Just got back from a three-day bacchanal in Dallas. The idea was to
hit the best restaurants without the hassle of having to drive 90
minutes home after dinner.

First night was Fearing's at the Ritz-Carlton. Dean Fearing was the
power behind the ascendency of the Mansion at Turtle Creek. He was
lured away by the Ritz about six years ago. Dinner was disappointing.
Despite a beautiful facility and a very inviting cocktail bar at the
entry, the ambience of the dining area was much more informal than one
would expect at a Ritz-Carlton premier restaurant. Wait staff was
uniformed in wide stripe orange/white short-sleeved shirts and looked
more like what you expect in Applebee's.

The food was way over-smoked and the melange of competing flavors
piled on was not pleasing. Wine was a Turley syrah which I had to try
since I'd never tasted other than Turley zins. Big, dark,
characteristic in-your-face no apologies fruit bomb.

Night two was Stephan Pyles. A stand-alone restaurant very much in the
California classic chrome, tile and modern artwork mold. Again the
intense smoke flavors infused in the food were a disappointment. And,
again the apparent need to deluge the plate with a half-dozen or more
competing elements trying to make the dish exotic. Noisy as well.

And, again the wine was the saving grace. My choice from the wine list
was not available and the recommended alternative was from Wrath
Vineyards. I'd never encountered Wrath before but this syrah was
simply outstanding. A web search later revealed Wrath as a limite
production winery on the California coast. If their other varietals
are as good, they've got a great product for the $$. Will have to see
if they are accessible or it is a wait list and allocation program.

Night three was Charlie Palmer at the Joule. (Eponymous eateries seem
to prevail in Big D.) This was the hands-down winner of the trip.
Simply outstanding on all aspects: decor, welcome, service,
knowledgeable staff, menu, presentation, even the art work on the
walls.

Wine was an experience. My choice was a pinot noir and they had a '99
Robert Sinskey. The story was that it was part of a planned tasting
dinner of Sinskey wines and was a library offering. Great wine. Very
dark, full-flavors, what I call a Burgundian style.

The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
and create your own short list for refining your choice.

A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
But it may be a coming trend.

Great report, Ed. Your writing ability came through loud and clear.
Too bad about your first two restaurants, but live and learn. It sounds
like you've gained back a lot of your sense of smell. Regarding Robert
Sinskey: I've liked their wines in years past, but it's been a while
since I've tried one. Their vineyards are in Carneros, the coolest
district in Sonoma/Napa (it straddles both counties) so I'm a bit
surprised that it was so dark, but then again such judgments are in
reference to one's own standards. If I ever get to the Big D, I'll keep
your recommendations in mind!

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Jul 13, 3:18*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Great report, Ed. *Your writing ability came through loud and clear.
> Too bad about your first two restaurants, but live and learn. *It sounds
> like you've gained back a lot of your sense of smell. *Regarding Robert
> Sinskey: I've liked their wines in years past, but it's been a while
> since I've tried one. *Their vineyards are in Carneros, the coolest
> district in Sonoma/Napa (it straddles both counties) so I'm a bit
> surprised that it was so dark, but then again such judgments are in
> reference to one's own standards. *If I ever get to the Big D, I'll keep
> your recommendations in mind!
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Went to Sinskey on our last trip to Sonoma. Really nice wines and yes,
very dark fruit.

