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Old 12-12-2009, 02:55 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?

Thanks.
Dee Dee



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Old 12-12-2009, 03:03 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:

I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
here in U.S.?


I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
opine upon how accurate is what I have read.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 12-12-2009, 04:26 PM posted to alt.food.wine
JT JT is offline
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo



"James Silverton" wrote in message
...
Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:

I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here
in U.S.?


I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have a
common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts opine
upon how accurate is what I have read.

Zinfandel is a variety of red grape planted in over 10 percent of
California vineyards.[1] DNA fingerprinting revealed that it is
genetically equivalent to the Croatian grape Crljenak Kastelanski, and
also the Primitivo variety traditionally grown in the "heel" of Italy,
where it was introduced in the 1700s. The grape found its way to the
United States in the mid-19th century, and became known by variations of
the name "Zinfandel", a name of uncertain origin.


The grapes typically produce a robust red wine, although a semi-sweet rosé
(blush-style) wine called White Zinfandel has six times the sales of the red
wine in the United States.[2] The grape's high sugar content can be
fermented into levels of alcohol exceeding 15 percent.[3]

The taste of the red wine depends on the ripeness of the grapes from which
it is made. Red berry fruits like raspberry predominate in wines from cooler
areas,[4] whereas blackberry, anise and pepper notes are more common in
wines made in warmer areas[4] and in wines made from the earlier-ripening
Primitivo clone.

FWIW. we were in Puglia last year and drank some splendid Primitivo. Also UK
only, Tesco have Ogio Primitivo 2008 from Puglia at £4,59. A very good
everyday drinking red.

JT




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Old 12-12-2009, 04:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo


"Dee Dovey" skrev i melding
...
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?

Hard to say - the winemaking style is different and therefore you can't say
it is only the grape that is the reason for the preference.
It would be interesting to compare Californian Zins and Californian
Primitivos if there are any?

Anders


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Old 12-12-2009, 10:38 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo


"Anders Tørneskog" wrote in message
...

"Dee Dovey" skrev i melding
...
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?

Hard to say - the winemaking style is different and therefore you can't
say it is only the grape that is the reason for the preference.
It would be interesting to compare Californian Zins and Californian
Primitivos if there are any?

Anders


Yes, interesting.
Here is a site in California that lists their grapes for sale, zinfandels
and primitivos, on two different pages.
http://www.spinettafamilyvineyards.c...zinfandel.html
http://www.spinettafamilyvineyards.c...primitivo.html

Wonder if they sell all the grapes just to the U.S. for U.S. labeled
"zinfandel."
Dee Dee




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Old 13-12-2009, 11:14 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

James Silverton wrote:
Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:

I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
here in U.S.?


I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
opine upon how accurate is what I have read.


I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the Zinfandel
and Primitivo are the same variety - in the sense that they have the
same sexual parents. The relationship between each other and the
Croatian grape is one of genetic mutation. I am not sure if that makes
the Croatian grape an ancestor or not.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
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Old 13-12-2009, 12:08 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

Steve Slatcher wrote:

James Silverton wrote:


Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:


I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching
for it here in U.S.?


I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and
Primitivo have a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll
have to let experts opine upon how accurate is what I have
read.


I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the
Zinfandel and Primitivo are the same variety - in the sense
that they have the same sexual parents. The relationship
between each other and the Croatian grape is one of genetic
mutation. I am not sure if that makes the Croatian grape an
ancestor or not.


And, while we're at it, that's the name of the Croation grape
variety: Crljenak Kastelanski (diacritic ommitted: the first
s carries a ^ upside-down, apparently called "caron").

M.
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Old 13-12-2009, 03:27 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

On Dec 13, 6:14�am, Steve Slatcher wrote:
James Silverton wrote:
Dee �wrote �on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:


I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
preferring Primitivo from Italy, to �Zinfandel from California
and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
here in U.S.?


I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
opine upon how accurate is what I have read.


I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the Zinfandel
and Primitivo are the same variety �- in the sense that they have the
same sexual parents. �The relationship between each other and the
Croatian grape is one of genetic mutation. �I am not sure if that makes
the Croatian grape an ancestor or not.

--
Steve Slatcherhttp://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher


http://wine.appellationamerica.com/g...Zinfandel.html

This is a pretty good snapshot guide to the relationship.
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Old 13-12-2009, 05:41 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo

Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?


Dee,
Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net
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Old 13-12-2009, 07:32 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...
Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?


Dee,
Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.

Mark Lipton


Thanks, Mark for a good explanation for me.
As I actually prefer Italian wines, it's not going to be hard for me to pass
up CA zinfandels and look for more primitivos.
Dee Dee





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Old 13-12-2009, 08:24 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...
Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?


Dee,
Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.

Earlier this year I drank a couple of bottles of Primitivo, from Sicily, and
the nose was strongly metallic. This, apparently, is typical of the
variety. Has anyone here experienced that in a Zin?
Graham


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Old 15-12-2009, 03:19 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Zinfandel or Primitivo


"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
Dee Dovey wrote:
"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...
Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in
U.S.?
Dee,
Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.

Mark Lipton


Thanks, Mark for a good explanation for me.
As I actually prefer Italian wines, it's not going to be hard for me to
pass up CA zinfandels and look for more primitivos.
Dee Dee


To be honest, and despite being italian, I have never tasted a Primitivo
that impressed me, whereas my small experience of Zinfandel shows promise
(Ridge mainly).

--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail




Thanks, Mike, I'll give Ridge a try as well.
Dee Dee




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