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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
Many times I happened to read about ancient wines as very strong, often
as a kind of an escuxe for the fact they used to mix it with water and many other things, from honey to spices, snow and fruits. But I also know that proper vicification requires skills, techniques, knowledge and equipmente. Did the ancient greeks, romans and egiptians really made strong wines, or did they make wines with less than 10% alcol? They didn't use selected yeasts, they just let those on the skins do the work while praising to the gods ("spirits" comes from the general belief that it was some kind of spirits to transform must into wine). And the higienic conditions back then were horrible, just as the management of important variables like temperature, for example. I'm sure of one thing: the measurement of the alcol percentage in wine is too young to help in regards to ancient Athens, Rome or Thebes. Is there a way to discern if some of these ancient were really strong? Maybe also a simple textual account about someone who got drunk with a few sips? LOL -- Vilco And the Family Stone Every burp of a table companion is a sign of gratitude for the cook |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
You might like to take a look here
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/...hp?f=3&t=39034 I think your reasoning is sound. "Ancient" is a very broad term, and I feel pretty safe in saying the wine will have been of various strengths. But, yes, people often seem to think that the wine was strong. A contemporary wrote about a wine being strong enough to catch fire, and the amount needed to get drunk was also discussed. But we will never get alcohol statistics from what remains of historical records. -- www.winenous.co.uk |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message ... > You might like to take a look here > http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/...hp?f=3&t=39034 > > I think your reasoning is sound. > > "Ancient" is a very broad term, and I feel pretty safe in saying the wine > will have been of various strengths. But, yes, people often seem to think > that the wine was strong. A contemporary wrote about a wine being strong > enough to catch fire, and the amount needed to get drunk was also > discussed. But we will never get alcohol statistics from what remains of > historical records. > > www.winenous.co.uk > > The alcohol content of wine is dependant on the percent of fermentable sugar in the grape, nothing else. Any wine with more than about 13-13.5% alcohol has been fortified in some way. Current wines are higher in alcohol than wines 30 years ago, by 1-1.5%. I think that's secondary to global warning. Kent |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
"Kent" wrote ..........
> The alcohol content of wine is dependant on the percent of fermentable > sugar in the grape, nothing else. Hmmm - a couple rather simplistic generalisations??? Could not sugar "not from within the grape" but added prior to fermentation (chaptalisation) affect eventual alcohol levels? And if fermentation was halted (by dropping the temperature of the must) so that the final product indeed had significant levels of residual sugar and lower alcohol levels, would not the more correct statement be "The alcohol content of wine is dependant on the percent of fermented sugar"????????? > Any wine with more than about 13-13.5% alcohol has been fortified in some > way. Again, an erroneous statement - some grape varieties (Zinfandel to name one) will reach alcohol levels way in excess of 13.5% (16% is not unheard of) without being fortified??? > Current wines are higher in alcohol than wines 30 years ago, by 1-1.5%. I > think that's secondary to global warning. More probably riper grapes through differing viticultural techniques. -- st.helier |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 17, 8:56*am, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> On 17/05/2011 11:44, st.helier wrote: > > >> Any wine with more than about 13-13.5% alcohol has been fortified in > >> some way. > > > Again, an erroneous statement - some grape varieties (Zinfandel to name > > one) will reach alcohol levels way in excess of 13.5% (16% is not > > unheard of) without being fortified??? > > I have seen 16 in Bandol no problem > > >> Current wines are higher in alcohol than wines 30 years ago, by > >> 1-1.5%. I think that's secondary to global warning. > > > More probably riper grapes through differing viticultural techniques. > > Agreed, plus the old race to have the highest octane. *Anyhow in > Provence if you get a wine under 14 you are either cheating or making > crap wine. Even more so in Cali. I could show quite a few non-crap wines (imho) from Cali that are under 14. |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On 5/17/11 3:18 AM, Kent wrote:
