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Old 16-12-2009, 05:36 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

Matt got together a small group to try a bunch of midrange 2006
Bordeaux last night. None of us had bought much, so most of the wines
came as a group buy, with Matt doing the heavy lifting (literally and
figuratively). Public did a nice job with stems, decanters and
service, and the food was quite good. My choices (fried oysters in
shiso leaf, and a oxtail/snail ravioli) weren't the most Bordeaux
friendly, but I was in a whatthehell mood.

I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges “la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-

On to the reds (non-blind)

2006 Ch. La Vieille Cure (Fronsac)
Interesting nose of toffee and red fruit, but monolithic and closed on
palate. Tight and tannic, nothing to see here at the moment. Might
turn out nice, but for now B-/C+

2006 Ch. d’Aiguilhe (Cotes de Castillon)
Easily the value of the night for current drinking. Lush, red plums
and cocoa, drinking well, very tasty. B+

2006 Ch. Cantemerle (Haut Medoc)
Blast of brett at first, then it blows off partially. Plums, smoke,
medium length. B

2006 Ch. La Lagune (Haut Medoc)
Good, also just a hint of brett . Nice red fruit, woodsmoke, a bit of
mineral. Could be worth checking out in Jan sales. B+/A-

2006 Ch. Malescot St. Exupery (Margaux)
Really lovely Margaux nose of berries and sandalwood, but I found a
bit flat and lifeless on palate. Very low acid. Others enjoyed more.
B-

2006 Ch. Haut Bailly (Pessac-Leognan)
Wow, I was really surprised at this, oaky and unintegrated. I'm
usually a fan of Haut Bailly, but I didn't like this. Maybe time will
help. B-/C+

2006 Ch. Lynch Bages (Pauillac)
I was just as surprised at this, as other than the 1996 I haven't
really loved a Lynch since the 1989. But this was my favorite of the
evening, some oak but much more in touch with the fruit, the oak
cutting more of a cedary swath than a vanilla one. Cassis, herbs,
cedar. Tannic but they seem fine and manageable. A-

2006 Ch. Grand Puy Lacoste (Pauillac)
Overall nice, but there's a funny note I can't put my finger on in
nose-seaweed? Other than that, nice good Bordeaux, black fruits, ripe
tannins. B/B+

2006 Ch. Leoville Barton
Showing a lot of wood at first, but as black fruit deepens it becomes
more integrated. Big, blackcurrants, surprising oak but I think it'll
integrate. B+

2006 Ch. Pontet Canet (Pauillac)
Lush, modern, forward, big. I think a lot of people would love this.
B

2006 Ch. Duhart Milon (Pauillac)
I apparently stopped making notes here, but found this simple and
short. Wrote C+/B-

1988 Ch. Rieussec (from 375)
no notes but I know I found it lovely and full, B+

Fun night with nice group. Thanks to Matt for organizing. No true
stunners, but if good post holiday sales I might seriously consider
Lagune, Barton, Lynch, GPL, etc. Aiguilhe is probably a decent deal
already


Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an
excellent*wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I
wouldn't*drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I
offer no*promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of
consistency.**

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Old 16-12-2009, 07:21 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 651
Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

In article
,
DaleW wrote:

Matt got together a small group to try a bunch of midrange 2006
Bordeaux last night. None of us had bought much, so most of the wines
came as a group buy, with Matt doing the heavy lifting (literally and
figuratively). Public did a nice job with stems, decanters and
service, and the food was quite good. My choices (fried oysters in
shiso leaf, and a oxtail/snail ravioli) weren't the most Bordeaux
friendly, but I was in a whatthehell mood.