On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:15:56 -0500, Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Just got back from a three-day bacchanal in Dallas. The idea was to hit
> the best restaurants without the hassle of having to drive 90 minutes
> home after dinner.
>
> First night was Fearing's at the Ritz-Carlton. Dean Fearing was the
> power behind the ascendency of the Mansion at Turtle Creek. He was lured
> away by the Ritz about six years ago. Dinner was disappointing. Despite
> a beautiful facility and a very inviting cocktail bar at the entry, the
> ambience of the dining area was much more informal than one would expect
> at a Ritz-Carlton premier restaurant. Wait staff was uniformed in wide
> stripe orange/white short-sleeved shirts and looked more like what you
> expect in Applebee's.
>
> The food was way over-smoked and the melange of competing flavors piled
> on was not pleasing. Wine was a Turley syrah which I had to try since
> I'd never tasted other than Turley zins. Big, dark, characteristic
> in-your-face no apologies fruit bomb.
>
> Night two was Stephan Pyles. A stand-alone restaurant very much in the
> California classic chrome, tile and modern artwork mold. Again the
> intense smoke flavors infused in the food were a disappointment. And,
> again the apparent need to deluge the plate with a half-dozen or more
> competing elements trying to make the dish exotic. Noisy as well.
>
> And, again the wine was the saving grace. My choice from the wine list
> was not available and the recommended alternative was from Wrath
> Vineyards. I'd never encountered Wrath before but this syrah was simply
> outstanding. A web search later revealed Wrath as a limite production
> winery on the California coast. If their other varietals are as good,
> they've got a great product for the $$. Will have to see if they are
> accessible or it is a wait list and allocation program.
>
> Night three was Charlie Palmer at the Joule. (Eponymous eateries seem to
> prevail in Big D.) This was the hands-down winner of the trip. Simply
> outstanding on all aspects: decor, welcome, service, knowledgeable
> staff, menu, presentation, even the art work on the walls.
>
> Wine was an experience. My choice was a pinot noir and they had a '99
> Robert Sinskey. The story was that it was part of a planned tasting
> dinner of Sinskey wines and was a library offering. Great wine. Very
> dark, full-flavors, what I call a Burgundian style.
>
> The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
> computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
> varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
> filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
> noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest and
> create your own short list for refining your choice.
>
> A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled on
> the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
> flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
> agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar with
> wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or regions
> and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his regular
> customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use. But it
> may be a coming trend.

I left Dallas in 1954. Things have changed greatly since then, I see. ;-)
Very interesting report. It is at least as valuable to learn of things to
avoid as it is to detail things to seek out.

Godzilla

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:02:38 +0000, Godzilla >
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:15:56 -0500, Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
>> Just got back from a three-day bacchanal in Dallas. The idea was to hit
>> the best restaurants without the hassle of having to drive 90 minutes
>> home after dinner.
>>
>> First night was Fearing's at the Ritz-Carlton. Dean Fearing was the
>> power behind the ascendency of the Mansion at Turtle Creek. He was lured
>> away by the Ritz about six years ago. Dinner was disappointing. Despite
>> a beautiful facility and a very inviting cocktail bar at the entry, the
>> ambience of the dining area was much more informal than one would expect
>> at a Ritz-Carlton premier restaurant. Wait staff was uniformed in wide
>> stripe orange/white short-sleeved shirts and looked more like what you
>> expect in Applebee's.
>>
>> The food was way over-smoked and the melange of competing flavors piled
>> on was not pleasing. Wine was a Turley syrah which I had to try since
>> I'd never tasted other than Turley zins. Big, dark, characteristic
>> in-your-face no apologies fruit bomb.
>>
>> Night two was Stephan Pyles. A stand-alone restaurant very much in the
>> California classic chrome, tile and modern artwork mold. Again the
>> intense smoke flavors infused in the food were a disappointment. And,
>> again the apparent need to deluge the plate with a half-dozen or more
>> competing elements trying to make the dish exotic. Noisy as well.
>>
>> And, again the wine was the saving grace. My choice from the wine list
>> was not available and the recommended alternative was from Wrath
>> Vineyards. I'd never encountered Wrath before but this syrah was simply
>> outstanding. A web search later revealed Wrath as a limite production
>> winery on the California coast. If their other varietals are as good,
>> they've got a great product for the $$. Will have to see if they are
>> accessible or it is a wait list and allocation program.
>>
>> Night three was Charlie Palmer at the Joule. (Eponymous eateries seem to
>> prevail in Big D.) This was the hands-down winner of the trip. Simply
>> outstanding on all aspects: decor, welcome, service, knowledgeable
>> staff, menu, presentation, even the art work on the walls.
>>
>> Wine was an experience. My choice was a pinot noir and they had a '99
>> Robert Sinskey. The story was that it was part of a planned tasting
>> dinner of Sinskey wines and was a library offering. Great wine. Very
>> dark, full-flavors, what I call a Burgundian style.
>>
>> The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
>> computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
>> varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
>> filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
>> noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest and
>> create your own short list for refining your choice.
>>
>> A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled on
>> the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
>> flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
>> agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar with
>> wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or regions
>> and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his regular
>> customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use. But it
>> may be a coming trend.
>
>I left Dallas in 1954. Things have changed greatly since then, I see. ;-)
>Very interesting report. It is at least as valuable to learn of things to
>avoid as it is to detail things to seek out.
>
>Godzilla

