SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, really fantastic night
of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
overall, and the food was great.

Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+

Onto the blind wines
Flight 1

Wine #1
Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
Good deal!
1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+

Wine #2
I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
B-/C+

Flight 2
I think John quickly got Piedmont

Wine #3
Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+

Wine #4
Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
originally, A at end

Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
wrong bottle.

Wine # 5
Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B

Wine # 6
Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-

Flight 4
Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
but I enjoy watching others struggle.

Wine #7
Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A

Wine #8
Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D

Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
white and green asparagus with morels

Wine # 9
Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-

Wine #10
Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-

Wine #11
Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
+

(I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)

Flight #6
Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997

Wine # 12
Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 Banfi "Poggio alle
Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+

Wine #13
Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-

Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
1990 Suduiraut
Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+

Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
easily have been WOTN.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

On Jun 9, 10:24*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, *really fantastic night
> of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> overall, and the food was great.
>
> Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> Onto the blind wines
> Flight 1
>
> Wine #1
> Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> Good deal!
> 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> Wine #2
> I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
> B-/C+
>
> Flight 2
> I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> Wine #3
> Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> Wine #4
> Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> originally, A at end
>
> Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> wrong bottle.
>
> Wine # 5
> Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> Wine # 6
> Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> Flight 4
> Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> Wine #7
> Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> Wine #8
> Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> white and green asparagus with morels
>
> Wine # 9
> Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> Wine #10
> Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> Wine #11
> Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
> +
>
> (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> Flight #6
> Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> Wine # 12
> Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 *Banfi "Poggio alle
> Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> Wine #13
> Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> 1990 Suduiraut
> Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> easily have been WOTN.
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
seemed very tired to me.

On Jun 10, 10:31�am, lleichtman > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 10:24�pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, �really fantastic night
> > of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> > overall, and the food was great.
>
> > Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> > and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> > Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> > nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> > Onto the blind wines
> > Flight 1
>
> > Wine #1
> > Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> > Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> > guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> > Good deal!
> > 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> > Wine #2
> > I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> > Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> > was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
> > B-/C+
>
> > Flight 2
> > I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> > Wine #3
> > Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> > fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> > maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> > Wine #4
> > Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> > a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> > that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> > blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> > nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> > originally, A at end
>
> > Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> > John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> > wrong bottle.
>
> > Wine # 5
> > Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> > Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> > Wine # 6
> > Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> > guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> > Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> > Flight 4
> > Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> > but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> > Wine #7
> > Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> > and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> > Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> > Wine #8
> > Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> > good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> > Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> > white and green asparagus with morels
>
> > Wine # 9
> > Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> > had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> > Wine #10
> > Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> > some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> > Wine #11
> > Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
> > +
>
> > (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> > Flight #6
> > Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> > Wine # 12
> > Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> > acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 �Banfi "Poggio alle
> > Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> > Wine #13
> > Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> > Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> > Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> > 1990 Suduiraut
> > Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> > rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> > Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> > Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> > easily have been WOTN.
>
> > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
> I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
> seemed very tired to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I recently had a '70 Lafite from 3 litre that was pretty far gone and
it's been at 55F since 1985...before that it was stored in a passive
basement cellar and purchased in France on release.

On Jun 10, 9:39*am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 10:31 am, lleichtman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 10:24 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, really fantastic night
> > > of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> > > overall, and the food was great.
>
> > > Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> > > and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> > > Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> > > nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> > > Onto the blind wines
> > > Flight 1
>
> > > Wine #1
> > > Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> > > Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> > > guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> > > Good deal!
> > > 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> > > Wine #2
> > > I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> > > Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> > > was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer..
> > > B-/C+
>
> > > Flight 2
> > > I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> > > Wine #3
> > > Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> > > fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> > > maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> > > Wine #4
> > > Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> > > a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> > > that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> > > blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> > > nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> > > originally, A at end
>
> > > Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> > > John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> > > wrong bottle.
>
> > > Wine # 5
> > > Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> > > Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> > > Wine # 6
> > > Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> > > guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> > > Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> > > Flight 4
> > > Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> > > but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> > > Wine #7
> > > Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> > > and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> > > Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> > > Wine #8
> > > Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> > > good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> > > Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> > > white and green asparagus with morels
>
> > > Wine # 9
> > > Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> > > had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> > > Wine #10
> > > Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> > > some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> > > Wine #11
> > > Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
> > > +
>
> > > (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> > > Flight #6
> > > Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> > > Wine # 12
> > > Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> > > acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 Banfi "Poggio alle
> > > Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> > > Wine #13
> > > Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> > > Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> > > Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> > > 1990 Suduiraut
> > > Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> > > rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> > > Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> > > Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> > > easily have been WOTN.
>
> > > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> > Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
> > I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
> > seemed very tired to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I recently had a '70 Lafite from 3 litre that was pretty far gone and
> it's been at 55F since 1985...before that it was stored in a passive
> basement cellar and purchased in France on release.