I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges ³la
Perrieres² Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-

On to the reds (non-blind)

2006 Ch. La Vieille Cure (Fronsac)
Interesting nose of toffee and red fruit, but monolithic and closed on
palate. Tight and tannic, nothing to see here at the moment. Might
turn out nice, but for now B-/C+

2006 Ch. d¹Aiguilhe (Cotes de Castillon)
Easily the value of the night for current drinking. Lush, red plums
and cocoa, drinking well, very tasty. B+

2006 Ch. Cantemerle (Haut Medoc)
Blast of brett at first, then it blows off partially. Plums, smoke,
medium length. B

2006 Ch. La Lagune (Haut Medoc)
Good, also just a hint of brett . Nice red fruit, woodsmoke, a bit of
mineral. Could be worth checking out in Jan sales. B+/A-

2006 Ch. Malescot St. Exupery (Margaux)
Really lovely Margaux nose of berries and sandalwood, but I found a
bit flat and lifeless on palate. Very low acid. Others enjoyed more.
B-

2006 Ch. Haut Bailly (Pessac-Leognan)
Wow, I was really surprised at this, oaky and unintegrated. I'm
usually a fan of Haut Bailly, but I didn't like this. Maybe time will
help. B-/C+

2006 Ch. Lynch Bages (Pauillac)
I was just as surprised at this, as other than the 1996 I haven't
really loved a Lynch since the 1989. But this was my favorite of the
evening, some oak but much more in touch with the fruit, the oak
cutting more of a cedary swath than a vanilla one. Cassis, herbs,
cedar. Tannic but they seem fine and manageable. A-

2006 Ch. Grand Puy Lacoste (Pauillac)
Overall nice, but there's a funny note I can't put my finger on in
nose-seaweed? Other than that, nice good Bordeaux, black fruits, ripe
tannins. B/B+

2006 Ch. Leoville Barton
Showing a lot of wood at first, but as black fruit deepens it becomes
more integrated. Big, blackcurrants, surprising oak but I think it'll
integrate. B+

2006 Ch. Pontet Canet (Pauillac)
Lush, modern, forward, big. I think a lot of people would love this.
B

2006 Ch. Duhart Milon (Pauillac)
I apparently stopped making notes here, but found this simple and
short. Wrote C+/B-

1988 Ch. Rieussec (from 375)
no notes but I know I found it lovely and full, B+

Fun night with nice group. Thanks to Matt for organizing. No true
stunners, but if good post holiday sales I might seriously consider
Lagune, Barton, Lynch, GPL, etc. Aiguilhe is probably a decent deal
already


Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an
excellent*wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I
wouldn't*drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I
offer no*promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of
consistency.**


I recently went to a tasting of 2006 Bordeaux wines and as a rule I
found them not that interesting. I think this may end up being a weak
vintage.
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Old 16-12-2009, 08:48 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

DaleW wrote:

I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges “la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


Dale,
I have no experience with Pinot Gouges, but does it have a typical
Pinot Blanc flavor profile? FWIW, I find PB pretty easy to identify,
with its aromatic, white floral and mineral nose.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
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Old 17-12-2009, 05:37 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 4,554
Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 16, 2:21*pm, Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
In article
,





*DaleW wrote:
Matt got together a small group to try a bunch of midrange 2006
Bordeaux last night. None of us had bought much, so most of the wines
came as a group buy, with Matt doing the heavy lifting (literally and
figuratively). Public did a nice job with stems, decanters and
service, and the food was quite good. My choices (fried oysters in
shiso leaf, and a oxtail/snail ravioli) weren't the most Bordeaux
friendly, but I was in a whatthehell mood.


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *³la
Perrieres² Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


On to the reds (non-blind)


2006 Ch. La Vieille Cure (Fronsac)
Interesting nose of toffee and red fruit, but monolithic and closed on
palate. Tight and tannic, nothing to see here at the moment. Might
turn out nice, but for now B-/C+


2006 Ch. d¹Aiguilhe (Cotes de Castillon)
Easily the value of the night for current drinking. Lush, red plums
and cocoa, drinking well, very tasty. B+


2006 Ch. Cantemerle (Haut Medoc)
Blast of brett at first, then it blows off partially. Plums, smoke,
medium length. B


2006 Ch. La Lagune (Haut Medoc)
Good, also just a hint of brett . Nice red fruit, woodsmoke, a bit of
mineral. Could be worth checking out in Jan sales. B+/A-


2006 Ch. Malescot St. Exupery (Margaux)
Really lovely Margaux nose of berries and sandalwood, but I found a
bit flat and lifeless on palate. Very low acid. Others enjoyed more.
B-