As with any review or opinion, "your mileage may vary".

I will definitely return to the Ritz-Carlton. It was an absolute
top-drawer hotel experience. Fearing's probably not. It was
interesting that in a conversation with the maitre'd at Charlie
Palmer's he mentioned that he had worked with Fearing when he was
still at the Mansion. When I said I was a bit disappointed, he simply
nodded and replied, "He's lost his way."

I'd give Stephan Pyles another shot and will definitely return to
Charlie Palmer's if given the chance.

Other recommendations for Dallas include Abacus and for very upscale
Mexican, Javier's Gourmet Mexico.

There are plenty of great steak houses in the Morton's, Ruth's Chris,
Del Frisco genre as well.

Good thing I don't win the lottery. There's no telling where I'd be
eating and what I'd be drinking.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:46:47 -0500, Ed Rasimus wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:02:38 +0000, Godzilla >
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:15:56 -0500, Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>>> Just got back from a three-day bacchanal in Dallas. The idea was to
>>> hit the best restaurants without the hassle of having to drive 90
>>> minutes home after dinner.
>>>
>>> First night was Fearing's at the Ritz-Carlton. Dean Fearing was the
>>> power behind the ascendency of the Mansion at Turtle Creek. He was
>>> lured away by the Ritz about six years ago. Dinner was disappointing.
>>> Despite a beautiful facility and a very inviting cocktail bar at the
>>> entry, the ambience of the dining area was much more informal than one
>>> would expect at a Ritz-Carlton premier restaurant. Wait staff was
>>> uniformed in wide stripe orange/white short-sleeved shirts and looked
>>> more like what you expect in Applebee's.
>>>
>>> The food was way over-smoked and the melange of competing flavors
>>> piled on was not pleasing. Wine was a Turley syrah which I had to try
>>> since I'd never tasted other than Turley zins. Big, dark,
>>> characteristic in-your-face no apologies fruit bomb.
>>>
>>> Night two was Stephan Pyles. A stand-alone restaurant very much in the
>>> California classic chrome, tile and modern artwork mold. Again the
>>> intense smoke flavors infused in the food were a disappointment. And,
>>> again the apparent need to deluge the plate with a half-dozen or more
>>> competing elements trying to make the dish exotic. Noisy as well.
>>>
>>> And, again the wine was the saving grace. My choice from the wine list
>>> was not available and the recommended alternative was from Wrath
>>> Vineyards. I'd never encountered Wrath before but this syrah was
>>> simply outstanding. A web search later revealed Wrath as a limite
>>> production winery on the California coast. If their other varietals
>>> are as good, they've got a great product for the $$. Will have to see
>>> if they are accessible or it is a wait list and allocation program.
>>>
>>> Night three was Charlie Palmer at the Joule. (Eponymous eateries seem
>>> to prevail in Big D.) This was the hands-down winner of the trip.
>>> Simply outstanding on all aspects: decor, welcome, service,
>>> knowledgeable staff, menu, presentation, even the art work on the
>>> walls.
>>>
>>> Wine was an experience. My choice was a pinot noir and they had a '99
>>> Robert Sinskey. The story was that it was part of a planned tasting
>>> dinner of Sinskey wines and was a library offering. Great wine. Very
>>> dark, full-flavors, what I call a Burgundian style.
>>>
>>> The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
>>> computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
>>> varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
>>> filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
>>> noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
>>> and create your own short list for refining your choice.
>>>
>>> A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
>>> on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
>>> flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
>>> agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
>>> with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
>>> regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
>>> regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
>>> But it may be a coming trend.
>>
>>I left Dallas in 1954. Things have changed greatly since then, I see.
>>;-) Very interesting report. It is at least as valuable to learn of
>>things to avoid as it is to detail things to seek out.
>>
>>Godzilla
>
> As with any review or opinion, "your mileage may vary".
>
> I will definitely return to the Ritz-Carlton. It was an absolute
> top-drawer hotel experience. Fearing's probably not. It was interesting
> that in a conversation with the maitre'd at Charlie Palmer's he
> mentioned that he had worked with Fearing when he was still at the
> Mansion. When I said I was a bit disappointed, he simply nodded and
> replied, "He's lost his way."
>
> I'd give Stephan Pyles another shot and will definitely return to
> Charlie Palmer's if given the chance.
>
> Other recommendations for Dallas include Abacus and for very upscale
> Mexican, Javier's Gourmet Mexico.
>
> There are plenty of great steak houses in the Morton's, Ruth's Chris,
> Del Frisco genre as well.
>
> Good thing I don't win the lottery. There's no telling where I'd be
> eating and what I'd be drinking.

