Hello Food. wine

I would like to put on a wine cheese tasting at a restaurant. Lets say eight
wines with eight cheeses . What would the normal portion be ?( in ounces I
am in California) What other items should accompany the tasting, like fruit
bread ? Any links/urls would be appreciated

Thank You
lotusart

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:33:02 -0700, "lotusart" >
wrote:

>Hello Food. wine
>
>I would like to put on a wine cheese tasting at a restaurant. Lets say eight
>wines with eight cheeses . What would the normal portion be ?( in ounces I
>am in California) What other items should accompany the tasting, like fruit
>bread ?

I generally add up the total intake. You don't want people to drink
more than half a bottle...! So, eight wines, I would say count on
serving 18-20 people with each bottle. This is ample for tasting. It
works quite well (I do it all the time). That's about 39 ml, or 1.3 fl
oz (US).

Good cheese does not need a bread support, unless it is really sloshy.
But make some available anyhow, most people like bread. Sliced apples
can help cleanse the palate between cheeses, but careful with the
wines... Make sure you sequence the cheeses in the correct order, keep
the lighter ones at the beginning, and the strong smelly ones at the
end.

Wine is not easy to match to cheese, many cheeses don't match any
wine, and whites tend to match cheeses much better than reds (I would
keep the reds for the end, with hard cheeses like mimolette or
parmigiano reggiano).

When you have a "menu", let us know, we can take a look at it and make
our usual friendly comments on it... Where is the tasting?

Cheers

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 23:33:02 -0700, "lotusart" >
wrote:

>Hello Food. wine
>
>I would like to put on a wine cheese tasting at a restaurant. Lets say eight
>wines with eight cheeses . What would the normal portion be ?( in ounces I
>am in California) What other items should accompany the tasting, like fruit
>bread ?

I generally add up the total intake. You don't want people to drink
more than half a bottle...! So, eight wines, I would say count on
serving 18-20 people with each bottle. This is ample for tasting. It
works quite well (I do it all the time). That's about 39 ml, or 1.3 fl
oz (US).

Good cheese does not need a bread support, unless it is really sloshy.
But make some available anyhow, most people like bread. Sliced apples
can help cleanse the palate between cheeses, but careful with the
wines... Make sure you sequence the cheeses in the correct order, keep
the lighter ones at the beginning, and the strong smelly ones at the
end.

Wine is not easy to match to cheese, many cheeses don't match any
wine, and whites tend to match cheeses much better than reds (I would
keep the reds for the end, with hard cheeses like mimolette or
parmigiano reggiano).

When you have a "menu", let us know, we can take a look at it and make
our usual friendly comments on it... Where is the tasting?

Cheers

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

In article >, says...
>
>Hello Food. wine
>
>I would like to put on a wine cheese tasting at a restaurant. Lets say eight
>wines with eight cheeses . What would the normal portion be ?( in ounces I
>am in California) What other items should accompany the tasting, like fruit
>bread ? Any links/urls would be appreciated
>
>Thank You
>lotusart

I've got two books that might be of some help in the choices:
"The Cheese Course," by Janet Gletcher, Chronicle Books, ISBN 0-8118-2541-8,
and "The All American Cheese and Wine Book," by Laura Werlin, Stewart Tabori &
Chang, ISBN 1-58479-124-1. The latter does focus on American artisianal
cheeses and wines, but one can easily read between the lines. Both should be
available at both book sellers' and cooking stores. It seems (and looks by the
dust jacket art), that the former might be in the Williams-Sonoma line of
books.

Enjoy,
Hunt

In article >, says...
>
>Hello Food. wine
>
>I would like to put on a wine cheese tasting at a restaurant. Lets say eight
>wines with eight cheeses . What would the normal portion be ?( in ounces I
>am in California) What other items should accompany the tasting, like fruit
>bread ? Any links/urls would be appreciated
>
>Thank You
>lotusart

I've got two books that might be of some help in the choices:
"The Cheese Course," by Janet Gletcher, Chronicle Books, ISBN 0-8118-2541-8,
and "The All American Cheese and Wine Book," by Laura Werlin, Stewart Tabori &
Chang, ISBN 1-58479-124-1. The latter does focus on American artisianal
cheeses and wines, but one can easily read between the lines. Both should be
available at both book sellers' and cooking stores. It seems (and looks by the
dust jacket art), that the former might be in the Williams-Sonoma line of
books.