2006 Ch. Haut Bailly *(Pessac-Leognan)
Wow, I was really surprised at this, oaky and unintegrated. I'm
usually a fan of Haut Bailly, but I didn't like this. Maybe time will
help. B-/C+


2006 Ch. Lynch Bages (Pauillac)
I was just as surprised at this, as other than the 1996 I haven't
really loved a Lynch since the 1989. But this was my favorite of the
evening, some oak but much more in touch with the fruit, the oak
cutting more of a cedary swath than a vanilla one. Cassis, herbs,
cedar. Tannic but they seem fine and manageable. A-


2006 Ch. Grand Puy Lacoste (Pauillac)
Overall nice, but there's a funny note I can't put my finger on in
nose-seaweed? *Other than that, nice good Bordeaux, black fruits, ripe
tannins. B/B+


2006 Ch. Leoville Barton
Showing a lot of wood at first, but as black fruit deepens it becomes
more integrated. Big, blackcurrants, surprising oak but I think it'll
integrate. B+


2006 Ch. Pontet Canet (Pauillac)
Lush, modern, forward, big. I think a lot of people would love this.
B


2006 Ch. Duhart Milon (Pauillac)
I apparently stopped making notes here, but found this simple and
short. Wrote C+/B-


1988 Ch. Rieussec (from 375)
no notes but I know I found it lovely and full, B+


Fun night with nice group. Thanks to Matt for organizing. No true
stunners, but if good post holiday sales I might seriously consider
Lagune, Barton, Lynch, GPL, etc. Aiguilhe is probably a decent deal
already


Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an
excellent*wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I
wouldn't*drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I
offer no*promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of
consistency.**


I recently went to a tasting of 2006 Bordeaux wines and as a rule I
found them not that interesting. I think this may end up being a weak
vintage.


While there were some wines I stylistically didn't like, I think my
overall impression is good though not great vintage. Of course small
sample.
I might be a buyer if there are some good price reductions.
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Old 17-12-2009, 05:41 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 16, 3:48*pm, Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:
I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


Dale,
* *I have no experience with Pinot Gouges, but does it have a typical
Pinot Blanc flavor profile? *FWIW, I find PB pretty easy to identify,
with its aromatic, white floral and mineral nose.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


I don't really have enough PB experience to say, though this did have
some floral and mineral notes.


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Old 17-12-2009, 06:25 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-

*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up at
http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir (glossary that
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).

"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."

Andy
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Old 17-12-2009, 07:22 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee wrote:
On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:



I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossary that
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).

"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."


There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc de Vougeot 1973 from D.
L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D.
Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
vineyards and producers better.
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Old 17-12-2009, 01:15 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:
On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee wrote:





On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).


"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."


There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D.
L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D.
Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
vineyards and producers better.


I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
Pinot Gris interspersed.
Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
(though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
closeout)
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Old 17-12-2009, 03:40 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 17, 7:15*am, DaleW wrote:
On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:



On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee wrote:


On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).


"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."


There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D.
L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D.
Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
vineyards and producers better.


I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
Pinot Gris interspersed.
Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
(though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
closeout)


I have not done research from trusted sources to know exactly which
northern Burgundy white wines are made from mutations of red Pinot
Noir and which are made from Chardonnay. Perhaps one of Clive Coates'
books will have the information. I tend to agree with you that some of
these wines tend to be priced high due to the curiosity factor. Also I
tasted the wines mentioned many years ago, so more recent vintages
could be better or worse, depending on changes at the various estates.
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Old 17-12-2009, 09:26 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 17, 9:40*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:
On Dec 17, 7:15*am, DaleW wrote:



On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:


On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee wrote:


On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).


"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."


There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D.
L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D.
Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
vineyards and producers better.


I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
Pinot Gris interspersed.
Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
(though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
closeout)


I have not done research from trusted sources to know exactly which
northern Burgundy white wines are made from mutations of red Pinot
Noir and which are made from Chardonnay. Perhaps one of Clive Coates'
books will have the information. I tend to agree with you that some of
these wines tend to be priced high due to the curiosity factor. Also I
tasted the wines mentioned many years ago, so more recent vintages
could be better or worse, depending on changes at the various estates.


