers for it. At
one time the Hungarian laws allowed somewhat less sugar for essencia.
The minimum sugar content for essencia grade is used to be certain the
wine is rich enough much as is done in Germany and Austria for a TBA,
for example. If one defined essencia based on rich juice at the bottom
of a vat, perhaps some would cheat by hiring a circus fat lady or
elephant to sit on the top of the vat to produce more juice at the
bottom :-).

Under 1997 law, an essencia must have at least 450 g/l of residual
sugar and also 50 g/l of dry extract. Earlier a minimum of 250 g/l of
residual sugar was required. I believe these numbers are correct, but
they come from a secondary source and not from my reading Hungarian
laws directly.

Also, until recently, most bottles were 500 ml, but many are now 375
ml. For example, the 1999 Royal Tokay essencia was sold in 500 ml
bottles and their 2000 sold in 375 ml bottles.
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-11-2011, 12:02 AM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 16
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

Sorry, misread the figures, 7%alc and 565g/l it is - not 7.5% and 65g/l...

:-) Anders


"cwdjrxyz" skrev i melding
...
On Nov 22, 7:17 am, "Anders Tørneskog"
wrote:
"DaleW" skrev i
meldingnews:[email protected].

thanks for information. This actually lists alcohol as 4.5%, not 7. 565
g/l is plenty sweet for me,
Wine hasn't budged in 2 days.


There's something wrong here. A Tokaji aszu essencia will have more than
180g/l of RS, an essencia about 400-600g/l...
(the record is over 900...!)

Even an ordinary German Spätlese may have more than 65g/l, an Auslese
often
over 100.

Anders


The small 100 ml bottle I have lists residual sugar as 56.5 g/100ml.
In the more usual units this is 565 g/l as Dale mentioned, if I read
his figures correctly. This falls at the lower end of about 400 - 600
g/l and sometimes over 900 g/l for essencia that you mention. I have a
bottle of a 2000 essencia that has about 800 g/l of residual sugar.
and I have read that even sweeter essencia was made in 2000, although
I have not seen tasting notes for such or any sales offers for it. At
one time the Hungarian laws allowed somewhat less sugar for essencia.
The minimum sugar content for essencia grade is used to be certain the
wine is rich enough much as is done in Germany and Austria for a TBA,
for example. If one defined essencia based on rich juice at the bottom
of a vat, perhaps some would cheat by hiring a circus fat lady or
elephant to sit on the top of the vat to produce more juice at the
bottom :-).

Under 1997 law, an essencia must have at least 450 g/l of residual
sugar and also 50 g/l of dry extract. Earlier a minimum of 250 g/l of
residual sugar was required. I believe these numbers are correct, but
they come from a secondary source and not from my reading Hungarian
laws directly.

Also, until recently, most bottles were 500 ml, but many are now 375
ml. For example, the 1999 Royal Tokay essencia was sold in 500 ml
bottles and their 2000 sold in 375 ml bottles.


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-11-2011, 03:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default TN: French, German, and Hungarian wines

for record, 500 ml bottle lists 4.5% abv
maybe different lot from 100 ml that CWDJRXYZ has?
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 17-01-2012, 12:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdjrxyz View Post
On Nov 21, 3:34*pm, DaleW wrote:[color=blue][i]
...
Many of the best true essencias made in recent years come from the
1999 and 2000 vintages. In general the 2000s will now drink better
than the 1999s which may be better in the long term but may be a
little harsh this early. The Royal Tokay 1999 can still be bought in
the US. The 1999 Szepsy is likely to be one of the most age worthy
essencias made in recent times, but it likely needs the most age you
can give it to be at the best. The only place I could find it online
was in France and in a store in Poland that did not ship.
...
@ cwdjrxyz:
I have two of Szepsy´s 1999 Essencia in my wineshop, but I do not have any technical data about it (residual sugar content etc.). Not even Mr Szepsy himself has records from the most of his 90´s wines anymore. I have the most of his 1989 - 2005 vintages, but no technical data from his early wines. Would be great if someone has info about that.

... you also wrote you have a 800 g/l Essencia. Is it the 2000 Essencia from Uri Borok?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TN: Older French and one german wines cwdjrxyz Wine 2 15-10-2012 03:17 PM
TN: week of (French, German, Austrian, and American) wines DaleW Wine 4 15-07-2012 07:18 PM
TN: SOBER does German, French, English, and Brazilian wines DaleW Wine 1 30-11-2011 03:33 PM
TN: Many wines- French, German, Austrian DaleW Wine 5 31-10-2007 02:21 PM
German Wines and German Food Cggeorgecox Wine 13 08-05-2004 06:53 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2022 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017