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Old 27-01-2010, 03:03 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

Craig was hosting SOBER last night, as his apartment is small, his
friends Franco and Rebecca agreed to host in their lovely Chelsea
loft. Arrived and was greeted with cheeses, salami, pate, and a NV
Bremont Rose Champagne. I'd never heard of this producer, but this is
a flat out lovely Champagne. Sweet red fruits, a little bready edge,
chalky minerality. Fine mousse, good acids, well balanced. A-/A

There was also the infamous Scores bubbly ($200 in club, $6 on
closeout) that Craig had served last year. A bit flat/low acid, a
strange dilly note, I dumped so we could get to the real wines. C+/C

Once everyone arrived, on to the blind wines.

Flight #1 -never have we flailed so long before identifying wines

Wine 1 - a little browning, dusty nose, sweet, a bit short/tired. Some
(with better TCA senses than I) say it's corked,but I don't get it. To
me more of a mushroomy edge than corked. 1966 Peyrat Freres Moulin-a-
Vent. B-/C+

Wine #2 - sweet, red currant fruit, slightly lifted nose, showing it's
age but a nice wine. 1966 Peyrat Freres St Amour. B

Wine 1A- served as a replacement for the possibly corked number 1, but
it is basically undrinkable- vile wine with sewage and VA. 1966 Peyrat
Freres Julienas F

Fun, what a different way to start. Oldest Gamays I've ever tried, and
the St Amour shows they can age. I'm guessing that Julienas had
something bacterial going when bottled (never heard of producer
before)

Flight #2
Wine #1 - earthy, leather, a bit of poop over red fruit. Fully mature,
maybe fading, but I really enjoy this (in minority as having it as
favorite of flight). Tim goes Rhone, seems right to me. 1971 Mont
Redon Chateauneuf du Pape. B+

Wine #2 - very sweet red fruit, light caramel notes, peat, good
finish. A little odd metallic note on finish I didn't love. I was in
Rhone here also. Someone (John?) guessed old Zin, correctomundo. Table
liked a bit more than I did, buit nice. 1973 Ridge Geyserville B
(Geyserville label said "age at least 3 years")


Flight #3 (with homemade gravlax on latkes)

Wine #1 a bright white, with lemon fruit, a strong anise note, lots
of minerals. I said Chablis, Craig said correct but keep it quiet
while other end guesses. John says Raveneau, completely trumping my
guess! Nice wine, though there is a little lactic note on the finish
that some feel is precursor for PremOx. Drinking well now, why wait?
2004 Raveneau "Vaillons" Chablis. B+

Wine #2 - really nice, bigger, tensile acidity, crisp apple fruit, a
toasty note I thought was light oak. My guess was Cote d'Or
(Puligny?) and boy was I wrong. 1999 Luneau-Papin "L d'Or" Muscadet.
A-

Flight #4
Wine #1 - some found this green, I didn't, though there was a definite
herby note. Sweet bright red fruits, Gilman is again first to get it,
immediately insisting Northern Rhone. Fully mature, lighter end of
Syrah, somewhat divides table. 1978 Domaine de l'Hermite Hermitage. B+

Wine #2 - much less fresh than its flightmate, red berry fruit with a
touch of ashtray, tired, a kind of muddled finish. C+

(nice couscous and lamb stew in here)

Flight #5 -ok, I admit I initially thought 70s Bordeaux with both

Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-

Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+

Flight #6
Wine #1 - seems like solid fruit, but laced with TCA. Some discussion
about how it shows in different glasses, but I'm pretty certain, and
with some air apparent to all. Sad, it's the 1999 Ponsot Clos de la
Roche

Wine #2 - Really ripe, spice, some slightly prickly acidity. Guesses
include CA Pinot. There is shock when it's revealed. 2001 Jacky
Truchot Clos de la Roche. B

Wine #1A - the replacement, straight from Franco's cellar. Delicious,
long, ripe and balanced. Lovely Burgundy. 1999 Clos des Lambrays. A-

Really fun evening, thanks to Craig for organizing wines and cooking,
and to Franco and Rebecca for great hospitality. .