Back in my Dallas days, my big splurge was to go to Neimann-Marcus for
lunch - and it was very good fare then!

Godzilla

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:12:24 +0000, Godzilla >
wrote:

>Back in my Dallas days, my big splurge was to go to Neimann-Marcus for
>lunch - and it was very good fare then!
>
>Godzilla

No, I will not ask the cookie recipe question. Won't do it.

Ed Rasimus > wrote in
:
>
> The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
> computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
> varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
> filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
> noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
> and create your own short list for refining your choice.
>
> A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
> on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
> flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
> agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
> with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
> regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
> regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
> But it may be a coming trend.


I have come across several wine lists in tablets and, IMHO, the experience
is more about the media than about the wine. Only in one case, for a
restaurant with a very small (but carefully selected) wine list, the media
added to the experience.



I went to Monvinic, a great wine place in Barcelona that Mike has mentioned
in the past, and they fancy one of those sytems that was developed before
the Ipad started the tablet-revolutions... Techies love it. I went with
friends from the IT industry and they could not separate from the tablet.


I think most of those tablets and Android systems are used because it is a
fashion and don't take into account how a customer behaves in front of a
wine list. I will speak for me: I browse every single page of a wine list
looking for that producer, wine, vineyard or vintage that catches my eye. I
do not want to start with a search. I want to find that little gem that
suits me for that night. And that cannot be accomplished with most tablet
apps because they lay on a database. Databases are good to organise
information, but not to display it. And a wine list is not about
organising, it is about displaying.

s.

On Jul 15, 3:11*pm, santiago > wrote:
> Ed Rasimus > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
> > computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
> > varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
> > filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
> > noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
> > and create your own short list for refining your choice.
>
> > A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
> > on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
> > flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
> > agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
> > with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
> > regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
> > regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
> > But it may be a coming trend.
>
> I have come across several wine lists in tablets and, IMHO, the experience
> is more about the media than about the wine. Only in one case, for a
> restaurant with a very small (but carefully selected) wine list, the media
> added to the experience.
>
> I went to Monvinic, a great wine place in Barcelona that Mike has mentioned
> in the past, and they fancy one of those sytems that was developed before
> the Ipad started the tablet-revolutions... Techies love it. I went with
> friends from the IT industry and they could not separate from the tablet.
>
> I think most of those tablets and Android systems are used because it is a
> fashion and don't take into account how a customer behaves in front of a
> wine list. I will speak for me: I browse every single page of a wine list
> looking for that producer, wine, vineyard or vintage that catches my eye. I
> do not want to start with a search. I want to find that little gem that
> suits me for that night. And that cannot be accomplished with most tablet
> apps because they lay on a database. Databases are good to organise
> information, but not to display it. And a wine list is not about
> organising, it is about displaying.
>
> s.