Quite a few of the 70s are a bit long-in-tooth and some are too old
now. However properly stored bottles of some are still at the peak,
and Latour might even improve a bit more. Concerning 70 Lafite, I had
about 2 cases in single bottles and magnums. They have been properly
stored by me since shortly after release and never moved. Of course at
this age you will find a few off bottles due to cork and other issues,
even if all of the bottles are from the same case and have been stored
the same. My impression of the 70 Lafite over the years is that it
usually is decent, but it not quite up to what a top red Bordeaux
should be. However the auction price of Lafite from the better
vintages from 1961 through 1978 has greatly increased in recent years,
and , excluding Petrus, it is now usually only exceeded in priceby
Latour of the same vintage. According to Decanter, the70 Lafite is now
going for 2698 UK Pounds per case at auction in the UK. At this price,
one is nearly tempted to send any Lafite 70 one has to auction. I can
think of several other less expensive older wines I would rather have
than the 70 Lafite. I am not certain what has caused Lafite from this
era to increase so much in recent years. It is very popular in China
and other countries in that part of the world. Perhaps it mixes with
Cola better than some other famous red Bordeauxs, or perhaps the
labels are especially tasty :-). I also find it hard to believe that
the 70 Mouton goes for only 330 UK pounds per case at auction, while
the 75 goes for 1920. My 70 Mouton is perhaps a bit four-square, but
it still is holding well. My 75 Mouton is quite drinkable, but not a
top Mouton and still has some of the harshness of the 75 vintage.
Perhaps it is the Andy Warhol label on the 75 that has increased the
price of it :-) . It also may help that Warhol is dead. Even van Gogh
only sold one painting while alive, but now his paintings cost so much
that most of us could not afford the 24/7 security guards and
insurance payments to safely display a major van Gogh in our home.

Concerning Lafite, I think you need to try the 1959 that has been
perfectly stored to see what an older Lafite can be. If you want a top
status symbol as well as a top Lafite, the 1982 Lafite is going for
32093 Pounds per case at auction. This is over twice the price of the
82 Latour, although the 82 Petrus is a bit more expensive at 44488
Pounds per case at auction.