Enjoy,
Hunt

> I've got two books that might be of some help in the choices:
> "The Cheese Course," by Janet Gletcher, Chronicle Books, ISBN
0-8118-2541-8,
> and "The All American Cheese and Wine Book," by Laura Werlin, Stewart
Tabori &
> Chang, ISBN 1-58479-124-1. The latter does focus on American artisianal
> cheeses and wines, but one can easily read between the lines. Both should
be
> available at both book sellers' and cooking stores. It seems (and looks by
the
> dust jacket art), that the former might be in the Williams-Sonoma line of
> books.
>
A big "I second the motion" for the Werlin book. And if you live in
California you will probably have access to some great artisanal cheeses.

Thanks for the input. I came up with these pairings after a little research.
Thought 1 1/2 ounce would be a good portion for the cheese .








Riesling, Brie

Sauvignon Blanc, Asiago

Chardonnay, Harvati

Pinot Noir, Camembert

Cabernet, Cheddar sharp,

Syrah, Gouda

Port, Bleu

Botrytis Wine, Bleu



lotusart

Thanks for the input. I came up with these pairings after a little research.
Thought 1 1/2 ounce would be a good portion for the cheese .








Riesling, Brie

Sauvignon Blanc, Asiago

Chardonnay, Harvati

Pinot Noir, Camembert

Cabernet, Cheddar sharp,

Syrah, Gouda

Port, Bleu

Botrytis Wine, Bleu



lotusart

"lotusart" > wrote:

> Pinot Noir, Camembert

Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.

M.

"lotusart" > wrote:

> Pinot Noir, Camembert

Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.

M.

Michael Pronay schreef:
> "lotusart" > wrote:
>
>
>>Pinot Noir, Camembert
>
>
> Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.
>
> M.

Funny how tastes can differ... I'm a total Pinot Noir nut and I wouldn't
think twice to say no to Camembert with it (and I do like a good
Camembert). I myself would get something like "old amsterdam" (gouda
type of cheese) to go with it.
I do see the sparkling going together with Camembert / Brie.

Michael Pronay schreef:
> "lotusart" > wrote:
>
>
>>Pinot Noir, Camembert
>
>
> Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.
>
> M.

Funny how tastes can differ... I'm a total Pinot Noir nut and I wouldn't
think twice to say no to Camembert with it (and I do like a good
Camembert). I myself would get something like "old amsterdam" (gouda
type of cheese) to go with it.
I do see the sparkling going together with Camembert / Brie.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:25:45 +0200, Bas van Beek >
wrote:

>Michael Pronay schreef:
>> "lotusart" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pinot Noir, Camembert
>>
>>
>> Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.
>>
>> M.
>
>Funny how tastes can differ... I'm a total Pinot Noir nut and I wouldn't
>think twice to say no to Camembert with it (and I do like a good
>Camembert). I myself would get something like "old amsterdam" (gouda
>type of cheese) to go with it.
>I do see the sparkling going together with Camembert / Brie.

As you said, it is a matter of taste. I approve of Champagne with
Brie, ans I am a bit sceptical about Pinot Noir. If it has to be a
red, a good Beaujolais? How 'bout a beer...

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:25:45 +0200, Bas van Beek >
wrote:

>Michael Pronay schreef:
>> "lotusart" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pinot Noir, Camembert
>>
>>
>> Good choice. Another would be sparkling with Camembert/Brie type.
>>
>> M.
>
>Funny how tastes can differ... I'm a total Pinot Noir nut and I wouldn't
>think twice to say no to Camembert with it (and I do like a good
>Camembert). I myself would get something like "old amsterdam" (gouda
>type of cheese) to go with it.
>I do see the sparkling going together with Camembert / Brie.