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an
excellent*wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I
wouldn't*drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I
offer no*promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of
consistency.**

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Old 27-01-2010, 03:07 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 9:03*am, DaleW wrote:

Wine #2 - much less fresh than its flightmate, red berry fruit with a
touch of ashtray, tired, a kind of muddled finish. C+


Sorry, flight 4 wine 2 was
1978 Domaine de Vallouit Hermitage
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Old 27-01-2010, 05:36 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On 1/27/10 9:03 AM, DaleW wrote:

Wine #1 a bright white, with lemon fruit, a strong anise note, lots
of minerals. I said Chablis, Craig said correct but keep it quiet
while other end guesses. John says Raveneau, completely trumping my
guess! Nice wine, though there is a little lactic note on the finish
that some feel is precursor for PremOx. Drinking well now, why wait?
2004 Raveneau "Vaillons" Chablis. B+

Wine #2 - really nice, bigger, tensile acidity, crisp apple fruit, a
toasty note I thought was light oak. My guess was Cote d'Or
(Puligny?) and boy was I wrong. 1999 Luneau-Papin "L d'Or" Muscadet.
A-


What an interesting lineup of wines, Dale. Did Craig find those old
Bojos on the secondary market or did he purchase them way back when?
And I am not terribly surprised about your reaction to the '99 L d'Or.
You may recall my comments expressed awhile ago that good Muscadet
scratches much the same itch as Chablis for me.

Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-

Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+


I'm not surprised that you liked these so much. I have great memories
of some of those mid-'70s Phelps Cabs, and I'm still cellaring a few
Insignias from '94 and '98 in hopes that they may eventually develop
along similar lines.

So, what were your WOTNs, Dale? The L d'Or and the Clos des Lambrays?
And what were the group's WOTNs?

Thanks for the notes,
Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
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Old 27-01-2010, 07:12 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 11:36*am, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 1/27/10 9:03 AM, DaleW wrote:

Wine #1 a bright *white, with lemon fruit, a strong anise note, lots
of minerals. *I said Chablis, Craig said correct but keep it quiet
while other end guesses. John says Raveneau, completely trumping my
guess! *Nice wine, though there is a little lactic note on the finish
that some feel is precursor for PremOx. Drinking well now, why wait?
2004 Raveneau "Vaillons" Chablis. B+


Wine #2 - really nice, bigger, tensile acidity, crisp apple fruit, a
toasty note I thought was light oak. My guess was Cote d'Or
(Puligny?) and boy was I wrong. 1999 Luneau-Papin "L d'Or" Muscadet.
A-


What an interesting lineup of wines, Dale. *Did Craig find those old
Bojos on the secondary market or did he purchase them way back when?
And I am not terribly surprised about your reaction to the '99 L d'Or.
You may recall my comments expressed awhile ago that good Muscadet
scratches much the same itch as Chablis for me.

Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-


Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+


I'm not surprised that you liked these so much. *I have great memories
of some of those mid-'70s Phelps Cabs, and I'm still cellaring a few
Insignias from '94 and '98 in hopes that they may eventually develop
along similar lines.

So, what were your WOTNs, Dale? *The L d'Or and the Clos des Lambrays?
And what were the group's WOTNs?

Thanks for the notes,
Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


I believe that the Beaujolais were from recent parcel sold at Crush,
if I heard correctly
If I had to choose a WOTN, maybe the rose Champagne!
But the Muscadet, Clos des Lambrays, and Insignia were all excellent.
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Old 27-01-2010, 07:29 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 11:36�am, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 1/27/10 9:03 AM, DaleW wrote:

Wine #1 a bright �white, with lemon fruit, a strong anise note, lots
of minerals. �I said Chablis, Craig said correct but keep it quiet
while other end guesses. John says Raveneau, completely trumping my
guess! �Nice wine, though there is a little lactic note on the finish
that some feel is precursor for PremOx. Drinking well now, why wait?
2004 Raveneau "Vaillons" Chablis. B+


Wine #2 - really nice, bigger, tensile acidity, crisp apple fruit, a
toasty note I thought was light oak. My guess was Cote d'Or
(Puligny?) and boy was I wrong. 1999 Luneau-Papin "L d'Or" Muscadet.
A-


What an interesting lineup of wines, Dale. �Did Craig find those old
Bojos on the secondary market or did he purchase them way back when?
And I am not terribly surprised about your reaction to the '99 L d'Or.
You may recall my comments expressed awhile ago that good Muscadet
scratches much the same itch as Chablis for me.

Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-


Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+


I'm not surprised that you liked these so much. �I have great memories
of some of those mid-'70s Phelps Cabs, and I'm still cellaring a few
Insignias from '94 and '98 in hopes that they may eventually develop
along similar lines.

So, what were your WOTNs, Dale? �The L d'Or and the Clos des Lambrays?
And what were the group's WOTNs?

Thanks for the notes,
Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


I agree with your comment regarding the Phelps. I recently had a
couple Insignia's from the 70's that were excellent. They seem to
produce great wines every year regardless of conditions. What was the
deal on the premox with the Raveneau?