On Jun 10, 2:59�pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 9:39�am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 10:31 am, lleichtman > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 9, 10:24 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > > SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, really fantastic night
> > > > of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> > > > overall, and the food was great.
>
> > > > Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> > > > and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> > > > Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> > > > nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> > > > Onto the blind wines
> > > > Flight 1
>
> > > > Wine #1
> > > > Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> > > > Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> > > > guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> > > > Good deal!
> > > > 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> > > > Wine #2
> > > > I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> > > > Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> > > > was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
> > > > B-/C+
>
> > > > Flight 2
> > > > I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> > > > Wine #3
> > > > Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> > > > fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> > > > maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> > > > Wine #4
> > > > Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> > > > a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> > > > that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> > > > blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> > > > nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> > > > originally, A at end
>
> > > > Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> > > > John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> > > > wrong bottle.
>
> > > > Wine # 5
> > > > Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> > > > Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> > > > Wine # 6
> > > > Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> > > > guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> > > > Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> > > > Flight 4
> > > > Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> > > > but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> > > > Wine #7
> > > > Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> > > > and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> > > > Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> > > > Wine #8
> > > > Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> > > > good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> > > > Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> > > > white and green asparagus with morels
>
> > > > Wine # 9
> > > > Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> > > > had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> > > > Wine #10
> > > > Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> > > > some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> > > > Wine #11
> > > > Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases.. B
> > > > +
>
> > > > (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> > > > Flight #6
> > > > Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> > > > Wine # 12
> > > > Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> > > > acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 Banfi "Poggio alle
> > > > Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> > > > Wine #13
> > > > Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> > > > Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> > > > Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> > > > 1990 Suduiraut
> > > > Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> > > > rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> > > > Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> > > > Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> > > > easily have been WOTN.
>
> > > > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > > > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > > > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > > > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency..
>
> > > Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
> > > I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
> > > seemed very tired to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I recently had a '70 Lafite from 3 litre that was pretty far gone and
> > it's been at 55F since 1985...before that it was stored in a passive
> > basement cellar and purchased in France on release.
>
> Quite a few of the 70s are a bit long-in-tooth and some are too old
> now. However properly stored bottles of some are still at the peak,
> and Latour might even improve a bit more. Concerning 70 Lafite, I had
> about 2 cases in single bottles and magnums. They have been properly
> stored by me since shortly after release and never moved. Of course at
> this age you will find a few off bottles due to cork and other issues,
> even if all of the bottles are from the same case and have been stored
> the same. My impression of the 70 Lafite over the years is that it
> usually is decent, but it not quite up to what a top red Bordeaux
> should be. However the auction price of Lafite from the better
> vintages from 1961 through 1978 has greatly increased in recent years,
> and , excluding Petrus, it is now usually only exceeded in priceby
> Latour of the same vintage. According to Decanter, the70 Lafite is now
> going for 2698 UK Pounds per case at auction in the UK. At this price,
> one is nearly tempted to send any Lafite 70 one has to auction. I can
> think of several other less expensive older wines I would rather have
> than the 70 Lafite. I am not certain what has caused Lafite from this
> era to increase so much in recent years. It is very popular in China
> and other countries in that part of the world. Perhaps it mixes with
> Cola better than some other famous red Bordeauxs, or perhaps the
> labels are especially tasty :-). I also find it hard to believe that
> the 70 Mouton goes for only 330 UK pounds per case at auction, while
> the 75 goes for 1920. My 70 Mouton is perhaps a bit four-square, but
> it still is holding well. My 75 Mouton is quite drinkable, but not a
> top Mouton and still has some of the harshness of the 75 vintage.
> Perhaps it is the Andy Warhol label on the 75 that has increased the
> price of it :-) . It also may help that Warhol is dead. Even van Gogh
> only sold one painting while alive, but now his paintings cost so much
> that most of us could not afford the 24/7 security guards and
> insurance payments to safely display a major van Gogh in our home.
>
> Concerning Lafite, I think you need to try the 1959 that has been
> perfectly stored to see what an older Lafite can be. If you want a top
> status symbol as well as a top Lafite, the 1982 Lafite is going for
> 32093 Pounds per case at auction. This is over twice the price of the
> 82 Latour, although the 82 Petrus is a bit more expensive at 44488
> Pounds per case at auction.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the insight that your experience brings to this group. I
still have one 3 litre of 1970 Lafite left. I have a strong ethical
issue with selling wine that I suspect maybe past, corked or otherwise
not up to par ( having bought a few stinkers at auction over the
years) so I'll probably roast some lamb and pop it with a group of
friends.