I agree Santiago. It is always good to find the one little spot on a
big wine list that has a great value.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:11:33 +0000 (UTC), santiago >
wrote:

>Ed Rasimus > wrote in
:
>>
>> The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
>> computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
>> varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
>> filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
>> noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
>> and create your own short list for refining your choice.
>>
>> A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
>> on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
>> flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
>> agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
>> with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
>> regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
>> regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
>> But it may be a coming trend.
>
>
>I have come across several wine lists in tablets and, IMHO, the experience
>is more about the media than about the wine. Only in one case, for a
>restaurant with a very small (but carefully selected) wine list, the media
>added to the experience.
>
>
>
>I went to Monvinic, a great wine place in Barcelona that Mike has mentioned
>in the past, and they fancy one of those sytems that was developed before
>the Ipad started the tablet-revolutions... Techies love it. I went with
>friends from the IT industry and they could not separate from the tablet.
>
>
>I think most of those tablets and Android systems are used because it is a
>fashion and don't take into account how a customer behaves in front of a
>wine list. I will speak for me: I browse every single page of a wine list
>looking for that producer, wine, vineyard or vintage that catches my eye. I
>do not want to start with a search. I want to find that little gem that
>suits me for that night. And that cannot be accomplished with most tablet
>apps because they lay on a database. Databases are good to organise
>information, but not to display it. And a wine list is not about
>organising, it is about displaying.
>
>s.

You've said it more clearly than I did. The search through the pages
is much more the experience than the clicking of touchscreen buttons.
Even a "pairing" function with the restaurant's menu would be
unsatisfactory from that perspective.

I've always joked that when I've gone to a restaurant with a fine wine
list that the meal costs me three or four times what the final tab
was, since I then go home and scan the web to buy a case of something
I've discovered.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:41:31 -0500, Ed Rasimus wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:12:24 +0000, Godzilla >
> wrote:
>
>>Back in my Dallas days, my big splurge was to go to Neimann-Marcus for
>>lunch - and it was very good fare then!
>>
>>Godzilla
>
> No, I will not ask the cookie recipe question. Won't do it.

You mean that you don't have the $500 left after your Dallas trip? ;-)

Godzilla

On Jul 15, 5:11*pm, santiago > wrote:
> Ed Rasimus > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The "experience" however was the wine list. It was offered on a tablet
> > computer running Android. Choose your style (red/white/rose/bubbly),
> > varietal, country or region, winery, vintage, price range for sort
> > filters. Get the list of available wines (my initial sort on US pinot
> > noirs revealed 800 wines in stock!) You can check wines of interest
> > and create your own short list for refining your choice.
>
> > A great idea, but not quite mature in execution. The database stalled
> > on the first tablet I was given. Then I was frustrated by the lack of
> > flexibility to browse wider options. Talking with the sommelier he
> > agreed with me that it could be off-putting for someone unfamiliar
> > with wines. It restricted the ability to discover new varietals or
> > regions and was cumbersome. He freely admitted that most of his
> > regular customers prefer the familiar paper wine list for ease of use.
> > But it may be a coming trend.
>
> I have come across several wine lists in tablets and, IMHO, the experience
> is more about the media than about the wine. Only in one case, for a
> restaurant with a very small (but carefully selected) wine list, the media
> added to the experience.
>
> I went to Monvinic, a great wine place in Barcelona that Mike has mentioned
> in the past, and they fancy one of those sytems that was developed before
> the Ipad started the tablet-revolutions... Techies love it. I went with
> friends from the IT industry and they could not separate from the tablet.
>
> I think most of those tablets and Android systems are used because it is a
> fashion and don't take into account how a customer behaves in front of a
> wine list. I will speak for me: I browse every single page of a wine list
> looking for that producer, wine, vineyard or vintage that catches my eye. I
> do not want to start with a search. I want to find that little gem that
> suits me for that night. And that cannot be accomplished with most tablet
> apps because they lay on a database. Databases are good to organise
> information, but not to display it. And a wine list is not about
> organising, it is about displaying.
>
> s.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Couldn't agree more Santiago. I enjoy the sensory experience as well
as finding that gem.