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Old 18-12-2009, 03:08 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam of
rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.


Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?

JB



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Old 18-12-2009, 07:27 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Ronin wrote:
However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam
of rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.


Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?


By seam[1] I mean the same level of limestone as it was deposited.
After deposition, the seam distorted. It now dips under the English
Channel, and it breaks through to the surface in Champagne and Southern
England to form the South Downs. It will not be identical rock, as it
is obviously in 2 different places, but it was laid down at the same
time and by more or less the same process.

As for support, you will find quite a few references to it being
(nearly) the same rock on the Web. I recently saw a section diagram
showing the limestone layer as I described it above, but unfortunately I
cannot remember where. I must admit I have not examined the geological
basis for the claim, but I see no reason to doubt it.

I know "seam" is used for coal, but maybe I misused it in applying to
limestone.

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Old 18-12-2009, 07:32 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Mike Tommasi wrote:
Ronin wrote:
However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam
of rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.


Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?


Two tectonic plates walked into a bar. They got smashed.

Steve are you thinking about Avalonia?


After a quick Wikipedia check on Avalonia I don't think so, Mike.

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Old 18-12-2009, 08:09 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Steve Slatcher wrote:
Ronin wrote:
However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam
of rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.


Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?


By seam[1] I mean the same level of limestone as it was deposited. After
deposition, the seam distorted. It now dips under the English Channel,
and it breaks through to the surface in Champagne and Southern England
to form the South Downs. It will not be identical rock, as it is
obviously in 2 different places, but it was laid down at the same time
and by more or less the same process.

As for support, you will find quite a few references to it being
(nearly) the same rock on the Web. I recently saw a section diagram
showing the limestone layer as I described it above, but unfortunately I
cannot remember where. I must admit I have not examined the geological
basis for the claim, but I see no reason to doubt it.

I know "seam" is used for coal, but maybe I misused it in applying to
limestone.


Er, sorry. I meant chalk of course, not limestone. And the geological
term for my "dip" is syncline. And "seam" is stratum, or layer. That's
what comes from posting as soon as you wake up!

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Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
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Old 18-12-2009, 04:39 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Steve Slatcher wrote:

Er, sorry. I meant chalk of course, not limestone. And the geological
term for my "dip" is syncline. And "seam" is stratum, or layer. That's
what comes from posting as soon as you wake up!


No problem, Steve. You're better off than posting when you're asleep :P

Mark Lipton

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Old 18-12-2009, 11:26 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends


"Steve Slatcher" wrote in message
...
Ronin wrote:
However, it is nice to see that our terroir (actually the same seam of
rock that goes through Champagne) is getting recognition.


Could you please expand on that? Provide support? Define seam?


By seam[1] I mean the same level of limestone as it was deposited. After
deposition, the seam distorted. It now dips under the English Channel,
and it breaks through to the surface in Champagne and Southern England to
form the South Downs. It will not be identical rock, as it is obviously
in 2 different places, but it was laid down at the same time and by more
or less the same process.

Actually, it is pretty close to being uniform.
Graham


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Old 21-12-2009, 02:39 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends


"Steve Slatcher" wrote in message
...
Anders TÝrneskog wrote:
"Dee Dovey" skrev i melding
...
I can't figure this out.

If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he
uses in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?

Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may
be modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the
official blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often
different from these in warm ones.

The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and
thus do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in
general.

A simplified response, this, I think :-)


Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux

In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
adjacent rows may well be different.

--
Steve Slatcher



When you say, "Here, different varieties ......"
Where is "here"?
Thanks,
Dee Dee


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Old 21-12-2009, 02:43 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends


"Bi!!" wrote in message
...
On Dec 12, 9:14?am, "Dee Dovey" wrote:
I can't figure this out.

If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he uses
in
his wine that he labels that is from his winery?

Thanks a lot for any who can understand my question as phrased, and
answer.

Dee Dee


I think it's important to remember that "terroir" is more than soil.
It's the entire enviorment of the vineyard including the aspect of the
vines in relation to the sun, the drainage and humidity, the relative
temperatures of the air and the soil throughout the months, weeks,
days, hours, etc.


Thanks, Bill. Yes, I do realize that.
I appreciate your posting.
Dee Dee


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Old 21-12-2009, 07:00 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Dee Dovey wrote:
"Steve Slatcher" wrote in message
...
Anders TÝrneskog wrote:
"Dee Dovey" skrev i melding
...
I can't figure this out.

If a Bordeaux blend is made up of several grapes, and terroir is so
important, does a winery that blends several grapes also own several
terroirs (plots of land) where he grows the different grapes that he
uses in his wine that he labels that is from his winery?

Good question. The chateaux of Bordeaux generally comprise a contiguous
plot of land which is planted with a variety of grapes. The proportion
within a given plot depends on the aptitude of the land and the decided
profile for the winery - traditions that often are centuries old but may
be modified over time. Furthermore, the grapes actually used in the
official blend depend on the vintage - the blends in cold years are often
different from these in warm ones.

The cheaper Bordeaux wines may well be sourced from different plots and
thus do not display much terroir other than that of Bordeaux itself in
general.

A simplified response, this, I think :-)

Simple, but correct as far as I know for Bordeaux

In other places though, occasionally you get "field blends". Here,
different varieties are grown in the same vineyard. If they are old
vineyards, the varieties may be very well mixed, and the owner may not
even know or care what the viarieties are. In more recently planted
vineyards for field blends, each row will contain only one variety, but
adjacent rows may well be different.

--
Steve Slatcher



When you say, "Here, different varieties ......"
Where is "here"?


It is not common these days.

I recently heard that they still exist in Portugal - for the many
varieties that go into Port for example, and table wines now.

In Alscace, Marcel Deiss is well-known for keeping the idea alive as a
positive thing.

I haven't read it myself yet, but this article may be of interest:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...IGNPKKE691.DTL

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
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Old 21-12-2009, 08:46 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

Steve Slatcher wrote:

[Field blends]

It is not common these days.

I recently heard that they still exist in Portugal - for the
many varieties that go into Port for example, and table wines
now.


There has always been "Gemischter Satz" (= field blend) in Vienna,
which very recently has grown extremely popular and has even been
recognized as a "Presidio" product by Slow Food. (Not that I'd
know what a "presidio product" might be, but everybody seems to
be quite proud about it.)

M.


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Old 22-12-2009, 08:49 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Terroir and blends

On 2009-12-18 00:09:50 -0800, Steve Slatcher said:


By seam[1] I mean the same level of limestone as it was deposited.
After deposition, the seam distorted. It now dips under the English
Channel, and it breaks through to the surface in Champagne and Southern
England to form the South Downs. It will not be identical rock, as it
is obviously in 2 different places, but it was laid down at the same
time and by more or less the same process.

As for support, you will find quite a few references to it being
(nearly) the same rock on the Web. I recently saw a section diagram
showing the limestone layer as I described it above, but unfortunately
I cannot remember where. I must admit I have not examined the
geological basis for the claim, but I see no reason to doubt it.

I know "seam" is used for coal, but maybe I misused it in applying to
limestone.


Er, sorry. I meant chalk of course, not limestone. And the geological
term for my "dip" is syncline. And "seam" is stratum, or layer. That's
what comes from posting as soon as you wake up!


Thanks.... Amazing what you can learn on this chat. I asked about
"seam" as here in the far western US, "seam" tended to be used for a
dike or some formation which ran across layers of laid rock - as in a
seam of gold ore...



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