On Jun 10, 3:23*pm, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2:59 pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 9:39 am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 10, 10:31 am, lleichtman > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 9, 10:24 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > > > SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, really fantastic night
> > > > > of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> > > > > overall, and the food was great.
>
> > > > > Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> > > > > and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> > > > > Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> > > > > nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> > > > > Onto the blind wines
> > > > > Flight 1
>
> > > > > Wine #1
> > > > > Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> > > > > Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> > > > > guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> > > > > Good deal!
> > > > > 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> > > > > Wine #2
> > > > > I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> > > > > Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> > > > > was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
> > > > > B-/C+
>
> > > > > Flight 2
> > > > > I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> > > > > Wine #3
> > > > > Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> > > > > fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> > > > > maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> > > > > Wine #4
> > > > > Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> > > > > a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> > > > > that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> > > > > blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> > > > > nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> > > > > originally, A at end
>
> > > > > Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> > > > > John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> > > > > wrong bottle.
>
> > > > > Wine # 5
> > > > > Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> > > > > Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> > > > > Wine # 6
> > > > > Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> > > > > guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> > > > > Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> > > > > Flight 4
> > > > > Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> > > > > but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> > > > > Wine #7
> > > > > Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> > > > > and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> > > > > Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> > > > > Wine #8
> > > > > Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> > > > > good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> > > > > Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> > > > > white and green asparagus with morels
>
> > > > > Wine # 9
> > > > > Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> > > > > had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> > > > > Wine #10
> > > > > Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> > > > > some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> > > > > Wine #11
> > > > > Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
> > > > > +
>
> > > > > (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> > > > > Flight #6
> > > > > Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> > > > > Wine # 12
> > > > > Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> > > > > acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 Banfi "Poggio alle
> > > > > Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> > > > > Wine #13
> > > > > Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> > > > > Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> > > > > Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> > > > > 1990 Suduiraut
> > > > > Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> > > > > rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> > > > > Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> > > > > Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> > > > > easily have been WOTN.
>
> > > > > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > > > > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > > > > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > > > > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> > > > Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
> > > > I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
> > > > seemed very tired to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I recently had a '70 Lafite from 3 litre that was pretty far gone and
> > > it's been at 55F since 1985...before that it was stored in a passive
> > > basement cellar and purchased in France on release.
>
> > Quite a few of the 70s are a bit long-in-tooth and some are too old
> > now. However properly stored bottles of some are still at the peak,
> > and Latour might even improve a bit more. Concerning 70 Lafite, I had
> > about 2 cases in single bottles and magnums. They have been properly
> > stored by me since shortly after release and never moved. Of course at
> > this age you will find a few off bottles due to cork and other issues,
> > even if all of the bottles are from the same case and have been stored
> > the same. My impression of the 70 Lafite over the years is that it
> > usually is decent, but it not quite up to what a top red Bordeaux
> > should be. However the auction price of Lafite from the better
> > vintages from 1961 through 1978 has greatly increased in recent years,
> > and , excluding Petrus, it is now usually only exceeded in priceby
> > Latour of the same vintage. According to Decanter, the70 Lafite is now
> > going for 2698 UK Pounds per case at auction in the UK. At this price,
> > one is nearly tempted to send any Lafite 70 one has to auction. I can
> > think of several other less expensive older wines I would rather have
> > than the 70 Lafite. I am not certain what has caused Lafite from this
> > era to increase so much in recent years. It is very popular in China
> > and other countries in that part of the world. Perhaps it mixes with
> > Cola better than some other famous red Bordeauxs, or perhaps the
> > labels are especially tasty :-). I also find it hard to believe that
> > the 70 Mouton goes for only 330 UK pounds per case at auction, while
> > the 75 goes for 1920. My 70 Mouton is perhaps a bit four-square, but
> > it still is holding well. My 75 Mouton is quite drinkable, but not a
> > top Mouton and still has some of the harshness of the 75 vintage.
> > Perhaps it is the Andy Warhol label on the 75 that has increased the
> > price of it :-) . It also may help that Warhol is dead. Even van Gogh
> > only sold one painting while alive, but now his paintings cost so much
> > that most of us could not afford the 24/7 security guards and
> > insurance payments to safely display a major van Gogh in our home.
>
> > Concerning Lafite, I think you need to try the 1959 that has been
> > perfectly stored to see what an older Lafite can be. If you want a top
> > status symbol as well as a top Lafite, the 1982 Lafite is going for
> > 32093 Pounds per case at auction. This is over twice the price of the
> > 82 Latour, although the 82 Petrus is a bit more expensive at 44488
> > Pounds per case at auction.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the insight that your experience brings to this group. *I
> still have one 3 litre of 1970 Lafite left. *I have a strong ethical
> issue with selling wine that I suspect maybe past, corked or otherwise
> not up to par ( having bought a few stinkers at auction over the
> years) so I'll probably roast some lamb and pop it with a group of
> friends.