I have looked in Cote d'Or by Clive Coates published in 1997, so some
of the information there may be a bit out of date.Coates on p 144
states that in Nuits-Saint-Georges some white wines are produced, both
village and premier cru.Separate bottling of white wine here is
relatively new, and quantities are very small. However it has always
been the practice until relatively recently to plant a few white grape
vines with the red to soften the red wines a bit. Before WW II, Henri
Gouges discovered mutation of Pinot Noir that produced white grapes in
his vineyard. He propagated them from cuttings. He first had enough
grapes to make a small amount of wine in 1947. Others obtained
cuttings from him. Coates calls this mutation Pinot Gouges. Other
producers make white wine from Chardonnay, Pinot Beurot, or from a
mixture of all three. At the time of the book, there were only about
135000 bottles of the white per year. Coates finds the wine
intriguing. He does not rate it with the quality of white Corton or
Meursault and says it comes in various styles. He says that in most
cases it is better in 4 to 8 years rather than at 10+.

The Morey-Saint-Denis appellation applies to white as well as red
wines. Production of white was only 80 hl in 1993 from under 3 ha..
Les Monts Lauisants blanc from Ponsot can/or could be found from time
to time on the export market. On page 575, Coates describes the white
Les Monts-Luisants, and this is rather complicated. The vineyard has
red Pinot Noir grapes as well. There used to be some mutated Pinot
Noir giving white grapes (Pinot Gouges) but these vines were removed.
There also used to be quite a bit of very old Aligote vines dating
from 1911. At the time Coates wrote the book, about 50% each of the
old Aligote and Chardonnay were being used.

De Vogue has a small plot of Chardonnay as well as Pinot Noir in his
Musigny holdings. In the past a small amount of Chardonnay often was
used in making red Musigny. In more recent times a tiny amount of the
Chardonnay alone is bottled as Musigny Blanc. This was nearly
impossible to find for a while when new plantings of Chardonnay were
made. It tends to be a very full wine, nothing like Corton-Charlemagne
or Montrachet. If you do find a bottle, the price is likely to be very
high.

The grand cru in Vougeot is Clos de Vougeot. One could easily be
misled by labels, but the white wine often called Clos de Vougeot
blanc is nothing of the sort and rather comes from the premier cru
vineyard Le Clos Blanc (only 3.05 ha.). The grape likely is
Chardonnay, but I did not find proof of this in Coates' book.

I guess that one should never expect anything to be simple in
Burgundy. Does the region produce many good lawyers as well as good
wine?



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 17-12-2009, 10:40 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

cwdjrxyz wrote on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:26:31 -0800 (PST):

I guess that one should never expect anything to be simple in
Burgundy. Does the region produce many good lawyers as well as good
wine?


So how do you stop a lawyer from drowning?

"Shoot him before he hits the water."



Martha Kearns, Irish Independent 2/17/04




--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
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Old 19-12-2009, 10:07 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

DaleW wrote in news:c08daf32-dc00-4e2c-b74d-cd407d39f637
@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

I recently went to a tasting of 2006 Bordeaux wines and as a rule I
found them not that interesting. I think this may end up being a weak
vintage.


While there were some wines I stylistically didn't like, I think my
overall impression is good though not great vintage. Of course small
sample.
I might be a buyer if there are some good price reductions.


Interesting. I tasted over 300 wines en primeur and thought that 2006 was
actually excellent in Pomerol with Saint Emilion being more irregular.

It might become an interesting and under the radar vintage for Pomerol
specially. Sort of a 2001 which gave very good wines that were not hunted
by hordes of point drinkers.

s.
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Old 20-12-2009, 10:48 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 19, 5:07*am, santiago wrote:
DaleW wrote in news:c08daf32-dc00-4e2c-b74d-cd407d39f637
@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:



I recently went to a tasting of 2006 Bordeaux wines and as a rule I
found them not that interesting. I think this may end up being a weak
vintage.


While there were some wines I stylistically didn't like, I think my
overall impression is good though not great vintage. Of course small
sample.
I might be a buyer if there are some good price reductions.


