Can'r say that I've had enough Marcassin to make a judgement on wines, but the newsletter definitely cemented my impression of the owners:

http://www.drvino.com/2011/08/04/mar...parker-turley/

DaleW wrote:
> Can'r say that I've had enough Marcassin to make a judgement on wines, but the newsletter definitely cemented my impression of the owners:
>
> http://www.drvino.com/2011/08/04/mar...parker-turley/

Yes, pretty incredible example of hubris and bad judgment to paint an
entire region with that broad brush. Lest one think that they were
somehow misinterpreted or taken out of context, we have RMP's comment on
it, courtesy of Matt Latuchie:

"I have known both John and Helen for over 20 years....intellectually,
both are brilliant, and as well informed about viticulture in all its
ramifications as anyone I have met with the possible exceptions of David
Abreu,the Smiths at Saxum, and Manfred Krankl. They are also very
reclusive, opinionated,and suffer no fools, but I have never seen them
throw out outrageous ideas or shoot from the hip...their statements come
from carefully considered and deep knowledge and research...they don't
need to ridicule Burgundy's viticulture or the DRC to sell one bottle of
their wine...they believe certain aspects of Burgundy's pruning,
hedging, and trellising systems could be improved(this is a PHD
subject), but their theories all make sense and should not be dismissed
just because the Burgundians have refused to change anything for several
hundred years...and as for the DRC's wines...I will say what I have
always said, and believe unequivocally....when they get it right their
wines are the greatest expressions of pinot noir in the world...but here
is the hitch all their sycophants and apologists refuse to
acknowledge...they produce an inordinate amount of fair to good wine
rather than inspirational wine....and that seems to me a subject that
can be addressed in a fair and responsible manner.....the open-minded
folks out there should be reflecting upon the possibility that
Turley/Wetlaufer may be correct.....and what is the significance of
that? those that can take the opportunity should compare the Marcassin
vineyard with any grand cru vineyard in Burgundy(say several weeks
before harvest).....and decide for themselves which vineyard looks the
healthiest, is rot and disease free,has the smallest berries and lowest
yields per vine, has the most evenly ripened fruit,and the most pristine
looking foliage....such factors are related to mother nature and
terroir, but even more to the methods in which a vineyard is
managed....you don't need to be an expert to see the remarkable
differences...."

What can one say, but WOW? There is also some spot-on commentary on this
topic from Mr. Parker's long time nemesis Robert Callahan to be found he

http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/5465/?page=2

Mark Lipton

On Aug 7, 9:41*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > Can'r say that I've had enough Marcassin to make a judgement on wines, but the newsletter definitely cemented my impression of the owners:
>
> >http://www.drvino.com/2011/08/04/mar...parker-turley/
>
> Yes, pretty incredible example of hubris and bad judgment to paint an
> entire region with that broad brush. *Lest one think that they were
> somehow misinterpreted or taken out of context, we have RMP's comment on
> it, courtesy of Matt Latuchie:
>
> "I have known both John and Helen for over 20 years....intellectually,
> both are brilliant, and as well informed about viticulture in all its
> ramifications as anyone I have met with the possible exceptions of David
> Abreu,the Smiths at Saxum, and Manfred Krankl. They are also very
> reclusive, opinionated,and suffer no fools, but I have never seen them
> throw out outrageous ideas or shoot from the hip...their statements come
> from carefully considered and deep knowledge and research...they don't
> need to ridicule Burgundy's viticulture or the DRC to sell one bottle of
> their wine...they believe certain aspects of Burgundy's pruning,
> hedging, and trellising systems could be improved(this is a PHD
> subject), but their theories all make sense and should not be dismissed
> just because the Burgundians have refused to change anything for several
> hundred years...and as for the DRC's wines...I will say what I have
> always said, and believe unequivocally....when they get it right their
> wines are the greatest expressions of pinot noir in the world...but here
> is the hitch all their sycophants and apologists refuse to
> acknowledge...they produce an inordinate amount of fair to good wine
> rather than inspirational wine....and that seems to me a subject that
> can be addressed in a fair and responsible manner.....the open-minded
> folks out there should be reflecting upon the possibility that
> Turley/Wetlaufer may be correct.....and what is the significance of
> that? those that can take the opportunity should compare the Marcassin
> vineyard with any grand cru vineyard in Burgundy(say several weeks
> before harvest).....and decide for themselves which vineyard looks the
> healthiest, is rot and disease free,has the smallest berries and lowest
> yields per vine, has the most evenly ripened fruit,and the most pristine
> looking foliage....such factors are related to mother nature and
> terroir, but even more to the methods in which a vineyard is
> managed....you don't need to be an expert to see the remarkable
> differences...."
>
> What can one say, but WOW? There is also some spot-on commentary on this
> topic from Mr. Parker's long time nemesis Robert Callahan to be found he
>
> http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/5465/?page=2
>
> Mark Lipton

Not saying that I disagree with the Marcassin folks about DRC. I have
had some absolutely average wines B Dale scale from there in several
recent vintages and at the prices they demand there should be little
average wine from there.