> The alcohol content of wine is dependant on the percent of fermentable sugar > in the grape, nothing else. Any wine with more than about 13-13.5% alcohol > has been fortified in some way. As others have explained, 'tain't so simple, Kent. The amount of alcohol you get out depends also on the strain of yeast you use. While 14% ABV is pretty much the limit for your average s. cerevisiae, strains have been isolated that can ferment as high as 17% (and many of those are marketed to winemakers in CA who want to ferment high sugar musts to dryness). In regions like the South of France, wines were exceeding 14% even back in the mid-20th Century. Mark Lipton -- alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 16, 4:01*pm, ViLco > wrote:
> Many times I happened to read about ancient wines as very strong, often > as a kind of an escuxe for the fact they used to mix it with water and > many other things, from honey to spices, snow and fruits. > But I also know that proper vicification requires skills, techniques, > knowledge and equipmente. Did the ancient greeks, romans and egiptians > really made strong wines, or did they make wines with less than 10% > alcol? They didn't use selected yeasts, they just let those on the skins > do the work while praising to the gods ("spirits" comes from the general > belief that it was some kind of spirits to transform must into wine). > And the higienic conditions back then were horrible, just as the > management of important variables like temperature, for example. > I'm sure of one thing: the measurement of the alcol percentage in wine > is too young to help in regards to ancient Athens, Rome or Thebes. Is > there a way to discern if some of these ancient were really strong? > Maybe also a simple textual account about someone who got drunk with a > few sips? LOL Ancient wines are known from back to a few centuries BC. Perhaps the earliest were from China. Several years ago sealed bronze containers of Chinese wine from a few centuries BC were found. I believe this may have been described in Science or Nature journals a few years ago. I do not recall if any of the wine was analyzed for alcohol content, but, if not, it would be very easy to do so. Of course wine that had been stored in metal for so long likely would taste very foul and might be quite toxic depending on the metals used in the bronze and the acid content of the wine. If I remember correctly, the old Chinese wine might have been made from a variety of fruits, not just grapes. Rich Egyptians often left containers of wine in the tombs, but so far as I know, the seals of all of these were slightly imperfect, so that all that remains in the containers now is dust. If we turn to the period of a few hundred years on either side of the bc/ad transition, there is much information about wines in Rome, Greece, and a few other countries. So far as I know, these countries did not distill alcohol then. Distillation was introduced by Arabs several hundreds of years later, but likely before the time of a certain Arab prophet. Thus fortified wines likely were unknown. However many herbs and other natural products were known and widely used in medicine. Some of these materials added to wine could have produced a very intense effect, even death, if overdone. If we consider everyday wines, some likely reached the alcohol content of modern wines fermented using natural yeast, but many, if not most, likely did not. Some of the poorer examples, apparently were mixed with about anything that would make them more drinkable such as was the case for "bathtub gin" during US prohibition. Such wines would not last very long unless protected from air. Pine resin or other materials added might extend the life of the wine a bit, and floating oil on top of the wine would somewhat limit oxygen uptake from the air. But the rich Romans also had very expensive wines that were sometimes aged for many decades. Very sweet wines were liked. There has been speculation that botrytis was known, but so far as I know this is just speculation because the text on which such speculation is based could have various meanings. However there are many other methods for increasing sugar content. A crude method is to boil down some grape juice and add it to wine. Hopefully they did not use lead pots for this that many Romans used then. Some of the grapes could have been dried, as is still done for a few Italian wines. Twisting of stems has been used to nearly cut off sap flow and allow the grapes to dry on the vine, but I have not seen any reference to twisting for that era. As for protecting the wine from oxidation, sealed ceramic containers apparently worked fairly well. Some aged the wine under rather hot conditions which likely produced a Madeira-like effect. In some warm countries until very recent times, wine was aged in large sealed containers buried underground which would produce lower temperatures, but I do no recall reading about this for Roman or Greek wine. The rich old Romans likely would have liked Tokaji essencia, so consider how essencia is made. Tokaji Aszu and even Tokaji Aszu Essencia has fairly high residual sugar as well as high alcohol, being less rich to much richer than Yquem, for example. True Essencia, now being made and sold again, uses only highly overripe grapes, usually botrytis affected, which are piled up and only the small amount of very concentrated juice that collects at the bottom of a container without pressing is