I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?

Thanks.
Dee Dee

Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:

> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
> preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
> and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
> here in U.S.?

I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
opine upon how accurate is what I have read.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:
>
>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
>> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
>> and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here
>> in U.S.?
>
> I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have a
> common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts opine
> upon how accurate is what I have read.
>
> Zinfandel is a variety of red grape planted in over 10 percent of
> California vineyards.[1] DNA fingerprinting revealed that it is
> genetically equivalent to the Croatian grape Crljenak Kastelanski, and
> also the Primitivo variety traditionally grown in the "heel" of Italy,
> where it was introduced in the 1700s. The grape found its way to the
> United States in the mid-19th century, and became known by variations of
> the name "Zinfandel", a name of uncertain origin.

The grapes typically produce a robust red wine, although a semi-sweet rosé
(blush-style) wine called White Zinfandel has six times the sales of the red
wine in the United States.[2] The grape's high sugar content can be
fermented into levels of alcohol exceeding 15 percent.[3]

The taste of the red wine depends on the ripeness of the grapes from which
it is made. Red berry fruits like raspberry predominate in wines from cooler
areas,[4] whereas blackberry, anise and pepper notes are more common in
wines made in warmer areas[4] and in wines made from the earlier-ripening
Primitivo clone.

FWIW. we were in Puglia last year and drank some splendid Primitivo. Also UK
only, Tesco have Ogio Primitivo 2008 from Puglia at £4,59. A very good
everyday drinking red.

JT

"Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
...
> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?
>
Hard to say - the winemaking style is different and therefore you can't say
it is only the grape that is the reason for the preference.
It would be interesting to compare Californian Zins and Californian
Primitivos if there are any?

Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Dovey" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
>> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
>> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?
>>
> Hard to say - the winemaking style is different and therefore you can't
> say it is only the grape that is the reason for the preference.
> It would be interesting to compare Californian Zins and Californian
> Primitivos if there are any?
>
> Anders
>

Yes, interesting.
Here is a site in California that lists their grapes for sale, zinfandels
and primitivos, on two different pages.
http://www.spinettafamilyvineyards.c...zinfandel.html
http://www.spinettafamilyvineyards.c...primitivo.html

Wonder if they sell all the grapes just to the U.S. for U.S. labeled
"zinfandel."
Dee Dee

James Silverton wrote:
> Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:
>
>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
>> preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
>> and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
>> here in U.S.?
>
> I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
> a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
> opine upon how accurate is what I have read.

I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the Zinfandel
and Primitivo are the same variety - in the sense that they have the
same sexual parents. The relationship between each other and the
Croatian grape is one of genetic mutation. I am not sure if that makes
the Croatian grape an ancestor or not.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> James Silverton wrote:

>> Dee wrote on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:

>>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
>>> preferring Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California
>>> and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching
>>> for it here in U.S.?

>> I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and
>> Primitivo have a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll
>> have to let experts opine upon how accurate is what I have
>> read.

> I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the
> Zinfandel and Primitivo are the same variety - in the sense
> that they have the same sexual parents. The relationship
> between each other and the Croatian grape is one of genetic
> mutation. I am not sure if that makes the Croatian grape an
> ancestor or not.

And, while we're at it, that's the name of the Croation grape
variety: Crljenak Kastelanski (diacritic ommitted: the first
s carries a ^ upside-down, apparently called "caron").

M.

On Dec 13, 6:14�am, Steve Slatcher > wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
> > Dee �wrote �on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:55:09 -0500:
>
> >> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
> >> preferring Primitivo from Italy, to �Zinfandel from California
> >> and why? If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it
> >> here in U.S.?
>
> > I'm not a great admirer of Zinfandel but I believe it and Primitivo have
> > a common ancestor in some Croatian variety. I'll have to let experts
> > opine upon how accurate is what I have read.
>
> I am not an expert but IIRC those who are experts say that the Zinfandel
> and Primitivo are the same variety �- in the sense that they have the
> same sexual parents. �The relationship between each other and the
> Croatian grape is one of genetic mutation. �I am not sure if that makes
> the Croatian grape an ancestor or not.
>
> --
> Steve Slatcherhttp://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

http://wine.appellationamerica.com/g...Zinfandel.html

This is a pretty good snapshot guide to the relationship.

Dee Dovey wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?

Dee,
Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Dovey wrote:
>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
>> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
>> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?
>
> Dee,
> Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
> while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
> pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
> instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
> Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
> different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
> exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
> Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.
>
> Mark Lipton
>

Thanks, Mark for a good explanation for me.
As I actually prefer Italian wines, it's not going to be hard for me to pass
up CA zinfandels and look for more primitivos.
Dee Dee

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Dovey wrote:
>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about preferring
>> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
>> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in U.S.?
>
> Dee,
> Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
> while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
> pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
> instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
> Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
> different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
> exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
> Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.
>
Earlier this year I drank a couple of bottles of Primitivo, from Sicily, and
the nose was strongly metallic. This, apparently, is typical of the
variety. Has anyone here experienced that in a Zin?
Graham

"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Dovey wrote:
>> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Dee Dovey wrote:
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone here can give me their thoughts about
>>>> preferring
>>>> Primitivo from Italy, to Zinfandel from California and why?
>>>> If you prefer Primitivo, would it be worth searching for it here in
>>>> U.S.?
>>> Dee,
>>> Having tasted many a Zinfandel and a few Primitivos, I can say that,
>>> while there is some resemblance, the differences in the two wines are
>>> pretty striking. I doubt that many people given a Primitivo would
>>> instantly think "Zinfandel." OTOH, some CA growers have planted
>>> Primitivo and made wine from it, and it does produce a slightly
>>> different wine, but not nearly as pronounced as the differences
>>> exhibited by Italian Primitivos. So, why the differences? Winemaking?
>>> Sure. Terroir? Almost certainly.
>>>
>>> Mark Lipton
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Mark for a good explanation for me.
>> As I actually prefer Italian wines, it's not going to be hard for me to
>> pass up CA zinfandels and look for more primitivos.
>> Dee Dee
>
> To be honest, and despite being italian, I have never tasted a Primitivo
> that impressed me, whereas my small experience of Zinfandel shows promise
> (Ridge mainly).
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail



Thanks, Mike, I'll give Ridge a try as well.
Dee Dee