Interesting. I tasted over 300 wines en primeur and thought that 2006 was
actually excellent in Pomerol with Saint Emilion being more irregular.

It might become an interesting and under the radar vintage for Pomerol
specially. Sort of a 2001 which gave very good wines that were not hunted
by hordes of point drinkers.

s.


I hope to taste some Pomerols! As noted, I think there's a lot of Bdx
clogging pipelines, and my prediction is a LOT of sales/dumping after
holiday season. Of course, my market predictions are not usually
especially accurate!
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Old 20-12-2009, 10:49 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default TN: 6 guys taste 11 2006 Bordeaux

On Dec 17, 4:26*pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:
On Dec 17, 9:40*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:





On Dec 17, 7:15*am, DaleW wrote:


On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:


On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee wrote:


On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW wrote:


I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
saved some for my oysters. B+/A-


*
I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
used to be accessible through Strat's Place).


"An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
styles that peak in about four to eight years."


There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D..
L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D..
Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
vineyards and producers better.


I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
Pinot Gris interspersed.
Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
(though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
closeout)


I have not done research from trusted sources to know exactly which
northern Burgundy white wines are made from mutations of red Pinot
Noir and which are made from Chardonnay. Perhaps one of Clive Coates'
books will have the information. I tend to agree with you that some of
these wines tend to be priced high due to the curiosity factor. Also I
tasted the wines mentioned many years ago, so more recent vintages
could be better or worse, depending on changes at the various estates.


I have looked in Cote d'Or by Clive Coates published in 1997, so some
of the information there may be a bit out of date.Coates on p 144
states that in Nuits-Saint-Georges some white wines are produced, both
village and premier cru.Separate bottling of white wine here is
relatively new, and quantities are very small. However it has always
been the practice until relatively recently to plant a few white grape
vines with the red to soften the red wines a bit. Before WW II, Henri
Gouges discovered mutation of Pinot Noir that produced white grapes in
his vineyard. He propagated them from cuttings. He first had enough
grapes to make a small amount of wine in 1947. Others obtained
cuttings from him. Coates calls this mutation Pinot Gouges. Other
producers make white wine from Chardonnay, Pinot Beurot, or from a
mixture of all three. At the time of the book, there were only about
135000 bottles of the white per year. Coates finds the wine
intriguing. He does not rate it with the quality of white Corton or
Meursault and says it comes in various styles. He says that in most
cases it is better in 4 to 8 years rather than at 10+.

The Morey-Saint-Denis appellation applies to white as well as red
wines. Production of white was only 80 hl in 1993 from under 3 ha..
Les Monts Lauisants blanc from Ponsot can/or could be found from time
to time on the export market. On page 575, Coates describes the white
Les Monts-Luisants, and this is rather complicated. The vineyard has
red Pinot Noir grapes as well. There used to be some mutated Pinot
Noir giving white grapes (Pinot Gouges) but these vines were removed.
There also used to be quite a bit of very old Aligote vines dating
from 1911. At the time Coates wrote the book, about 50% each of the
old Aligote and Chardonnay were being used.

De Vogue has a small plot of Chardonnay as well as Pinot Noir in his
Musigny holdings. In the past a small amount of Chardonnay often was
used in making red Musigny. In more recent times a tiny amount of the
Chardonnay alone is bottled as Musigny Blanc. This was nearly
impossible to find for a while when new plantings of Chardonnay were
made. It tends to be a very full wine, nothing like Corton-Charlemagne
or Montrachet. If you do find a bottle, the price is likely to be very
high.

The grand cru in Vougeot is Clos de Vougeot. One could easily be
misled by labels, but the white wine often called Clos de Vougeot
blanc is nothing of the sort and rather comes from the *premier cru
vineyard Le Clos Blanc (only 3.05 ha.). The grape likely is
Chardonnay, but I did not find proof of this in Coates' book.

I guess that one should never expect anything to be simple in
Burgundy. Does the region produce many good lawyers as well as good
wine?


Thanks for the research, good stuff!
I think Vogue still bottles the white, but calls it Bourgogne Blanc
right now because the vines are young after replanting.


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