used. For top Essencia, even after several years of fermentation the alcohol content may be as low as 2%, for example. The essencia sometimes is fermented only in glass, and some ferment in both glass and wood. The extreme sugar content kills the yeast before the alcohol content can become very high. Because of the extreme sugar content, essencia is very stable and will keep a very long time if opened. For example, the Royal Tokaji Essencia 2000, according to the card packed with it, has 2.0% alcohol, 21.4 gr/l acidity and 620 gr/l of residual sugar. The very high acidity balances the extremely high sugar content. There was some 2000 Essencia that exceeded 900 gr/l of residual sugar and an example containing over 800 gr/l can actually be bought from at least on specialist wine dealer in Europe for a very high price - there were only a few dozen bottles of this 2000 Essencia. Such rich wine has the viscosity of motor oil or light honey. The point is that if the Ancients used overripe grapes they could have well noticed that they oozed juice that was extremely sweet and saved it apart for sale to the very rich. I have no idea if they did this, but it would take no modern high technology to do so. |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 17, 4:21*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On May 16, 4:01*pm, ViLco > wrote: > > > > > > > Many times I happened to read about ancient wines as very strong, often > > as a kind of an escuxe for the fact they used to mix it with water and > > many other things, from honey to spices, snow and fruits. > > But I also know that proper vicification requires skills, techniques, > > knowledge and equipmente. Did the ancient greeks, romans and egiptians > > really made strong wines, or did they make wines with less than 10% > > alcol? They didn't use selected yeasts, they just let those on the skins > > do the work while praising to the gods ("spirits" comes from the general > > belief that it was some kind of spirits to transform must into wine). > > And the higienic conditions back then were horrible, just as the > > management of important variables like temperature, for example. > > I'm sure of one thing: the measurement of the alcol percentage in wine > > is too young to help in regards to ancient Athens, Rome or Thebes. Is > > there a way to discern if some of these ancient were really strong? > > Maybe also a simple textual account about someone who got drunk with a > > few sips? LOL > > Ancient wines are known from back to a few centuries BC. Perhaps the > earliest were from China. Several years ago sealed bronze containers > of Chinese wine from a few centuries BC were found. I believe this may > have been described in Science or Nature journals a few years ago. I > do not recall if any of the wine was analyzed for alcohol content, > but, if not, it would be very easy to do so. Of course wine that had > been stored in metal for so long likely would taste very foul and > might be quite toxic depending on the metals used in the bronze and > the acid content of the wine. If I remember correctly, the old Chinese > wine might have been made from a variety of fruits, not just grapes. > Rich Egyptians often left containers of wine in the tombs, but so far > as I know, the seals of all of these were slightly imperfect, so that > all that remains in the containers now is dust. > > If we turn to the period of a few hundred years on either side of the > bc/ad transition, there is much information about wines in Rome, > Greece, and a few other countries. So far as I know, these countries > did not distill alcohol then. Distillation was introduced by Arabs > several hundreds of years later, but likely before the time of a > certain Arab prophet. Thus fortified wines likely were unknown. > However many herbs and other natural products were known and widely > used in medicine. Some of these materials added to wine could have > produced a very intense effect, *even death, if overdone. > > If we consider everyday wines, some likely reached the alcohol content > of modern wines fermented using natural yeast, but many, if not most, > likely did not. Some of the poorer examples, apparently were mixed > with about anything that would make them more drinkable such as was > the case for "bathtub gin" during US prohibition. Such wines would not > last very long unless protected from air. Pine resin or other > materials added might extend the life of the wine a bit, and floating > oil on top of the wine would somewhat limit oxygen uptake from the > air. > > But the rich Romans also had very expensive wines that were sometimes > aged for many decades. Very sweet wines were liked. There has been > speculation that botrytis was known, but so far as I know this is just > speculation because the text on which such speculation is based could > have various meanings. However there are many other methods for > increasing sugar content. A crude method is to boil down some grape > juice and add it to wine. Hopefully they did not use lead pots for > this that many Romans used then. Some of the grapes could have been > dried, as is still done for a few Italian wines. Twisting of stems has > been