It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

--
=================================================
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Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
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=================================================

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:50:05 GMT, Leo Bueno
> wrote:

>
>It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
>necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
>Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
>shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
>attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

Late harvest can be botrytis, in varying degrees. Muller's 89 Auslese
has strong botrytis.

You are askng many questions, and we dont mind answering if we can,
but you give the impression of making others do your work, nit unlike
some pas notable posters.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:50:05 GMT, Leo Bueno
> wrote:

>
>It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
>necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
>Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
>shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
>attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

Late harvest can be botrytis, in varying degrees. Muller's 89 Auslese
has strong botrytis.

You are askng many questions, and we dont mind answering if we can,
but you give the impression of making others do your work, nit unlike
some pas notable posters.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:50:05 GMT, Leo Bueno
> wrote:

>
>It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
>necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
>Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
>shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
>attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

The links below might help, at least for LH wines made in the USA, if
you can make it through all the bureaucratese:

http://www.ttb.gov/alcohol/info/revrule/rules/82-4.htm
http://www.ttb.gov/alcohol/info/revrule/rules/78-4.htm

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

Leo Bueno wrote:

> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

No, late harvest means just that: grapes harvested somewhere on the path
to becoming raisins (in the case of Recioto, perhaps all the way there).
It is certainly possible that they become botrytized, but that is a
separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
experience had any botrytis character.

Mark Lipton

I have seen photos of botrytized red grapes, so the bug does not seem
to discriminate on the basis of color.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:57:36 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Leo Bueno wrote:
>
>> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
>> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
>> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
>> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
>> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.
>
>No, late harvest means just that: grapes harvested somewhere on the path
>to becoming raisins (in the case of Recioto, perhaps all the way there).
> It is certainly possible that they become botrytized, but that is a
>separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
>experience had any botrytis character.
>
>Mark Lipton

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

I have seen photos of botrytized red grapes, so the bug does not seem
to discriminate on the basis of color.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:57:36 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Leo Bueno wrote:
>
>> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
>> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
>> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
>> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
>> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.
>
>No, late harvest means just that: grapes harvested somewhere on the path
>to becoming raisins (in the case of Recioto, perhaps all the way there).
> It is certainly possible that they become botrytized, but that is a
>separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
>experience had any botrytis character.
>
>Mark Lipton

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,

le/on Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:58:40 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:57:36 -0500, Mark Lipton >
>wrote:
>>separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
>>experience had any botrytis character.
>
>I have seen photos of botrytized red grapes, so the bug does not seem
>to discriminate on the basis of color.
>

Fungus. Sorry to nit pick, but there's a host of difference.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Leo Bueno > wrote in message >. ..
> I have seen photos of botrytized red grapes, so the bug does not seem
> to discriminate on the basis of color.
>
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:57:36 -0500, Mark Lipton >
> wrote:
>
> >Leo Bueno wrote:
> >
> >> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> >> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> >> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> >> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> >> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.
> >
> >No, late harvest means just that: grapes harvested somewhere on the path
> >to becoming raisins (in the case of Recioto, perhaps all the way there).
> > It is certainly possible that they become botrytized, but that is a
> >separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
> >experience had any botrytis character.
> >
> >Mark Lipton

I think it's half a dozen and six of the other.

Botrytis requires moisture; ideally dew or misty mornings, with
beautiful sunny afternoons to make sure that moisture doesn't rot the
grapes (becoming 'grey' rot which is not good).
Red wine regions, eg most of Italy, Spain, Australia are hot. The
grapes usually have thick(er) skins than white grapes because they
have to. Both these factors are not conducive to botrytis. Hence the
variations on the basic passito method (drying grapes by various
methods) is the norm for dessert wines in Italy for example.
There's few places in the world that can *consistently* obtain
Botrytis wines. Even the Loire, Sauternes, Tokaji, have 2, 3 even 4
vintages per decade without significant botrytis. Eg the much 2003
Sauternes might very well be great but will not be characterized by
botrytis.

Peter

Leo Bueno > wrote in message >. ..
> I have seen photos of botrytized red grapes, so the bug does not seem
> to discriminate on the basis of color.
>
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:57:36 -0500, Mark Lipton >
> wrote:
>
> >Leo Bueno wrote:
> >
> >> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> >> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> >> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> >> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> >> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.
> >
> >No, late harvest means just that: grapes harvested somewhere on the path
> >to becoming raisins (in the case of Recioto, perhaps all the way there).
> > It is certainly possible that they become botrytized, but that is a
> >separate issue. For instance, late harvest reds have never in my
> >experience had any botrytis character.
> >
> >Mark Lipton

I think it's half a dozen and six of the other.

Botrytis requires moisture; ideally dew or misty mornings, with
beautiful sunny afternoons to make sure that moisture doesn't rot the
grapes (becoming 'grey' rot which is not good).
Red wine regions, eg most of Italy, Spain, Australia are hot. The
grapes usually have thick(er) skins than white grapes because they
have to. Both these factors are not conducive to botrytis. Hence the
variations on the basic passito method (drying grapes by various
methods) is the norm for dessert wines in Italy for example.
There's few places in the world that can *consistently* obtain
Botrytis wines. Even the Loire, Sauternes, Tokaji, have 2, 3 even 4
vintages per decade without significant botrytis. Eg the much 2003
Sauternes might very well be great but will not be characterized by
botrytis.

Peter

On 13 Sep 2004 08:16:49 -0700, (Peter Muto)
wrote:

>Botrytis requires moisture; ideally dew or misty mornings, with
>beautiful sunny afternoons to make sure that moisture doesn't rot the
>grapes (becoming 'grey' rot which is not good).

Also, remember Botrytis can appear where it is unwanted! It may be a
"feature" of some wines, but many growers would regard it as an
unwelcome disease.

In Germany, "late harvest" would be translated to "Spätlese", and
typically would not have noble rot. Normally you would have to go the
the Auslese levels to get Botrytis.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

"Leo Bueno" > skrev i melding
...
>
> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.
>
Ice wine (made from frozen grapes) is a different animal.
Late harvest needs to be defined in order to answer your question. We are
talking about very ripe grapes, i.e. with a high sugar content. How high
will depend on climate and growing season, so a late harvest German wine is
not the same as a Californian one. Germans classify their wines on basis of
juice sugar content alone and in order to reach the highest levels of
Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese botrytis is *necessary*.
The Auslese is technically late harvest too, most often without botrytis,
but not with a sugar level remotely approaching what can be found in hotter
climates. Thus a sweet Auslese will only have 8% alcohol.

On the other hand, in hot places like California or Greece, the grapes will
easily become superripe and rich in sugar without needing botrytis to boost
the juice.
Anders

Leo Bueno > wrote in message >. ..
> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

As Mark L. already said, "late harvest" means just that and nothing
more; neither Botrytis nor freezing necessarily involved, just very
ripe grapes that might or might not have their sugar content further
enhanced by dehydration.

- Mark W.

Leo Bueno > wrote in message >. ..
> It is not all together clear to me whether late harvest wines are
> necessarily made from grapes attacked by the Botrytis fungus.
> Intuitively, I suspect one can just pick the berries after they have
> shriveled or cracked from freezing but have not necessarily been
> attacked by the fungus. Enlighten me please.

As Mark L. already said, "late harvest" means just that and nothing
more; neither Botrytis nor freezing necessarily involved, just very
ripe grapes that might or might not have their sugar content further
enhanced by dehydration.

- Mark W.