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Old 27-01-2010, 07:36 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 10:36*am, Mark Lipton wrote:
On 1/27/10 9:03 AM, DaleW wrote:


Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-


Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+


I'm not surprised that you liked these so much. *I have great memories
of some of those mid-'70s Phelps Cabs, and I'm still cellaring a few
Insignias from '94 and '98 in hopes that they may eventually develop
along similar lines.


For the most part, the Insignia from Joseph Phelps in the 70s was very
good and still is if properly stored. I still have a very few bottles
of 74 and 78 Insignia and 74 and 76 regular. I do not recall having a
bottle that was off, but I do not want to search very old tasting
notes just now.
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


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Old 27-01-2010, 09:17 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 1:29*pm, "Bi!!" wrote:
On Jan 27, 11:36 am, Mark Lipton wrote:





On 1/27/10 9:03 AM, DaleW wrote:


Wine #1 a bright white, with lemon fruit, a strong anise note, lots
of minerals. I said Chablis, Craig said correct but keep it quiet
while other end guesses. John says Raveneau, completely trumping my
guess! Nice wine, though there is a little lactic note on the finish
that some feel is precursor for PremOx. Drinking well now, why wait?
2004 Raveneau "Vaillons" Chablis. B+


Wine #2 - really nice, bigger, tensile acidity, crisp apple fruit, a
toasty note I thought was light oak. My guess was Cote d'Or
(Puligny?) and boy was I wrong. 1999 Luneau-Papin "L d'Or" Muscadet.
A-


What an interesting lineup of wines, Dale. Did Craig find those old
Bojos on the secondary market or did he purchase them way back when?
And I am not terribly surprised about your reaction to the '99 L d'Or.
You may recall my comments expressed awhile ago that good Muscadet
scratches much the same itch as Chablis for me.


Wine #1 - Good, ripe, strong fruit with solid acids, herbs, cocoa.
Lovely long wine, Mark and John I think both quickly said old CA,
really nice wine. 1976 Phelps Insignia. A-


Wine #2- sweet, ripe, nice wine without the density or complexity of
its flightmate, but still a nice wine. 1977 Phelps Eisele Cabernet
Sauvignon. B/B+


I'm not surprised that you liked these so much. I have great memories
of some of those mid-'70s Phelps Cabs, and I'm still cellaring a few
Insignias from '94 and '98 in hopes that they may eventually develop
along similar lines.


So, what were your WOTNs, Dale? The L d'Or and the Clos des Lambrays?
And what were the group's WOTNs?


Thanks for the notes,
Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ:http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


I agree with your comment regarding the Phelps. *I recently had a
couple Insignia's from the 70's that were excellent. *They seem to
produce great wines every year regardless of conditions. *What was the
deal on the premox with the Raveneau?


I didn't think it was PremOxed. Craig said he thought it advanced when
he first opened, with some oxidative notes, but seemed ok by time
served. But there was a little lactic/cheesey note on finish. Both
John and Andy felt that was a precursor of oxidation- tastes great
now, but could be a danger sign. I think I've summarized correctly.
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Old 28-01-2010, 06:03 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 27, 9:03*am, DaleW wrote:
There was also the infamous Scores bubbly ($200 in club, $6 on
closeout) that Craig had served last year.


?! Filling in the story would be welcome .

Wine #2 - very sweet red fruit, light caramel notes, peat, good
finish. A little odd metallic note on finish I didn't love. I was in
Rhone here also. Someone (John?) guessed old Zin, correctomundo. Table
liked a bit more than I did, but nice. 1973 Ridge Geyserville B
(Geyserville label said "age at least 3 years")


Oh, yum. We've finally finished unboxing wine after the move, and
there are several Ridge Zins from the early-mid 90s, but this is a
different league.

Really fun evening, thanks to Craig for organizing wines and cooking,
and to Franco and Rebecca for great hospitality. .


The lineup sounds like one of the more interesting tasting sets; very
fun.

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Old 28-01-2010, 06:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: SOBER does 60s Bojo, 70s CA & Rhones, +Loire, Burg, etc

On Jan 28, 12:03*pm, Ewan wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:03*am, DaleW wrote:

There was also the infamous Scores bubbly ($200 in club, $6 on
closeout) that Craig had served last year.


?! *Filling in the story would be welcome .

Scores was a famous strip club in city, closed a couple years ago
(though someone said they thought it has reopened).
Apparently this was the house bubbly (a Cremant de Bourgogne) with
their private label. They charged outrageous sums, not sure if
included lap dances.
When they closed(bankrupt?) a couple of NYC stores bought their stock,
so the $200 wine was under $10. I think Craig and friends bought a
couple of cases as a joke. It was never good, but I think it showed
better last year than now.



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