As you said, it is a matter of taste. I approve of Champagne with
Brie, ans I am a bit sceptical about Pinot Noir. If it has to be a
red, a good Beaujolais? How 'bout a beer...

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

I've really been getting into cheese lately, and have noticed that
raw, or unpasteurized cheeses have a HUGE flavor advantage over their
pasteurized counterparts (for the most part). In the U.S., USDA
requeres raw milk cheeses must be aged 60 days, so some that I have
found are cheddar, reggiano parmigiano, gruyere, comte, raclette. In
a brie like cheese, reblochon is available in my area. Also, I've
found that you don't have to be that strict about marrying a wine and
cheese...I like them all together. One recommendation from my cheese
books (juliet harbut and steve jenkins) is to mix hard and soft
cheeses, as well as cow, goat, and ewe cheeses to get a good variety.

Andy

Salut/Hi andy,

le/on 4 Aug 2004 20:17:22 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

>I've really been getting into cheese lately, and have noticed that
>raw, or unpasteurized cheeses have a HUGE flavor advantage over their
>pasteurized counterparts (for the most part).

Of course.

> Also, I've found that you don't have to be that strict about marrying a wine and
>cheese...I like them all together.

No accounting for tastes. I think most cheese/wine marriages are at best
passable, very few are excellent, but then, I'm fussy.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi andy,

le/on 4 Aug 2004 20:17:22 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

>I've really been getting into cheese lately, and have noticed that
>raw, or unpasteurized cheeses have a HUGE flavor advantage over their
>pasteurized counterparts (for the most part).

Of course.

> Also, I've found that you don't have to be that strict about marrying a wine and
>cheese...I like them all together.

No accounting for tastes. I think most cheese/wine marriages are at best
passable, very few are excellent, but then, I'm fussy.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

On 4 Aug 2004 20:17:22 -0700, (andy) wrote:

>I've really been getting into cheese lately, and have noticed that
>raw, or unpasteurized cheeses have a HUGE flavor advantage over their
>pasteurized counterparts (for the most part). In the U.S., USDA
>requeres raw milk cheeses must be aged 60 days, so some that I have
>found are cheddar, reggiano parmigiano, gruyere, comte, raclette. In
>a brie like cheese, reblochon is available in my area. Also, I've
>found that you don't have to be that strict about marrying a wine and
>cheese...I like them all together. One recommendation from my cheese
>books (juliet harbut and steve jenkins) is to mix hard and soft
>cheeses, as well as cow, goat, and ewe cheeses to get a good variety.


Hi Andy

I am always amazed at the selection of artisanal or raw milk cheese
available in certain parts of the USA.

Regarding mixing all those cheeses, my experience makes me instead opt
for a very limited choice of cheese, maximum 3-4, and to paying a lot
more attention to the wine match. And that match is not an easy task.
But when it works, it's great.

Again, I find reds hardest to match, and so I tend to experiment with
certain whites. I also like to attempt matches with off-beat wines,
especially wines that have been raised in an oxidative environment.
Their nutty taste seems to match the most powerful of cheeses,
especially goat.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:41:36 +0200, Mike Tommasi > said:

] On 4 Aug 2004 20:17:22 -0700, (andy) wrote:
]
] >I've really been getting into cheese lately, and have noticed that
] >raw, or unpasteurized cheeses have a HUGE flavor advantage over their
] >pasteurized counterparts (for the most part). In the U.S., USDA
] >requeres raw milk cheeses must be aged 60 days, so some that I have
] >found are cheddar, reggiano parmigiano, gruyere, comte, raclette. In
] >a brie like cheese, reblochon is available in my area. Also, I've
] >found that you don't have to be that strict about marrying a wine and
] >cheese...I like them all together. One recommendation from my cheese
] >books (juliet harbut and steve jenkins) is to mix hard and soft
] >cheeses, as well as cow, goat, and ewe cheeses to get a good variety.
]
]
] Hi Andy
]
] I am always amazed at the selection of artisanal or raw milk cheese
] available in certain parts of the USA.
]

There is no question that some very fine cheeses are being made in the US.
The funny thing is that -- advertising campaigns aside -- I associate these more
with the east coast than California. Not to say there are none; but even my
SF "local" cheese store (when we lived there) Creighton's next to Tower Market,
had trouble finding many interesting CA cheeses. There were some great ones,
but out weighed by the east coast.

