Last night Matt organized a good group around the theme of "the good stuff" - a fun night of lighthearted blind guessing. He even provided trophies for the 1st and 2nd place guessers (Paul won first on strength of getting the Flaccianello as a superTuscan, Nano edged Ben for second) and for 1st and 2nd place wines (89 Bonneau and 91 Richebourg

I liked La Fonda del Sol (and location is ideal for me). Nice service, good stems, good food. We shared some charcuterie and pate, as well as empanadas. Then I had a great octopus dish, and a good steelhead (menu called salmon, I usually call steelhead trout?) dish.

I unfortunately don't have my guessing sheets, but my guesses were pretty dismal.- that's ok, group's guesses were all over the place. Total doubleblind is very hard, and this format (no discussion other than whether we liked) is even harder, as opposed to what I'm more used to (more of a "What's my line" format). Wines were blind, people were allowed to re-bottle, then we used identical bags so no one could be sure of even their own wine (but you got no points for that wine)

We started with a white to give us practice on scoring. Nice wine, medium to full bodied, clean fruit. I first wrote down Sancerre, but then decided it was too soft, and I didn't get much SB grassiness, so went with white Bordeaux (we were being specific, I think I guessed 2000 La Louviere). Nope, 1999 Luneau-Papin Muscadet “L d’Or”*Muscadet. Very nice wine, and I think it's funny that I dismissed a Muscadet as too round to be a Sancerre.

After that the reds. An enthusiastic helper accidentally tossed my sheets this AM, but I'll try to be accurate in my remembrances

1989 Henri Bonneau Celestins CdP -WOTN by a large margin, I think everyone had in top 3. Changed a lot in glass- started off quite high toned, full bodied, red fruited with some tar and a hint of brett. I was guessing mid80s Barolo. Then on revisit the VA was down, fruit seems blacker, I made my official vote a 78 Bordeaux. No one guessed Chateauneuf, but we all loved, and if more CdP was made like this I'd be a buyer (though not at Bonneau pricing).

1991 Mongeard Mugneret Richebourg - my wine, and I was pretty sure (we had discussed point strategy based on Matt's system, getting your own wine right didn't get any points, so I guessed some other 1991 CdN in case I was wrong- I think Chevillon Cailles). I think one person was in CdN, this was quite rich which kept most away from Burgundy. Spicy, rich, nice.

1997 Fontodi *Flaccianello. Paul guessed I think '97 Solaia, which was best guess of evening. I liked, but I think I thought modern Bordeaux with some tannins remaining.

1989 Tertre Roteboeuf - I think I liked less than table, I thought edging overripeness and beginning to show age

1985 Barca Velha -pretty famous wine, I guess most famous dry Douro, but I think I can safely say no one (other than Ramon who brought) thought about Portugal at all. A bit tired and overripe, I thought 90 modernista Barolo

1995 Guigal La Ladonne
Big ripe, powerful, I liked but didn't love, I think I guessed RB Bordeaux.

OK, I'm forgetting something. Will check with others

After we tallied votes, Nano and Ben were in a tie for the 2nd place trophy.. We brought out the 1986 Rieussec, Ben was closer to vintage but Nano scored a win by getting Rieussec. Generous, good acidity, nice length.

Fun and humbling night. I think my favorites were Bonneau, Mongeard-Mugneret, and Rieussec, followed by Fontodi and Luneau-Papin. But of course I'm forgetting something. Matt did a tremendous job putting together.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.*

