http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...ers-wine-fraud
As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive gimmick? Or
will it be actually used for auctions of whole cases of pricey old wines?
--
Vilco
Don't think pink: drink rosè

On Mar 22, 8:57*am, "ViLco" > wrote:
> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive gimmick? Or
> will it be actually used for auctions of whole cases of pricey old wines?

In general, carbon dating, using the ratio of isotopes of carbon, has
been long used and is well established. In this specific case I will
reserve judgment until a publication in a journal of high repute that
uses peer review appears. There likely are many labs that could do
this type of testing - many are in universities. Besides having the
needed equipment available, there will be some cost for sample
preparation etc. It seems that the test might be most useful for
older, expensive wines that appear on the auction market and do not
seem right. It is very easy to fake labels these days, so testing
before the wine is sold will mean little if someone fakes a label that
has a message that the wine has been tested.

On Mar 22, 9:57�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive gimmick? Or
> will it be actually used for auctions of whole cases of pricey old wines?
> --
> � Vilco
> Don't think pink: drink ros�

There is a detailed explanation about the processs in the book
'Billionaire's Vinegar". More ultra-expensive gimmick than an
everyday tool for detecting fraud.

Bi!! wrote on Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT):

> On Mar 22, 9:57�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
>> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
>> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive
>> gimmick? Or will it be actually used for auctions of whole
>> cases of pricey old wines? -- � Vilco Don't think pink: drink
>> ros�

> There is a detailed explanation about the processs in the book
> 'Billionaire's Vinegar". More ultra-expensive gimmick than
> an everyday tool for detecting fraud.

I kind of doubt that radio-carbon dating is particularly accurate for
recent (say 2 centuries old) objects since the change in carbon ratios
would be very small indeed. It's also true that mankind has been messing
around with isotopic content by nuclear testing in the last century.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Bi!! wrote on Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT):
>
>> On Mar 22, 9:57�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
>>> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
>>> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive
>>> gimmick? Or will it be actually used for auctions of whole
>>> cases of pricey old wines? -- � Vilco Don't think pink: drink
>>> ros�
>
>> There is a detailed explanation about the processs in the book
>> 'Billionaire's Vinegar". More ultra-expensive gimmick than
>> an everyday tool for detecting fraud.
>
> I kind of doubt that radio-carbon dating is particularly accurate for
> recent (say 2 centuries old) objects since the change in carbon ratios
> would be very small indeed. It's also true that mankind has been messing
> around with isotopic content by nuclear testing in the last century.


"The method was tested using 20 Australian red wines made from 1958 to 1997
and found it was accurate to within one year."

pk

pk wrote on Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:02:01 -0000:

> "James Silverton" > wrote in
> message ...
>> Bi!! wrote on Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT):
>>
>>> On Mar 22, 9:57�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
>>>> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
>>>> As the article says, will it ne just another
>>>> ultra-expensive gimmick? Or will it be actually used for
>>>> auctions of whole cases of pricey old wines? -- � Vilco
>>>> Don't think pink: drink ros�
>>
>>> There is a detailed explanation about the processs in the
>>> book 'Billionaire's Vinegar". More ultra-expensive gimmick
>>> than an everyday tool for detecting fraud.
>>
>> I kind of doubt that radio-carbon dating is particularly
>> accurate for recent (say 2 centuries old) objects since the
>> change in carbon ratios would be very small indeed. It's also
>> true that mankind has been messing around with isotopic
>> content by nuclear testing in the last century.

> "The method was tested using 20 Australian red wines made from
> 1958 to 1997 and found it was accurate to within one year."

I will wait to see what happens when the study is actually published in
a reviewed scientific journal not as a presentation at a scientific
meeting, even a prestigious one, where only plausibility is considered.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Mike Tommasi wrote:

>> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...ers-wine-fraud
>> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive
>> gimmick? Or will it be actually used for auctions of whole cases of
>> pricey old wines?

> I think it would be cheaper to cut the bottle and count the rings.

LOL
When I read that article I thougth: "Wow, so we have to thank those nuclear
tests if we can date wine with this system. But wait, there hasn't been any
nuclear atmospheric test in the last years. If these guys want to date
current vintages, what will they do? Ask some president to throw another
couple bombs to 'mark' the current years?"
Probably it was the effect of the lack of lambrusco at supper...
--
Vilco
Don't think pink: drink rosè

Mike Tommasi wrote:

>> Probably it was the effect of the lack of lambrusco at supper...

> I'm back in lambro-land tomorrow so I'll have many occasions to see if
> lambrusco is a nuclear deterrent. Last time I was there I picked up
> what I thought was lambrusco but turned out to be a local chestnut
> beer - very good.

Chestnut-beer? Those guys in the breweries are going frenzy with anything
they can get theyr hands upon.
BTW - a nice one: "Rosso all'Antica" from Azienda Agricola Bertolani, an old
style, very acidic lambrusco. Wonderful on a hearthy trippa alla parmigiana
or any savoury and succulent dish.
--
Vilco
Don't think pink: drink rosè

On Mar 23, 7:29�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
> Mike Tommasi wrote:
> >>http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-....
> >> As the article says, will it ne just another ultra-expensive
> >> gimmick? Or will it be actually used for auctions of whole cases of
> >> pricey old wines?
> > I think it would be cheaper to cut the bottle and count the rings.
>
> LOL
> When I read that article I thougth: "Wow, so we have to thank those nuclear
> tests if we can date wine with this system. But wait, there hasn't been any
> nuclear atmospheric test in the last years. If these guys want to date
> current vintages, what will they do? Ask some president to throw another
> couple bombs to 'mark' the current years?"
> Probably it was the effect of the lack of lambrusco at supper...
> --
> � Vilco
> Don't think pink: drink ros�

There you have the basic flaw in the system. It only dates from the
early 1950's.

Mike wrote on Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:28:28 +0100:

> Bi!! wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 7:29�am, "ViLco" > wrote:
>>> Mike Tommasi wrote:
>>>>> http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...test-uncovers-...
>>>>> As the article says, will it ne just another
>>>>> ultra-expensive gimmick? Or will it be actually used for
>>>>> auctions of whole cases of pricey old wines?
>>>> I think it would be cheaper to cut the bottle and count the
>>>> rings.
>>> LOL
>>> When I read that article I thougth: "Wow, so we have to thank those
>>> nuclear tests if we can date wine with this system. But
>>> wait, there hasn't been any nuclear atmospheric test in the last
>>> years. If these guys want to date current vintages,
>>> what will they do? Ask some president to throw
>>> another couple bombs to 'mark' the current years?" Probably it was
>>> the effect of the lack of lambrusco at supper... -- �
>>> Vilco Don't think pink: drink ros�
>>
>> There you have the basic flaw in the system. It only dates
>> from the early 1950's.

> Surely Chernobyl must help with more recent vintages? Most of Europe
> was hit, some areas here in SE France are still
> inaccessible due to Cesium 137 pollution from the event.

I'm sure isotope detection it will date wines from the time of the event
but the original post concerned Carbon-14/Carbon-12 ratios and very
highly priced wines will mostly be older than 24 or so years.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not