] Regarding mixing all those cheeses, my experience makes me instead opt
] for a very limited choice of cheese, maximum 3-4, and to paying a lot
] more attention to the wine match. And that match is not an easy task.
] But when it works, it's great.
]

I agree, too many is too hard. In France it is very common to only serve
a single cheese after the meal, which simplifies things. The match is
always tricky IMO -- not that I agree with Ian and Mike about the
unmatchability of red and camembert.

] Again, I find reds hardest to match, and so I tend to experiment with
] certain whites. I also like to attempt matches with off-beat wines,
] especially wines that have been raised in an oxidative environment.
] Their nutty taste seems to match the most powerful of cheeses,
] especially goat.
]

Interesting, you mean as in vin de paille? I'll have to give that a try,
sounds quite good. Anyway conventional wisdom is certainly that white
is easier to match than red...

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

"There is no question that some very fine cheeses are being made in the US.
The funny thing is that -- advertising campaigns aside -- I associate these
more
with the east coast than California. "

Emery,

Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),
but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
prices are just outrageous.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in
particular),
> but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog.
Actually,
> I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer,
except the
> prices are just outrageous.

I've never heard of either of those, but I'd bet that Whole Foods carries
them. A new one just opened nearby, and their cheese department is
_incredible_! I'll have to try them.

If you've never had Vella Dry Jack cheese, you should give it a try. It
isn't Reggiano, but the texture is similar and it's quite good.

Tom S

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in
particular),
> but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog.
Actually,
> I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer,
except the
> prices are just outrageous.

I've never heard of either of those, but I'd bet that Whole Foods carries
them. A new one just opened nearby, and their cheese department is
_incredible_! I'll have to try them.

If you've never had Vella Dry Jack cheese, you should give it a try. It
isn't Reggiano, but the texture is similar and it's quite good.

Tom S

>"There is no question that some very fine cheeses are being made in the US.
>The funny thing is that -- advertising campaigns aside -- I associate these
>more
>with the east coast than California.

I've found some terrific artisinal cheese in Vermont. I usually buy my cheese
from
WWW.Fromages.com (not an advertisment and I have no stake in the venture) They
ship to the US overnight and I find the selection and quality to be outstanding
if not pricey but one can't spent too much to find good cheese...:-)
Bi!!

>"There is no question that some very fine cheeses are being made in the US.
>The funny thing is that -- advertising campaigns aside -- I associate these
>more
>with the east coast than California.

I've found some terrific artisinal cheese in Vermont. I usually buy my cheese
from
WWW.Fromages.com (not an advertisment and I have no stake in the venture) They
ship to the US overnight and I find the selection and quality to be outstanding
if not pricey but one can't spent too much to find good cheese...:-)
Bi!!

On 06 Aug 2004 13:20:13 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:

[]
] Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),

Yes Vermont does seem to excel. I remember a number here have tried the
great sheep's milk from Putney (Vermont not outside of London).

] but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
] I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
] prices are just outrageous.
]

Love the name, I'll keep an eye out for Cowgirl when I'm back next. US cheese is,
needless to say, unavailable in France.

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Emery Davis wrote:
> On 06 Aug 2004 13:20:13 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:
>
> []
> ] Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),
>
> Yes Vermont does seem to excel. I remember a number here have tried the
> great sheep's milk from Putney (Vermont not outside of London).
>
> ] but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
> ] I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
> ] prices are just outrageous.
> ]
>
> Love the name, I'll keep an eye out for Cowgirl when I'm back next. US cheese is,
> needless to say, unavailable in France.

Emery,
I'll second the recommendation for Cowgirl. I'm actually surprised
that you didn't encounter it during your time in SF. Coastal Sonoma
County is now a hotbed of artisanal cheese production, what with all
those pampered, fog-drenched cows meandering the countryside. And while
we're about it, I'll put in a plug for Indiana's own Capriole, a maker
of outstanding goat cheeses, including a stupendous Banon knockoff, now
known as "O'Banon" in honor of our late Governor Frank O'Bannon, who
died in office last year.