(responding to everyone)

Bill,
I admire (and agree with) not selling wine that you think is cooked or
damaged. But if you think your wine is representative, there is
nothing wrong with selling wine that you have decided it past it for
your tastes that others might covet. It's no different than selling
2003 Pavie that you decide you don't want. In any case obviously
larger formats might show better. But it's probably just the wine. I
found this quote from a recent View for the Cellar (Gilman) re the 70:
" Chteau Lafite-Rothschild is also not particularly successful in
this vintage, as while the wine is complex and perfumed, it does not
display the customary intensity and grip of a great Lafite, and is
really a rather small-scaled vintage for this chteau "

CWDJR,
thanks for thoughtful post. I don't know how to explain how Lafite
became THE prestige wine in Asia (well, China/HK in particular) but it
has driven prices insanely up, for old and new wines. Even Carraudes
from good vintages sells for 3X in HK what it retailed for a few years
ago.

Larry,
the 70 LLC in particular has a variable rep.

Overall, I remain pretty much a fan of the '70 vintage. Not only top
wines like Latour and Trotanoy but second-growths and like status
wines like Canon, Ducru, Figeac, can verge on greatness. I've had
quality showings even from much more modest wines- de Pez, Calon
Segur, Soutard, Gloria. And a spontaneous decision to blind some
friends with a 70 St Pierre led to guesses of Burgundy, but none of 40
years old. I've had disappointing bottles of Pichon Lalande, but
really good ones too. A lot comes down to the individual bottles, and
a lot comes down to the individual taster (some people might find
wines dying that I consider complex). That's the fun of it!