On Jan 26, 10:12*am, DaleW > wrote:
> Last night Matt organized a good group around the theme of "the good stuff" - a fun night of lighthearted blind guessing. He even provided trophies for the 1st and 2nd place guessers (Paul won first on strength of getting the Flaccianello as a superTuscan, Nano edged Ben for second) and for 1st and 2nd place wines (89 Bonneau and 91 Richebourg
>
> I liked La Fonda del Sol (and location is ideal for me). Nice service, good stems, good food. We shared some charcuterie and pate, as well as empanadas. Then I had a great octopus dish, and a good steelhead (menu called salmon, I usually call steelhead trout?) dish.
>
> I unfortunately don't have my guessing sheets, but my guesses were pretty dismal.- that's ok, group's guesses were all over the place. Total doubleblind is very hard, and *this format (no discussion other than whether we liked) is even harder, as opposed to what I'm more used to (more of a "What's my line" format). Wines were blind, people were allowed to re-bottle, then we used identical bags so no one could be sure of even their own wine (but you got no points for that wine)
>
> We started with a white to give us practice on scoring. Nice wine, medium to full bodied, clean fruit. I first wrote down Sancerre, but then decided it was too soft, and I didn't get much SB grassiness, so went with white Bordeaux (we were being specific, I think I guessed 2000 La Louviere). Nope, 1999 Luneau-Papin Muscadet “L d’Or”*Muscadet. Very nice wine, and I think it's funny that I dismissed a Muscadet as too round to be a Sancerre.
>
> After that the reds. An enthusiastic helper accidentally tossed my sheets this AM, but I'll try to be accurate in my remembrances
>
> 1989 Henri Bonneau Celestins CdP -WOTN by *a large margin, I think everyone had in top 3. Changed a lot in glass- started off quite high toned, full bodied, red fruited with some tar and a hint of brett. I was guessing mid80s Barolo. Then on revisit the VA was down, fruit seems blacker, I made my official vote a 78 Bordeaux. No one guessed Chateauneuf, but we all loved, and if more CdP was made like this I'd be a buyer (though not at Bonneau pricing).
>
> 1991 Mongeard Mugneret Richebourg - my wine, and I was pretty sure (we had discussed point strategy based on Matt's system, getting your own wine right didn't get any points, so I guessed some other 1991 CdN in case I was wrong- I think Chevillon Cailles). I think one person was in CdN, this was quite rich which kept most away from Burgundy. Spicy, rich, nice.
>
> 1997 Fontodi *Flaccianello. Paul guessed I think '97 Solaia, which was best guess of evening. I liked, but I think I thought modern Bordeaux with some tannins remaining.
>
> 1989 Tertre Roteboeuf - I think I liked less than table, I thought edging overripeness and beginning to show age
>
> 1985 Barca Velha -pretty famous wine, I guess most famous dry Douro, but I think I can safely say no one (other than Ramon who brought) thought about Portugal at all. A bit tired and overripe, I thought 90 modernista Barolo
>
> 1995 Guigal La Ladonne
> Big ripe, powerful, I liked but didn't love, I think I guessed RB Bordeaux.

On 1/26/11 10:12 AM, DaleW wrote:

>
> We started with a white to give us practice on scoring. Nice wine,
> medium to full bodied, clean fruit. I first wrote down Sancerre,
> but then decided it was too soft, and I didn't get much SB grassiness,
> so went with white Bordeaux (we were being specific, I think I guessed
> 2000 La Louviere). Nope, 1999 Luneau-Papin Muscadet “L d’Or” Muscadet.
> Very nice wine, and I think it's funny that I dismissed a Muscadet as
> too round to be a Sancerre.

I'm terribly surprised by this. Aged Muscadet does get remarkably round
in texture, as does Chablis. I haven't had the '99 L d'Or but did have
the '97 in London a few years ago with Rahsaan. I think the reason that
it's hard to pin down is that even with age these wines remain so fresh
that it's hard to guess how old they are.


> 1989 Henri Bonneau Celestins CdP -WOTN by a large margin, I think
> everyone had in top 3. Changed a lot in glass- started off quite high
> toned, full bodied, red fruited with some tar and a hint of brett. I was
> guessing mid80s Barolo. Then on revisit the VA was down, fruit seems
> blacker, I made my official vote a 78 Bordeaux. No one guessed
Chateauneuf,
> but we all loved, and if more CdP was made like this I'd be a buyer
(though
> not at Bonneau pricing).

That does sound like a remarkable wine, Dale. What a treat!