used to nearly cut off sap flow and allow the grapes to dry on > the vine, but I have not seen any reference to twisting for that era. > As for protecting the wine from oxidation, sealed ceramic containers > apparently worked fairly well. Some aged the wine under rather hot > conditions which likely produced a Madeira-like effect. In some warm > countries until very recent times, wine was aged in large sealed > containers buried underground which would produce lower temperatures, > but I do no recall reading about this for Roman or Greek wine. > > The rich old Romans likely would have liked Tokaji essencia, so > consider how essencia is made. Tokaji Aszu and even Tokaji Aszu > Essencia has fairly high residual sugar as well as high alcohol, being > less rich to much richer than Yquem, for example. True Essencia, now > being made and sold again, uses only highly overripe grapes, usually > botrytis affected, which are piled up and only the small amount of > very concentrated juice that collects at the bottom of a container > without pressing is used. For top Essencia, even after several years > of fermentation the alcohol content may be as low as 2%, for example. > The essencia sometimes is fermented only in glass, and some ferment in > both glass and wood. The extreme sugar content kills the yeast before > the alcohol content can become very high. Because of the extreme sugar > content, essencia is very stable and will keep a very long time if > opened. For example, the Royal Tokaji Essencia 2000, according to the > card packed with it, has 2.0% alcohol, 21.4 gr/l acidity and 620 gr/l > of residual sugar. The very high acidity balances the extremely high > sugar content. There was some 2000 Essencia that exceeded 900 gr/l of > residual sugar and an example containing over 800 gr/l can actually be > bought from at least on specialist wine dealer in Europe for a very > high price - there were only a few dozen bottles of this 2000 > Essencia. Such rich wine has the viscosity of motor oil or light > honey. The point is that if the Ancients used overripe grapes they > could have well noticed that they oozed juice that was extremely sweet > and saved it apart for sale to the very rich. I have no idea if they > did this, but it would take no modern high technology to do so.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Great read! Thanks for the information. |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 17, 3:21*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On May 16, 4:01*pm, ViLco > wrote: > > Many times I happened to read about ancient wines as very strong, often > > as a kind of an escuxe for the fact they used to mix it with water and > > many other things, from honey to spices, snow and fruits. > > But I also know that proper vicification requires skills, techniques, > > knowledge and equipmente. Did the ancient greeks, romans and egiptians > > really made strong wines, or did they make wines with less than 10% > > alcol? They didn't use selected yeasts, they just let those on the skins > > do the work while praising to the gods ("spirits" comes from the general > > belief that it was some kind of spirits to transform must into wine). > > And the higienic conditions back then were horrible, just as the > > management of important variables like temperature, for example. > > I'm sure of one thing: the measurement of the alcol percentage in wine > > is too young to help in regards to ancient Athens, Rome or Thebes. Is > > there a way to discern if some of these ancient were really strong? > > Maybe also a simple textual account about someone who got drunk with a > > few sips? LOL > > Ancient wines are known from back to a few centuries BC. Perhaps the > earliest were from China. Several years ago sealed bronze containers > of Chinese wine from a few centuries BC were found. I believe this may > have been described in Science or Nature journals a few years ago. I > do not recall if any of the wine was analyzed for alcohol content, > but, if not, it would be very easy to do so. Of course wine that had > been stored in metal for so long likely would taste very foul and > might be quite toxic depending on the metals used in the bronze and > the acid content of the wine. If I remember correctly, the old Chinese > wine might have been made from a variety of fruits, not just grapes. > Rich Egyptians often left containers of wine in the tombs, but so far > as I know, the seals of all of these were slightly imperfect, so that > all that remains in the containers now is dust. > > If we turn to the period of a few hundred years on either side of the > bc/ad transition, there is much information about wines in Rome, > Greece, and a few other countries. So far as I know, these countries > did not distill alcohol then. Distillation was introduced by Arabs > several hundreds of years later, but likely before the time of a > certain Arab prophet. Thus fortified wines likely were unknown. > However many herbs and other natural products were known and widely > used in medicine. Some of these materials added to wine could have > produced a very intense effect, *even death, if overdone. > > If we consider everyday wines, some