Mark Lipton

Emery Davis wrote:
> On 06 Aug 2004 13:20:13 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:
>
> []
> ] Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),
>
> Yes Vermont does seem to excel. I remember a number here have tried the
> great sheep's milk from Putney (Vermont not outside of London).
>
> ] but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
> ] I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
> ] prices are just outrageous.
> ]
>
> Love the name, I'll keep an eye out for Cowgirl when I'm back next. US cheese is,
> needless to say, unavailable in France.

Emery,
I'll second the recommendation for Cowgirl. I'm actually surprised
that you didn't encounter it during your time in SF. Coastal Sonoma
County is now a hotbed of artisanal cheese production, what with all
those pampered, fog-drenched cows meandering the countryside. And while
we're about it, I'll put in a plug for Indiana's own Capriole, a maker
of outstanding goat cheeses, including a stupendous Banon knockoff, now
known as "O'Banon" in honor of our late Governor Frank O'Bannon, who
died in office last year.

Mark Lipton

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:10:45 -0500, Mark Lipton > said:

] Emery Davis wrote:
] > On 06 Aug 2004 13:20:13 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:
] >
] > []
] > ] Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),
] >
] > Yes Vermont does seem to excel. I remember a number here have tried the
] > great sheep's milk from Putney (Vermont not outside of London).
] >
] > ] but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
] > ] I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
] > ] prices are just outrageous.
] > ]
] >
] > Love the name, I'll keep an eye out for Cowgirl when I'm back next. US cheese is,
] > needless to say, unavailable in France.
]
] Emery,
] I'll second the recommendation for Cowgirl. I'm actually surprised
] that you didn't encounter it during your time in SF. Coastal Sonoma
] County is now a hotbed of artisanal cheese production, what with all
] those pampered, fog-drenched cows meandering the countryside. And while
] we're about it, I'll put in a plug for Indiana's own Capriole, a maker
] of outstanding goat cheeses, including a stupendous Banon knockoff, now
] known as "O'Banon" in honor of our late Governor Frank O'Bannon, who
] died in office last year.
]

Mark, not saying I didn't have it, just that I didn't remember it! But indeed
those local Humbolt crops can inspire cows, and other things...

The Capriole chevre is widely available, yes? I seem to think I had some on a
trip home last summer, very nice.

Sorry about the governor, though.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:10:45 -0500, Mark Lipton > said:

] Emery Davis wrote:
] > On 06 Aug 2004 13:20:13 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:
] >
] > []
] > ] Some of my personal favorites are indeed East Coast (Vermont in particular),
] >
] > Yes Vermont does seem to excel. I remember a number here have tried the
] > great sheep's milk from Putney (Vermont not outside of London).
] >
] > ] but there are certainly some fine cheeses from CA like Humboldt Fog. Actually,
] > ] I might nominate Cowgirl Creamery as my favorite US cheese producer, except the
] > ] prices are just outrageous.
] > ]
] >
] > Love the name, I'll keep an eye out for Cowgirl when I'm back next. US cheese is,
] > needless to say, unavailable in France.
]
] Emery,
] I'll second the recommendation for Cowgirl. I'm actually surprised
] that you didn't encounter it during your time in SF. Coastal Sonoma
] County is now a hotbed of artisanal cheese production, what with all
] those pampered, fog-drenched cows meandering the countryside. And while
] we're about it, I'll put in a plug for Indiana's own Capriole, a maker
] of outstanding goat cheeses, including a stupendous Banon knockoff, now
] known as "O'Banon" in honor of our late Governor Frank O'Bannon, who
] died in office last year.
]

Mark, not saying I didn't have it, just that I didn't remember it! But indeed
those local Humbolt crops can inspire cows, and other things...

The Capriole chevre is widely available, yes? I seem to think I had some on a
trip home last summer, very nice.

Sorry about the governor, though.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies