Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
for their respective top wines.

Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:

<http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>

M.

On 19 Aug 2004 08:08:40 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
>for their respective top wines.
>
>Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
><http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>

Death to the cork I say.

Mike
(another bottle ruined last night, a Coteaux du Languedoc by Domaine
Leyris Maizieres, must have had TCA in milligram quantities, never had
a bottle so strongly tainted).

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On 19 Aug 2004 08:08:40 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
>for their respective top wines.
>
>Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
><http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>

Death to the cork I say.

Mike
(another bottle ruined last night, a Coteaux du Languedoc by Domaine
Leyris Maizieres, must have had TCA in milligram quantities, never had
a bottle so strongly tainted).

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Let's hope others follow in their footsteps! As much as I enjoy the sound of
the cork popping out of the bottle, I don't like being disappointed when the
wine is tainted by the cork.

Karen

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Let's hope others follow in their footsteps! As much as I enjoy the sound of
the cork popping out of the bottle, I don't like being disappointed when the
wine is tainted by the cork.

Karen

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a
revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Michael - I can't understand why consumers have accepted
cork-tainted wines for so long with such reatraint. If 5%
plus of milk or eggs or meat was tainted there'd be a public
outcry. Here is review I wrote in June of crown sealed
Seppelt bubbly

Martin


Seppelt Show Sparkling Shiraz 1994 $65.

To be released July 1 under a choice of crown seal (like a
beer bottle top.) or cork. This one had the crown seal.
Great Western, Victoria. Aged eight and a half years on
lees. Medium red, purplish foam. Fragrant lifted nose of
blackberries and spice. Creamy mouthfeel, more berries,
beautifully balanced, long delicious aftertaste. I've tasted
these wines back to the '46 vintage - all brilliant. Cellar
to 2024.

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a
revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Michael - I can't understand why consumers have accepted
cork-tainted wines for so long with such reatraint. If 5%
plus of milk or eggs or meat was tainted there'd be a public
outcry. Here is review I wrote in June of crown sealed
Seppelt bubbly

Martin


Seppelt Show Sparkling Shiraz 1994 $65.

To be released July 1 under a choice of crown seal (like a
beer bottle top.) or cork. This one had the crown seal.
Great Western, Victoria. Aged eight and a half years on
lees. Medium red, purplish foam. Fragrant lifted nose of
blackberries and spice. Creamy mouthfeel, more berries,
beautifully balanced, long delicious aftertaste. I've tasted
these wines back to the '46 vintage - all brilliant. Cellar
to 2024.

Mike Tommasi > wrote in message >. ..
> On 19 Aug 2004 08:08:40 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:
>
> >Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> >for their respective top wines.
> >
> >Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
> >
> ><http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> Death to the cork I say.
>
> Mike
> (another bottle ruined last night, a Coteaux du Languedoc by Domaine
> Leyris Maizieres, must have had TCA in milligram quantities, never had
> a bottle so strongly tainted).
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Amen. The tide is turning strongly against the old cork. I just read a
report in today's Reading Eagle (local paper) that Hogue of Washington
is starting to switch to screw caps for several lines of their wine. I
have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was tainted in
any way.

Dan-O

Mike Tommasi > wrote in message >. ..
> On 19 Aug 2004 08:08:40 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:
>
> >Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> >for their respective top wines.
> >
> >Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
> >
> ><http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> Death to the cork I say.
>
> Mike
> (another bottle ruined last night, a Coteaux du Languedoc by Domaine
> Leyris Maizieres, must have had TCA in milligram quantities, never had
> a bottle so strongly tainted).
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Amen. The tide is turning strongly against the old cork. I just read a
report in today's Reading Eagle (local paper) that Hogue of Washington
is starting to switch to screw caps for several lines of their wine. I
have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was tainted in
any way.

Dan-O

"Karen" > wrote in message
m...
> As much as I enjoy the sound of
> the cork popping out of the bottle, I don't like being disappointed when
the
> wine is tainted by the cork.

FWIW, when I open a bottle of either Champagne or champagne ;^) you will
_never_ hear the cork *pop*. Too frequently that pop is accompanied by a
rush of bubbly wine that ends up going to waste on the floor, table etc., so
I carefully release the excess pressure _slowly_ when withdrawing the cork.
For similar reason, I pour sparkling wines down the side of a tilted glass.
Those bubbles are very expensive, and I want the full experience of them in
my _mouth_ - not propelling the wine to waste over the brim of the glass!

Tom S

"Karen" > wrote in message
m...
> As much as I enjoy the sound of
> the cork popping out of the bottle, I don't like being disappointed when
the
> wine is tainted by the cork.

FWIW, when I open a bottle of either Champagne or champagne ;^) you will
_never_ hear the cork *pop*. Too frequently that pop is accompanied by a
rush of bubbly wine that ends up going to waste on the floor, table etc., so
I carefully release the excess pressure _slowly_ when withdrawing the cork.
For similar reason, I pour sparkling wines down the side of a tilted glass.
Those bubbles are very expensive, and I want the full experience of them in
my _mouth_ - not propelling the wine to waste over the brim of the glass!

Tom S

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin or worse
still this abomination you describe, Michael.

Ron Lel

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
> for their respective top wines.
>
> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>
> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> M.

Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin or worse
still this abomination you describe, Michael.

Ron Lel

Salut/Hi Ron Lel,

le/on Fri, 20 Aug 2004 05:51:52 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>
>"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
>> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary step
>> for their respective top wines.
>>
>> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>>
>> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>>
>> M.
>
>Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin or worse
>still this abomination you describe, Michael.

You mean, you LIKE your wine tasting of wet dog?

Ah well no accounting for tastes. Just remind me when you write TNs.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

>Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin or worse
>still this abomination you describe, Michael.

This represents the reactionary end of the spectrum that says "The new closures
might cause some taint or degradation in the wine"

Of course that ignores the fact that corks undeniably DO cause the same thing,
and with a frequncy that many find unacceptable.

Me. I'm a fence sitter. I'd be delighted to see an end to TCA spoilage (I am
sensitive to it but so much that I can't try a wine that has it - you just
can't possibly evaluate a TCA affected wine). OTOH, I would not want to see an
alternative closure with it's own problems.

Time will tell, I suppose.

>Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin or worse
>still this abomination you describe, Michael.

This represents the reactionary end of the spectrum that says "The new closures
might cause some taint or degradation in the wine"

Of course that ignores the fact that corks undeniably DO cause the same thing,
and with a frequncy that many find unacceptable.

Me. I'm a fence sitter. I'd be delighted to see an end to TCA spoilage (I am
sensitive to it but so much that I can't try a wine that has it - you just
can't possibly evaluate a TCA affected wine). OTOH, I would not want to see an
alternative closure with it's own problems.

Time will tell, I suppose.

Dan the Man wrote:


> Amen. The tide is turning strongly against the old cork. I just read a
> report in today's Reading Eagle (local paper) that Hogue of Washington
> is starting to switch to screw caps for several lines of their wine. I
> have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was tainted in
> any way.

Nor are you likely to, Dan. But, a word to the wise: don't try aging
wines bottled under synth corks. All objective evidence, and my own
personal experience, is that wines sealed with synth corks get tired and
flat quite quickly.

Mark Lipton

Dan the Man wrote:


> Amen. The tide is turning strongly against the old cork. I just read a
> report in today's Reading Eagle (local paper) that Hogue of Washington
> is starting to switch to screw caps for several lines of their wine. I
> have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was tainted in
> any way.

Nor are you likely to, Dan. But, a word to the wise: don't try aging
wines bottled under synth corks. All objective evidence, and my own
personal experience, is that wines sealed with synth corks get tired and
flat quite quickly.

Mark Lipton

(Dan the Man) wrote in message . com>...
>
> Amen. The tide is turning strongly against the old cork. I just read a
> report in today's Reading Eagle (local paper) that Hogue of Washington
> is starting to switch to screw caps for several lines of their wine. I
> have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was tainted in
> any way.
>
> Dan-O

I don't know if your paper gave all of the background on why Hogue is
going to screwcap. The did a study covering several years comparing
natural cork with synthetic stoppers and screwcaps. To summarize,
natural cork occasionally gave corked bottles, synthetics caused
premature oxidation and screwcaps were the big winner. It's true that
with synthetic corks you don't have TCA but trade off in many cases is
that *every* bottle suffers from premature oxidation. That's why I
think synthetic "corks" will prove to be an evolutionary dead end and
that screwcaps and crown caps of various sorts are where we're headed.
Just my two cents' worth.

- Mark W.

My personal preference, based on current knowledge:

Wines I plan to drink within 2 years of release:
Stelvin
Crown
Synthetic
Cork

Wines I plan on drinking 2-10 years from release
Stelvin
Crown
Cork
Synthetic

I'm up in the air as to wines I plan on keeping longer than 10 years, though I
think I'd lean towards Stelvin still.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

My personal preference, based on current knowledge:

Wines I plan to drink within 2 years of release:
Stelvin
Crown
Synthetic
Cork

Wines I plan on drinking 2-10 years from release
Stelvin
Crown
Cork
Synthetic

I'm up in the air as to wines I plan on keeping longer than 10 years, though I
think I'd lean towards Stelvin still.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Mark Lipton > wrote:

>> I have yet to taste a wine stopped with synth cork that was
>> tainted in any way.

> Nor are you likely to, Dan. But, a word to the wise: don't try
> aging wines bottled under synth corks. All objective evidence,
> and my own personal experience, is that wines sealed with synth
> corks get tired and flat quite quickly.

I am just in the middle of a tasting of some 170 Austrian
rieslings and 230 grüner veltliners (all 2003), where we had a
cork-taint-smelling riesling stoppered with a sythetic cork - and
the back-up bottle tasted exactly the same.

M.

"Martin Field" > wrote:

> Michael - I can't understand why consumers have accepted
> cork-tainted wines for so long with such reatraint. If 5% plus
> of milk or eggs or meat was tainted there'd be a public outcry.

Nobody in fact can understand what's happening, and why cork dork
lemmings are so strong . . . ;-)

> Here is review I wrote in June of crown sealed Seppelt bubbly

Thank you very much - still I have no idea what this wine tastes
like, I guess very little makes it to Europe, alas.

M.

"Ron Lel" > wrote:

>> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary
>> step for their respective top wines.
>>
>> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>>
>> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>

> Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin
> or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
poor self explain what this means?

Thank you in advance!

M.

"Ron Lel" > wrote:

>> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary
>> step for their respective top wines.
>>
>> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
>>
>> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>

> Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin
> or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
poor self explain what this means?

Thank you in advance!

M.

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "Ron Lel" > wrote:
>
> >> Chandon Australia and Seppelt decided to take a revolutionary
> >> step for their respective top wines.
> >>
> >> Take a look at the slip label at the first pic:
> >>
> >> <http://www.wineoftheweek.com/murray/0404chandon.html>
>
> > Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under stelvin
> > or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
> poor self explain what this means?
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> M.

Certainly Micheal,
I regard the use of these closures as an abomination. To date I have not
been able to lay my hands on any study which looks at the comparative ageing
qualities of wines bottled under cork in comparison to those bottled under
artificial closures. As I am still opening the last few '45 Bordeaux I have
remaining in my cellar and am enjoying the characters that only are present
in aged wine, I wonder if wines bottled with these new closures will develop
as well.

Sadly I see this trend as a sop to the ever growing numbers who are not
prepared or unwilling to cellar wine for extended periods. As an aside, I
see the same trends in the vast majority of wines made in Australia these
days - wines made for current consumption rather than for putting down.Call
me old fashioned or ultra conservative if you wish, but I find these trends
sad.

I found it interesting on my visit to Austria in January, that a large
number of Austrian winemakers and at least one owner of a large hotel chain
and his beverage manager son agree with the comments I have made above - ask
them Michael.

Cheers
Ron Lel

Ron

"Michael Pronay" asked

> > Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under
> > stelvin or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
> poor self explain what this means?

Hi Michael, Mr. Lel has *very* strong feelings against both Stelvin and
(particularly) Crown caps.

His tone and tenor, and the use of the word "abomination" is emotional in
the extreme.

"Abomination" (Noun)

1. Something horrible: an object of intense disapproval or dislike
2. Something shameful: something that is immoral or disgusting
3. Intense dislike: a feeling of intense dislike or disapproval towards
somebody or something.


If Mr. Lel refuses to buy wine bottled under Stelvin or Crown caps, it will
only serve to deny himself the finer points of excellent wine, and leave
more for those of us with an open mind.

He has a mind like concrete - all mixed up - and permanently set !!

--

st.helier

"Michael Pronay" asked

> > Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under
> > stelvin or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
> poor self explain what this means?

Hi Michael, Mr. Lel has *very* strong feelings against both Stelvin and
(particularly) Crown caps.

His tone and tenor, and the use of the word "abomination" is emotional in
the extreme.

"Abomination" (Noun)

1. Something horrible: an object of intense disapproval or dislike
2. Something shameful: something that is immoral or disgusting
3. Intense dislike: a feeling of intense dislike or disapproval towards
somebody or something.


If Mr. Lel refuses to buy wine bottled under Stelvin or Crown caps, it will
only serve to deny himself the finer points of excellent wine, and leave
more for those of us with an open mind.

He has a mind like concrete - all mixed up - and permanently set !!

--

st.helier

Ron Lel wrote:
> Sadly I see this trend as a sop to the ever growing numbers who are not
> prepared or unwilling to cellar wine for extended periods. As an aside, I
> see the same trends in the vast majority of wines made in Australia these
> days - wines made for current consumption rather than for putting down.Call
> me old fashioned or ultra conservative if you wish, but I find these trends
> sad.

If I remember correctly, some market research about 8 years back showed
that about 82% of all wine sold in Australia was consumed with in 24 hours
of sale. Why would the wineries want to make wines to lay down if their
market wants to consume it immediately.

I for one would never drink an Australian white with out aging it 4 or
5 years. And I do like well aged reds. I am currently working on the
last of 59s and the last of my 2003s.

I just found the most diabolical synthetic cork I have yet seen. It looked
like solid synthetic material with a rubber sleeve around it leaving both
ends exposed. It was in a Peachy Canyon bottle that some one gave me.

I have old wines, a few dating back to the early 1800s. After a certain
age, corks lose the ability to properly seal the wine, no matter how
ideal the temperature and humidity you have. The only thing that saves
having to recork these old wines in many cases is the very heavy coat of
sealing wax that many used in the past rather than lead capsules. The
wax can become very brittle and chip easily after a long time, but can
be patched with new wax if necessary. I have seen corks removed from
such old bottles that were heavy with wine and that shrank to about 1/2
the diameter of the bottle neck when allowed to dry well. From what I
have seen, wines to be kept for a very long time would benefit much more
than wines for early consumption by using a seal that is much more
durable than cork. It is not difficult to find a seal that probably
would last hundreds of years - for example the very soft pure gold foil.
The problem is to find a seal that can be sold at a reasonable price. A
better seal might be justified for the well under 1 percent of wines
capable of very extended aging.

As for wines to be drunk within about 20 years, and probably after a
considerably longer time, some of the commercial seals now available
seem to have been well tested and seem to be adequate. I can do without
cork taint, and I can think of much more interesting things to do than
removing a cork - especially an old one that may be very difficult to
remove whole.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

I have old wines, a few dating back to the early 1800s. After a certain
age, corks lose the ability to properly seal the wine, no matter how
ideal the temperature and humidity you have. The only thing that saves
having to recork these old wines in many cases is the very heavy coat of
sealing wax that many used in the past rather than lead capsules. The
wax can become very brittle and chip easily after a long time, but can
be patched with new wax if necessary. I have seen corks removed from
such old bottles that were heavy with wine and that shrank to about 1/2
the diameter of the bottle neck when allowed to dry well. From what I
have seen, wines to be kept for a very long time would benefit much more
than wines for early consumption by using a seal that is much more
durable than cork. It is not difficult to find a seal that probably
would last hundreds of years - for example the very soft pure gold foil.
The problem is to find a seal that can be sold at a reasonable price. A
better seal might be justified for the well under 1 percent of wines
capable of very extended aging.

As for wines to be drunk within about 20 years, and probably after a
considerably longer time, some of the commercial seals now available
seem to have been well tested and seem to be adequate. I can do without
cork taint, and I can think of much more interesting things to do than
removing a cork - especially an old one that may be very difficult to
remove whole.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

"Ron Lel" wrote

> To date I have not been able to lay my hands on any study
> which looks at the comparative ageing qualities of wines
> bottled under cork in comparison to those bottled under
> artificial closures.

And I doubt that you will. I know that many wineries are doing their own
evaluations - but, for reasons of commercial sensitivity, these would be
kept confidential.

That said, I do know that the Villa Maria Group in New Zealand and Penfolds
Australia have been evaluating their own trials over 10-15 years (with
Stelvin on their age-worthy reds).

Call this a victory for objectivity!

Within the last year, Villa Maria (which incorporates VM, Vidal Estate and
Esk Valley - all highly regarded producers of top quality reds) have decided
to ditch cork altogether, and now bottle even their premium Pinot Noir and
Merlot/Cabernet wines under Stelvin.

They have no concerns as to the age-worthiness of their wines (although I
would be the first to agree that the industry in NZ is still relatively
young and lacks the track record to contemplate cellaring any NZ red beyond
12-15 years)

Whereas you may be worried about any effect of the aging process, I am much
more concerned about TCA contamination - and actively seek Stelvin closures
when making a buying decision.

To me, a far greater abomination is keeping a fine a vintage Champagne or
Riesling for a few years, contemplating excellent drinking - then opening it
to find it completely spoiled.

I once read "The mind is just like a parachute - it only works when it is
open: :-)

--

st.helier

"Ron Lel" wrote

> To date I have not been able to lay my hands on any study
> which looks at the comparative ageing qualities of wines
> bottled under cork in comparison to those bottled under
> artificial closures.

And I doubt that you will. I know that many wineries are doing their own
evaluations - but, for reasons of commercial sensitivity, these would be
kept confidential.

That said, I do know that the Villa Maria Group in New Zealand and Penfolds
Australia have been evaluating their own trials over 10-15 years (with
Stelvin on their age-worthy reds).

Call this a victory for objectivity!

Within the last year, Villa Maria (which incorporates VM, Vidal Estate and
Esk Valley - all highly regarded producers of top quality reds) have decided
to ditch cork altogether, and now bottle even their premium Pinot Noir and
Merlot/Cabernet wines under Stelvin.

They have no concerns as to the age-worthiness of their wines (although I
would be the first to agree that the industry in NZ is still relatively
young and lacks the track record to contemplate cellaring any NZ red beyond
12-15 years)

Whereas you may be worried about any effect of the aging process, I am much
more concerned about TCA contamination - and actively seek Stelvin closures
when making a buying decision.

To me, a far greater abomination is keeping a fine a vintage Champagne or
Riesling for a few years, contemplating excellent drinking - then opening it
to find it completely spoiled.

I once read "The mind is just like a parachute - it only works when it is
open: :-)

--

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote in message
news:1093047425.766946@ftpsrv1...
> "Michael Pronay" asked
>
> > > Nope! Categorically refuse to buy any wine bottled under
> > > stelvin or worse still this abomination you describe, Michael.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Can anyone with a better command of the English language than my
> > poor self explain what this means?
>
> Hi Michael, Mr. Lel has *very* strong feelings against both Stelvin and
> (particularly) Crown caps.
>
> His tone and tenor, and the use of the word "abomination" is emotional in
> the extreme.
>
> "Abomination" (Noun)
>
> 1. Something horrible: an object of intense disapproval or dislike
> 2. Something shameful: something that is immoral or disgusting
> 3. Intense dislike: a feeling of intense dislike or disapproval towards
> somebody or something.
>
>
> If Mr. Lel refuses to buy wine bottled under Stelvin or Crown caps, it
will
> only serve to deny himself the finer points of excellent wine, and leave
> more for those of us with an open mind.
>
> He has a mind like concrete - all mixed up - and permanently set !!
>
> --
>
> st.helier

"He has a mind like concrete - all mixed up - and permanently set !!"

Not at all. It just shows that those who hide behind pseudonyms and make
gratuitous insults know as much about the topic they are talking about as
the man in the moon.

Ron Lel

"Ron Lel" wrote

> those who hide behind pseudonyms and make
> gratuitous insults know as much about the topic
> they are talking about as the man in the moon.


Hmmm - Ron - St.Helier is my name - and no more a pseudonym than Ron Lel.

And do I know much about the topic of Stelvin capsules and their effect of
the aging process? - well, obviously perhaps a little more than you - I
have actually spoken with winemakers on both side of the Tasman who have
been trialing them for many years.

I see you are in Australia - go talk to Penfolds - and get some insight
from their trials going back 15-20 years - with Grange I believe !!!!!!!

You see, you are in the (very) fortunate minority who drinks older
Bordeaux - but I have experienced TCA contamination in a 1976 Ch. Margaux,
and a 1990 J J Prum WS Auslese and a 198? Henscke Mt Edelstone Shiraz - and
also a 1985 Laurent Perrier Grande Siecle Champagne.

I would have accepted a Crown Cap or Stelvin closure on each and every one,
just to have an unspoiled wine to sip and remember.

If you have taken umbrage at my smart-arsed sense of humour, I apologise - I
forgot the smiley :-)

--

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Ron Lel" wrote
>
> > those who hide behind pseudonyms and make
> > gratuitous insults know as much about the topic
> > they are talking about as the man in the moon.
>
>
> Hmmm - Ron - St.Helier is my name - and no more a pseudonym than Ron
Lel.
>
snipped

> If you have taken umbrage at my smart-arsed sense of humour, I apologise -
I
> forgot the smiley :-)
>
> --
>
> st.helier

OK. Accepted. Sorry about the pseudonym comment as well. Actually I do know
a fair bit about the topic as I (we - friends etc), have been looking at and
discussing and debating this for some time. You might be surprised at the
large number of winemakers and those in the industry who agree with me,
however. I have already intimated those to whom I spoke in Austria early
this year. Perhaps when you next come to Oz you should chat to people like
Phil Jones of Bass Phillip as well.

Ron Lel

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Ron Lel" wrote
>
> > those who hide behind pseudonyms and make
> > gratuitous insults know as much about the topic
> > they are talking about as the man in the moon.
>
>
> Hmmm - Ron - St.Helier is my name - and no more a pseudonym than Ron
Lel.
>
snipped

> If you have taken umbrage at my smart-arsed sense of humour, I apologise -
I
> forgot the smiley :-)
>
> --
>
> st.helier

OK. Accepted. Sorry about the pseudonym comment as well. Actually I do know
a fair bit about the topic as I (we - friends etc), have been looking at and
discussing and debating this for some time. You might be surprised at the
large number of winemakers and those in the industry who agree with me,
however. I have already intimated those to whom I spoke in Austria early
this year. Perhaps when you next come to Oz you should chat to people like
Phil Jones of Bass Phillip as well.

Ron Lel

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> But, a word to the wise: don't try aging
> wines bottled under synth corks. All objective evidence, and my own
> personal experience, is that wines sealed with synth corks get tired and
> flat quite quickly.

Hi, Mark -

That's probably due to the SO2 "scalping" effect some of those closures
have. The manufacturers are aware of the problem and are taking steps to
address it.

I have one vintage bottled under the "new, improved" Supremecorq. It went
into the bottle on January 23, 2004 at 55 ppm free SO2. I plan to retest it
soon. I'll post the results.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com

"Ron Lel" > wrote in message
...
> I regard the use of these closures as an abomination. To date I have not
> been able to lay my hands on any study which looks at the comparative
ageing
> qualities of wines bottled under cork in comparison to those bottled under
> artificial closures. As I am still opening the last few '45 Bordeaux I
have
> remaining in my cellar and am enjoying the characters that only are
present
> in aged wine, I wonder if wines bottled with these new closures will
develop
> as well.
>
> Sadly I see this trend as a sop to the ever growing numbers who are not
> prepared or unwilling to cellar wine for extended periods.

You're mixing two different issues there, and injecting a fair amount of
confusion.

The first issue is whether any closure other than natural cork is capable of
both protecting the wine from spoilage within the bottle, while allowing the
slow development (aging) within.

The second issue concerns current buying trends and the industry's response
to them.

As for the first, I have conducted my own evaluation of screwcaps over a 15
year storage period. The wine was a 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon, bottled under
both cork and screwcaps and compared a few years ago. There was practically
no difference between the two bottlings. Also, they had both aged very
nicely.

I won't speak to the latter issue except to say that many wineries are still
producing wines worthy of aging, and I am still buying wines to lay down for
future enjoyment - BUT I'd be much more confident of that enjoyment if they
were sealed with something technologically improved over a chunk of tree
bark!

Tom S

"Ron Lel" > wrote in message
...
> You might be surprised at the
> large number of winemakers and those in the industry who agree with me,
> however.

The wine industry is very resistant to change, both because it involves
taking a risk with a substantial amount of money, as well as modifying the
attitudes of its customers. I'm not sure which is more daunting.

Change is inevitable, however, and addressing cork taint is an issue whose
time has come.

Consider the fact that crown caps have been an industry standard for many
decades - not only in the breweries, but also the Champagne houses. Many
Champagnes rest for up to a decade in tirage, sealed by crown caps, with no
decline in quality and an appreciation in bottle bouquet and flavor. It's
not much of a leap in faith to expect that other wines would fare as well if
sealed in similar fashion.

Tom S