> 1995 Guigal La Ladonne
> Big ripe, powerful, I liked but didn't love, I think I guessed RB Bordeaux.

And doesn't that say it all about the LaLas? :P

It sounds like a very fun night, Dale. Thanks for posting these notes!

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

p.s. For some reason, Dale, your post had no line breaks in it, so had
lines much longer than 79 characters. I had to reformat your quoted
text before I was allowed to post through the AIOE server. Weird!

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Bi!!" > wrote in
:

>
> Nice. Good notes on the1989 Tertre Roteboeuf. I have a couple
> bottles and will drink them soon.

I have had the luck to taste TR on a few occasions and I have been less
than impressed with older bottles. It is mostly out of my budget anyway,
but I rather buy a recent vintage than an older one.

Any of you has a track record with bottles older than -say- 20 years?

s.

Mark Lipton wrote:
> p.s. For some reason, Dale, your post had no line breaks in it, so had
> lines much longer than 79 characters. I had to reformat your quoted
> text before I was allowed to post through the AIOE server. Weird!

Actually, Mark, this is up your alley. Or not entirely - this is due to the
interplay of your TB settings with a subtle change in Dale's posting method. I
suggest you set your TB to support format-flowed on both reading and writing.
Unfortunately I don't know if it is in the same place in TB.3 - I was so
disgusted by the "improvements" in it, that I promptly uninstalled it and went
back to TB2. Here, in TB2, the settings are in about:config (Tools-> Options->
Advanced-> Config Editor), and should be
mailnews.display.disable_format_flowed_support -> false
mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed -> true
As a matter of fact, Dale's post has hard-coded line breaks, which you can
see by looking at the message source. The difference in his posting, which I
suspect triggered the effect you observe, is that he changed his encoding from
ISO-8859-1 to windows-1252, which made GoogleCrap switch the transfer encoding
to quoted-printable. I'm not sure Dale is aware of any of these changes.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

On 1/26/11 2:31 PM, Patok wrote:
> Mark Lipton wrote:
>> p.s. For some reason, Dale, your post had no line breaks in it, so had
>> lines much longer than 79 characters. I had to reformat your quoted
>> text before I was allowed to post through the AIOE server. Weird!
>
> Actually, Mark, this is up your alley. Or not entirely - this is due to
> the interplay of your TB settings with a subtle change in Dale's posting
> method. I suggest you set your TB to support format-flowed on both
> reading and writing. Unfortunately I don't know if it is in the same
> place in TB.3 - I was so disgusted by the "improvements" in it, that I
> promptly uninstalled it and went back to TB2. Here, in TB2, the settings
> are in about:config (Tools-> Options-> Advanced-> Config Editor), and
> should be
> mailnews.display.disable_format_flowed_support -> false
> mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed -> true
> As a matter of fact, Dale's post has hard-coded line breaks, which you
> can see by looking at the message source. The difference in his posting,
> which I suspect triggered the effect you observe, is that he changed his
> encoding from ISO-8859-1 to windows-1252, which made GoogleCrap switch
> the transfer encoding to quoted-printable. I'm not sure Dale is aware of
> any of these changes.
>

Aha! Thanks, Elk...er... Patok ;-) Suffice it to say that I would
never have found that on my own. As I use a Mac (and TB 3.1.7), the
about:config settings were accessed in Thunderbird-> Preferences->
Advanced-> General-> Config Editor. As expected, I found that the
second variable was set to false and so changed it. (Dale's posts were
being displayed correctly; it was only when I tried to reply that the
line breaks got munged) Interestingly, when I look at the message
source, I do see line breaks, but also = at the end of each line -- a
windows-1252 thing?

Thanks again!
Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton wrote:
> On 1/26/11 2:31 PM, Patok wrote:
>> Mark Lipton wrote:
>>> p.s. For some reason, Dale, your post had no line breaks in it, so had
>>> lines much longer than 79 characters. I had to reformat your quoted
>>> text before I was allowed to post through the AIOE server. Weird!
>>
>> Actually, Mark, this is up your alley. Or not entirely - this is due to
>> the interplay of your TB settings with a subtle change in Dale's posting
>> method. I suggest you set your TB to support format-flowed on both
>> reading and writing. Unfortunately I don't know if it is in the same
>> place in TB.3 - I was so disgusted by the "improvements" in it, that I
>> promptly uninstalled it and went back to TB2. Here, in TB2, the settings
>> are in about:config (Tools-> Options-> Advanced-> Config Editor), and
>> should be
>> mailnews.display.disable_format_flowed_support -> false
>> mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed -> true
>> As a matter of fact, Dale's post has hard-coded line breaks, which you
>> can see by looking at the message source. The difference in his posting,
>> which I suspect triggered the effect you observe, is that he changed his
>> encoding from ISO-8859-1 to windows-1252, which made GoogleCrap switch
>> the transfer encoding to quoted-printable. I'm not sure Dale is aware of
>> any of these changes.
>>
>
> Aha! Thanks, Elk...er... Patok ;-)

You're more than welcome! And good detective work - how did you find out?
I'm usually careful to separate them, even though I don't normally post stuff as
one that I wouldn't as the other; it's just for fun. But it's been a long
time since I was myself here, and I'm curious how you did it.


> Suffice it to say that I would
> never have found that on my own. As I use a Mac (and TB 3.1.7), the
> about:config settings were accessed in Thunderbird-> Preferences->
> Advanced-> General-> Config Editor. As expected, I found that the
> second variable was set to false and so changed it. (Dale's posts were
> being displayed correctly; it was only when I tried to reply that the
> line breaks got munged) Interestingly, when I look at the message
> source, I do see line breaks, but also = at the end of each line -- a
> windows-1252 thing?

No, I think it is a quoted-printable artifact. However, I'm pretty sure it
was triggered by the Windows-1252 charset change.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.
--
Whoever bans a book, shall be banished. Whoever burns a book, shall burn.

Patok wrote:
> Mark Lipton wrote:
>> On 1/26/11 2:31 PM, Patok wrote:
>>> Mark Lipton wrote:
>>>> p.s. For some reason, Dale, your post had no line breaks in it, so had
>>>> lines much longer than 79 characters. I had to reformat your quoted
>>>> text before I was allowed to post through the AIOE server. Weird!
>>>
>>> Actually, Mark, this is up your alley. Or not entirely - this is due to
>>> the interplay of your TB settings with a subtle change in Dale's posting
>>> method. I suggest you set your TB to support format-flowed on both
>>> reading and writing. Unfortunately I don't know if it is in the same
>>> place in TB.3 - I was so disgusted by the "improvements" in it, that I
>>> promptly uninstalled it and went back to TB2. Here, in TB2, the settings
>>> are in about:config (Tools-> Options-> Advanced-> Config Editor), and
>>> should be
>>> mailnews.display.disable_format_flowed_support -> false
>>> mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed -> true
>>> As a matter of fact, Dale's post has hard-coded line breaks, which you
>>> can see by looking at the message source. The difference in his posting,
>>> which I suspect triggered the effect you observe, is that he changed his
>>> encoding from ISO-8859-1 to windows-1252, which made GoogleCrap switch
>>> the transfer encoding to quoted-printable. I'm not sure Dale is aware of
>>> any of these changes.
>>>
>>
>> Aha! Thanks, Elk...er... Patok ;-)
>
> You're more than welcome! And good detective work - how did you find
> out? I'm usually careful to separate them, even though I don't normally
> post stuff as one that I wouldn't as the other; it's just for fun.
> But it's been a long time since I was myself here, and I'm curious how
> you did it.

Oh, it's my usual nosey behavior. Back when we had a discussion here
about the stereotypes of Bulgaria, I recalled a semi-regular poster who
had a Bulgarian-sounding name. A bit of searching Google's archive and
Googling the web made the connection, in part courtesy of umbc's
website. The connection stuck in my mind owing to my long-standing
interest in genetic algorithms, actually ;-)

Mark Lipton