On Aug 10, 10:55*am, lleichtman > wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:41*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > DaleW wrote:
> > > Can'r say that I've had enough Marcassin to make a judgement on wines, but the newsletter definitely cemented my impression of the owners:
>
> > >http://www.drvino.com/2011/08/04/mar...parker-turley/
>
> > Yes, pretty incredible example of hubris and bad judgment to paint an
> > entire region with that broad brush. *Lest one think that they were
> > somehow misinterpreted or taken out of context, we have RMP's comment on
> > it, courtesy of Matt Latuchie:
>
> > "I have known both John and Helen for over 20 years....intellectually,
> > both are brilliant, and as well informed about viticulture in all its
> > ramifications as anyone I have met with the possible exceptions of David
> > Abreu,the Smiths at Saxum, and Manfred Krankl. They are also very
> > reclusive, opinionated,and suffer no fools, but I have never seen them
> > throw out outrageous ideas or shoot from the hip...their statements come
> > from carefully considered and deep knowledge and research...they don't
> > need to ridicule Burgundy's viticulture or the DRC to sell one bottle of
> > their wine...they believe certain aspects of Burgundy's pruning,
> > hedging, and trellising systems could be improved(this is a PHD
> > subject), but their theories all make sense and should not be dismissed
> > just because the Burgundians have refused to change anything for several
> > hundred years...and as for the DRC's wines...I will say what I have
> > always said, and believe unequivocally....when they get it right their
> > wines are the greatest expressions of pinot noir in the world...but here
> > is the hitch all their sycophants and apologists refuse to
> > acknowledge...they produce an inordinate amount of fair to good wine
> > rather than inspirational wine....and that seems to me a subject that
> > can be addressed in a fair and responsible manner.....the open-minded
> > folks out there should be reflecting upon the possibility that
> > Turley/Wetlaufer may be correct.....and what is the significance of
> > that? those that can take the opportunity should compare the Marcassin
> > vineyard with any grand cru vineyard in Burgundy(say several weeks
> > before harvest).....and decide for themselves which vineyard looks the
> > healthiest, is rot and disease free,has the smallest berries and lowest
> > yields per vine, has the most evenly ripened fruit,and the most pristine
> > looking foliage....such factors are related to mother nature and
> > terroir, but even more to the methods in which a vineyard is
> > managed....you don't need to be an expert to see the remarkable
> > differences...."
>
> > What can one say, but WOW? There is also some spot-on commentary on this
> > topic from Mr. Parker's long time nemesis Robert Callahan to be found he
>
> >http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/5465/?page=2
>
> > Mark Lipton
>
> Not saying that I disagree with the Marcassin folks about DRC. I have
> had some absolutely average wines B Dale scale from there in several
> recent vintages and at the prices they demand there should be little
> average wine from there.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Difficult topic. I understand the issue with DRC, I recently had a
bottle of 1995 La Tache (tart, dark, tight) and a 2000 Richebourg
( lovely, fragrant, tasty) along with a 2005 Marcassin Blue Slide
Pinot (is this Pinot?). I'm not a huge fan of Marcassin wines
especially the Pinot Noir as it bears little resemblance to Burgundy
and in many cases little resemblence to California Pinot Noir. The
Marcassin Pinots tend to be huge, ripe, monsterous wines with very
little affinity for food.

lleichtman > wrote in
:
>
> Not saying that I disagree with the Marcassin folks about DRC. I have
> had some absolutely average wines B Dale scale from there in several
> recent vintages and at the prices they demand there should be little
> average wine from there.

I have never heard of Marcassin before but I thought their bulletin is
distasteful and arrogant at the same time.

Regarding DRC, I have had two wines from them and both were excellent, but
lately I have been finding more pleasure in drinking wines from people I
know than pursuing the excellence of the big and expensive bottles.

At the end of the day, DRC prices are not but the result of a demand
aspiring only to the best, which happens also in many other wine regions.
If a big enough number of purchasers are willing to pay a big sum for what
essentially is bottled fruit juice, fine with me, but they are perhaps
missing the point of what fine wine drinking is.