On Jun 10, 4:35�pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 3:23�pm, "Bi!!" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 2:59 pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 10, 9:39 am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 10, 10:31 am, lleichtman > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jun 9, 10:24 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > > > > SOBER met at Tim's place in Stamford tonight, really fantastic night
> > > > > > of wine, food, and friendship. The wines showed extraordinarily well
> > > > > > overall, and the food was great.
>
> > > > > > Nice plates of salami and proscuitto, a great assortment of cheeses,
> > > > > > and a 1996 Deutz "Cuvee William Deutz" Rose Champagne to start.
> > > > > > Strawberries, parker rolls, mineral. Some slight oxidative notes, but
> > > > > > nothing worrisome. Very nice. B+
>
> > > > > > Onto the blind wines
> > > > > > Flight 1
>
> > > > > > Wine #1
> > > > > > Sweet, lemony, just a touch of sugar. Nice length, structure. I got
> > > > > > Riesling, then was told wrong when I guessed ZH. Not Alsace, someone
> > > > > > guessed Austria, then Germany. Tim said this was $14 with shipping.
> > > > > > Good deal!
> > > > > > 1994 Schloss Schoenborn Hochheimer Holle Riesling Kabinett. B/B+
>
> > > > > > Wine #2
> > > > > > I thought weird nose, lemon pledge meets musk. Dan immediately guesses
> > > > > > Gewurz. Light color, youthful, I didn't love this but was shocked it
> > > > > > was almost 30 years old. 1981 Klein aix Vieux Ramparts Geuwrztraminer.
> > > > > > B-/C+
>
> > > > > > Flight 2
> > > > > > I think John quickly got Piedmont
>
> > > > > > Wine #3
> > > > > > Red fruit, still some tannins, there's flowers and tar over good sweet
> > > > > > fruit. Very young, once Tim says it's a '70 I guess Borgogno (thinking
> > > > > > maybe reconditioned). No, it's the 1970 F. Rinaldi Barolo. A-/B+
>
> > > > > > Wine #4
> > > > > > Seems a bit older at first, red fruit intertwined with autumn leaves,
> > > > > > a hint of animal brett, a little herby note (someone says "anise" and
> > > > > > that sounds right). I prefer the Rinaldi, but a wonderful wine
> > > > > > blossoms while we continue evening, with a complex truffle meets earth
> > > > > > nose and a fresh demeanor. 1970 Barolo Mascarello Barolo B+
> > > > > > originally, A at end
>
> > > > > > Flight 3 (with pasta bolognese)
> > > > > > John gets Tuscany quickly. I actually guess Felsina Rancia, but for
> > > > > > wrong bottle.
>
> > > > > > Wine # 5
> > > > > > Fresh black cherry fruit, a hint of vanilla, solid, giving. Nice. 1995
> > > > > > Felsina "Rancia" Chianti Classico Riserva B+/B
>
> > > > > > Wine # 6
> > > > > > Good acids, leather and cherry, earth. Lovely, balanced. Once I've
> > > > > > guessed wrong I at least get Monsanto on next guess. 1993 Monsanto "il
> > > > > > Poggio" Chianti Classico Riserva. B+/A-
>
> > > > > > Flight 4
> > > > > > Someone guesses Italy. I guess Pepe MdA (on #7), Tim quietly confirms,
> > > > > > but I enjoy watching others struggle.
>
> > > > > > Wine #7
> > > > > > Sweet sweet red fruit, good acids, fresh turned earth, coffee, exotic
> > > > > > and complex. Long, lovely. I like maybe a bit more than others. 1982
> > > > > > Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. A-/A
>
> > > > > > Wine #8
> > > > > > Maderized, the chance one takes with older Pepe. But I think someone
> > > > > > good lurked there. 1985 Emidio Pepe Montepulciano d' Abruzzo. D
>
> > > > > > Flight #5 with crusted stuffed chicken, white beans with tomatoes,a nd
> > > > > > white and green asparagus with morels
>
> > > > > > Wine # 9
> > > > > > Sweet cassis, smoke, tobacco, earth. Long, lovely, best bottle I've
> > > > > > had of the 1970 Gruaud Larose. A-
>
> > > > > > Wine #10
> > > > > > Dark fruit, tar, smoke, a bit bulky. I liked Gruaud best, but with
> > > > > > some air the Montrose pulled even. 1970 Montrose A-
>
> > > > > > Wine #11
> > > > > > Redder fruit, cedar, cigarbox, nice length. 1970 Leoville Las Cases. B
> > > > > > +
>
> > > > > > (I have a bottle or two of each of these Bdx, hope they show as well!)
>
> > > > > > Flight #6
> > > > > > Someone quickly gets Brunello, and then 1997
>
> > > > > > Wine # 12
> > > > > > Tannic structure, dark berry fruit, saddle leather, a bit soft on the
> > > > > > acids. I like a tad less than others. 1997 Banfi "Poggio alle
> > > > > > Mura"Brunello di Montalcino. B/B+
>
> > > > > > Wine #13
> > > > > > Low acid, soft, some herby notes, I'm not really a fan. 1997 Poggio
> > > > > > Antico Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. B-
>
> > > > > > Non blind dessert wine (with berries and ice cream)
> > > > > > 1990 Suduiraut
> > > > > > Quite dark in color, but wine seems solid. Toffee, coffee, citrus
> > > > > > rind, marmalade. Nice length. B+
>
> > > > > > Really excellent night, thanks to Tim for great job hosting. The
> > > > > > Champagne, both Barolos, Monsanto, Pepe, or any of the Bordeaux could
> > > > > > easily have been WOTN.
>
> > > > > > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > > > > > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > > > > > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > > > > > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> > > > > Nice notes as always. The 1970 Bordeaux must have been well stored as
> > > > > I had a 1970 Leoville las Cases last week at a friend's house and it
> > > > > seemed very tired to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > I recently had a '70 Lafite from 3 litre that was pretty far gone and
> > > > it's been at 55F since 1985...before that it was stored in a passive
> > > > basement cellar and purchased in France on release.
>
> > > Quite a few of the 70s are a bit long-in-tooth and some are too old
> > > now. However properly stored bottles of some are still at the peak,
> > > and Latour might even improve a bit more. Concerning 70 Lafite, I had
> > > about 2 cases in single bottles and magnums. They have been properly
> > > stored by me since shortly after release and never moved. Of course at
> > > this age you will find a few off bottles due to cork and other issues,
> > > even if all of the bottles are from the same case and have been stored
> > > the same. My impression of the 70 Lafite over the years is that it
> > > usually is decent, but it not quite up to what a top red Bordeaux
> > > should be. However the auction price of Lafite from the better
> > > vintages from 1961 through 1978 has greatly increased in recent years,
> > > and , excluding Petrus, it is now usually only exceeded in priceby
> > > Latour of the same vintage. According to Decanter, the70 Lafite is now
> > > going for 2698 UK Pounds per case at auction in the UK. At this price,
> > > one is nearly tempted to send any Lafite 70 one has to auction. I can
> > > think of several other less expensive older wines I would rather have
> > > than the 70 Lafite. I am not certain what has caused Lafite from this
> > > era to increase so much in recent years. It is very popular in China
> > > and other countries in that part of the world. Perhaps it mixes with
> > > Cola better than some other famous red Bordeauxs, or perhaps the
> > > labels are especially tasty :-). I also find it hard to believe that
> > > the 70 Mouton goes for only 330 UK pounds per case at auction, while
> > > the 75 goes for 1920. My 70 Mouton is perhaps a bit four-square, but
> > > it still is holding well. My 75 Mouton is quite drinkable, but not a
> > > top Mouton and still has some of the harshness of the 75 vintage.
> > > Perhaps it is the Andy Warhol label on the 75 that has increased the
> > > price of it :-) . It also may help that Warhol is dead. Even van Gogh
> > > only sold one painting while alive, but now his paintings cost so much
> > > that most of us could not afford the 24/7 security guards and
> > > insurance payments to safely display a major van Gogh in our home.
>
> > > Concerning Lafite, I think you need to try the 1959 that has been
> > > perfectly stored to see what an older Lafite can be. If you want a top
> > > status symbol as well as a top Lafite, the 1982 Lafite is going for
> > > 32093 Pounds per case at auction. This is over twice the price of the
> > > 82 Latour, although the 82 Petrus is a bit more expensive at 44488
> > > Pounds per case at auction.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Thanks for the insight that your experience brings to this group. �I
> > still have one 3 litre of 1970 Lafite left. �I have a strong ethical
> > issue with selling wine that I suspect maybe past, corked or otherwise
> > not up to par ( having bought a few stinkers at auction over the
> > years) so I'll probably roast some lamb and pop it with a group of
> > friends.
>
> (responding to everyone)
>
> Bill,
> I admire (and agree with) not selling wine that you think is cooked or
> damaged. But if you think your wine is representative, there is
> nothing wrong with selling wine that you have decided it past it for
> your tastes that others might covet. It's no different than selling
> 2003 Pavie that you decide you don't want. In any case obviously
> larger formats might show better. But it's probably just the wine. I
> found this quote from a recent View for the Cellar (Gilman) re the 70:
> " Ch�teau Lafite-Rothschild is also not particularly successful in
> this vintage, as while the wine is complex and perfumed, it does not
> display the customary intensity and grip of a great Lafite, and is
> really a rather small-scaled vintage for this ch�teau "
>
> CWDJR,
> thanks for thoughtful post. I don't know how to explain how Lafite
> became THE prestige wine in Asia (well, China/HK in particular) but it
> has driven prices insanely up, for old and new wines. Even Carraudes
> from good vintages sells for 3X in HK what it retailed for a few years
> ago.
>
> Larry,
> the 70 LLC in particular has a variable rep.
>
> Overall, I remain pretty much a fan of the '70 vintage. Not only top
> wines like Latour and Trotanoy but second-growths and like status
> wines like Canon, Ducru, Figeac, can verge on greatness. I've had
> quality showings even from much more modest wines- de Pez, Calon
> Segur, Soutard, �Gloria. �And a spontaneous decision to blind
> ...
>
> read more �- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What the heck is wrong with 2003 Pavie? :-)