likely reached the alcohol content > of modern wines fermented using natural yeast, but many, if not most, > likely did not. Some of the poorer examples, apparently were mixed > with about anything that would make them more drinkable such as was > the case for "bathtub gin" during US prohibition. Such wines would not > last very long unless protected from air. Pine resin or other > materials added might extend the life of the wine a bit, and floating > oil on top of the wine would somewhat limit oxygen uptake from the > air. > > But the rich Romans also had very expensive wines that were sometimes > aged for many decades. Very sweet wines were liked. There has been > speculation that botrytis was known, but so far as I know this is just > speculation because the text on which such speculation is based could > have various meanings. However there are many other methods for > increasing sugar content. A crude method is to boil down some grape > juice and add it to wine. Hopefully they did not use lead pots for > this that many Romans used then. Some of the grapes could have been > dried, as is still done for a few Italian wines. Twisting of stems has > been used to nearly cut off sap flow and allow the grapes to dry on > the vine, but I have not seen any reference to twisting for that era. > As for protecting the wine from oxidation, sealed ceramic containers > apparently worked fairly well. Some aged the wine under rather hot > conditions which likely produced a Madeira-like effect. In some warm > countries until very recent times, wine was aged in large sealed > containers buried underground which would produce lower temperatures, > but I do no recall reading about this for Roman or Greek wine. > > The rich old Romans likely would have liked Tokaji essencia, so > consider how essencia is made. Tokaji Aszu and even Tokaji Aszu > Essencia has fairly high residual sugar as well as high alcohol, being > less rich to much richer than Yquem, for example. True Essencia, now > being made and sold again, uses only highly overripe grapes, usually > botrytis affected, which are piled up and only the small amount of > very concentrated juice that collects at the bottom of a container > without pressing is used. For top Essencia, even after several years > of fermentation the alcohol content may be as low as 2%, for example. > The essencia sometimes is fermented only in glass, and some ferment in > both glass and wood. The extreme sugar content kills the yeast before > the alcohol content can become very high. Because of the extreme sugar > content, essencia is very stable and will keep a very long time if > opened. For example, the Royal Tokaji Essencia 2000, according to the > card packed with it, has 2.0% alcohol, 21.4 gr/l acidity and 620 gr/l > of residual sugar. The very high acidity balances the extremely high > sugar content. There was some 2000 Essencia that exceeded 900 gr/l of > residual sugar and an example containing over 800 gr/l can actually be > bought from at least on specialist wine dealer in Europe for a very > high price - there were only a few dozen bottles of this 2000 > Essencia. Such rich wine has the viscosity of motor oil or light > honey. The point is that if the Ancients used overripe grapes they > could have well noticed that they oozed juice that was extremely sweet > and saved it apart for sale to the very rich. I have no idea if they > did this, but it would take no modern high technology to do so. In the US in early days, apple cider was often set out to freeze in New England. This required very low temperatures for an extended period. The liquid was then decanted from the ice, and it was greatly increased in alcohol content. The same thing could be done with wine. Many of the ancient wine regions likely did not have the extended low temperatures to make this work. However the Roman army went to most of Europe, the UK etc. Some of the regions they went to likely had extended temperatures low enough to make the freezing alcohol concentration technique work. The Roman armies usually took wine with them or drank local wine. All it would take to discover the technique is to have a container freeze, drink the remaining liquid, and notice that it was much stronger than the unfrozen wine. I have not ever read that this happened, but very strong wine could have been made in this way by them with very little effort. |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
Il 17/05/2011 22:21, cwdjrxyz ha scritto:
> If we turn to the period of a few hundred years on either side of the > bc/ad transition, there is much information about wines in Rome, > Greece, and a few other countries. Very true. In these guys had an alcohol-meter it would be so easy > So far as I know, these countries > did not distill alcohol then. Distillation was introduced by Arabs > several hundreds of years later, but likely before the time of a > certain Arab prophet. I've read about the discovery of distillation in arab countries around VII century, the same century of Mohammed. Then it got to Europe many centuries after, like 15th or 16th century. Then, when we europesna started mastering distillation techniques, we never stopped, LOL > Thus fortified wines likely were unknown. Exactly. > If we consider everyday wines, some likely reached the alcohol content > of modern wines fermented using natural yeast, but many, if not most, > likely did not. "everyday" is the word here. It looks like the romans used to have 2 kinds of wine: the aged wines (in amphoras) and the fresh wines (straigth from the fermentation vat, maybe after some time has passed). > But the rich Romans also had very expensive wines that were sometimes > aged for many decades. This is totally new to me. How were these wines aged? Taling about containers, as you may think too. > Very sweet wines were liked. This makes sense, and a lot of it. > The rich old Romans likely would have liked Tokaji essencia, so > consider how essencia is made. I don't know when the production of tokaji essencia started, maybe some centuries later? Anyway, I love tokaji essencia -- Vilco And the Family Stone So che faccio il tuo gioco rispondendo a questo post ma mff |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
Il 19/05/2011 08:59, cwdjrxyz ha scritto:
> In the US in early days, apple cider was often set out to freeze in > New England. This required very low temperatures for an extended > period. The liquid was then decanted from the ice, and it was greatly > increased in alcohol content. The same thing could be done with wine. Neat! Iced water goes on top of alcohol so that you can take away the iced part thus reducing the water parecentage, thus increasing the alcohol percentage? That sounds easy and sound. -- Vilco And the Family Stone Shguazza, pesce fess' |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 19, 3:56*pm, ViLco > wrote:
> Il 19/05/2011 08:59, cwdjrxyz ha scritto: > > > In the US in early days, apple cider was often set out to freeze in > > New England. This required very low temperatures for an extended > > period. The liquid was then decanted from the ice, and it was greatly > > increased in alcohol content. The same thing could be done with wine. > > Neat! Iced water goes on top of alcohol so that you can take away the > iced part thus reducing the water parecentage, thus increasing the > alcohol percentage? That sounds easy and sound. It is very easy. See http://eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html for detailed directions. Note that temperatures mentioned are in F an not C degrees. |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On 5/19/2011 5:31 PM, cwdjrxyz wrote:
> On May 19, 3:56 pm, > wrote: >> Il 19/05/2011 08:59, cwdjrxyz ha scritto: >> >>> In the US in early days, apple cider was often set out to freeze in >>> New England. This required very low temperatures for an extended >>> period. The liquid was then decanted from the ice, and it was greatly >>> increased in alcohol content. The same thing could be done with wine. >> >> Neat! Iced water goes on top of alcohol so that you can take away the >> iced part thus reducing the water parecentage, thus increasing the >> alcohol percentage? That sounds easy and sound. > > It is very easy. See http://eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html for > detailed directions. Note that temperatures mentioned are in F an not > C degrees. > Somehow, I don't think that was a technique much used in Egypt! -- James Silverton, Potomac I'm *not* |
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Ancient wine was very high in alcol: reality or myth?
On May 19, 4:40*pm, James Silverton >
wrote: > On 5/19/2011 5:31 PM, cwdjrxyz wrote: > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:56 pm, > *wrote: > >> Il 19/05/2011 08:59, cwdjrxyz ha scritto: > > >>> In the US in early days, apple cider was often set out to freeze in > >>> New England. This required very low temperatures for an extended > >>> period. The liquid was then decanted from the ice, and it was greatly > >>> increased in alcohol content. The same thing could be done with wine. > > >> Neat! Iced water goes on top of alcohol so that you can take away the > >> iced part thus reducing the water parecentage, thus increasing the > >> alcohol percentage? That sounds easy and sound. > > > It is very easy. Seehttp://eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.htmlfor > > detailed directions. Note that temperatures mentioned are in F an not > > C degrees. > > Somehow, I don't think that was a technique much used in Egypt! So far as I know, the technique was not used anywhere in the ancient world. However since Roman soldiers went to many cold countries as well as warm countries and drank wine, it is quite likely that they had some wine freeze in northern Europe. If someone tasted the unfrozen portion and noted that it was much stronger, then that is all it would take to discover the technique. If the rich in Rome liked it and would pay enough, it likely could be arranged to freeze wine in northern Europe and send it back to Rome. If such happened, it seems highly likely that someone would have written about it. If the rich Romans could have parrot tongues imported to eat and have snow brought down mountains, then commerce in wine enriched by freezing should have been no problem. |
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