I recently purchased an older home. Built partially below ground level is a
room, approximately 14 x 10 x 7, with concrete ceiling, walls and floor.
There are no windows only a small door to the outside and two small vent
openings typically found on homes in this area to provide air circulation in
crawl spaces.

I'm considering installing my wine racks in this area and cool using a
portable air conditioner, vented through one of the existing vent openings
and closing off the other. I found a 7,500 BTU portable cooler with an EER
of 14 for $319. It has a thermostat setting range that goes down to 58
degrees. My thinking is that I can use this set up rather than walling off
an area and putting in a wine chiller at a much greater cost.

Am I crazy?

Quick response -- I have only a moment -- see my comment on portable air
conditioners (you can search under that specific phrase for this newsgroup,
on groups.google.com) -- in May of this year.

Max

I'm not a scientist nor an engineer, and I don't even play one on TV. But my
thoughts:

The main question is where are you? Answer can vary between a hot humid climate
(US Deep South), hot dry climate (SW US), mountain climate, etc.

My only real concern with an air conditioner is that it works partially by
pulling humidity from the air. In a situation where it only would be running
part of the time (say Pacific NW, or mountains) I don't think that would matter
a lot. And maybe in the deep South the natural humdity is SO high lowering it
some wouldn't be a big deal. But I'd be very wary in a naturally dry climate
(AZ say) lowering the natural humdity further. While I think wine is more
durable than some think, there's little argument that prolonged exposure to low
humidity endangers cork.

Speaking of cellars, tomorrow is target date for my passive cellar construction
project to start. To date, the bulk of my wines have been stored in a damp
cool room at basement of my office. It can be a little inconvenient, as I need
to plan before I leave work if I wish to carry a bottle home for dinner. Of
course, it has advantages too, as it keeps me from rushing down to open a
prized bottle at end of a dinner party.

My construction savvy friend is coming to dinner tonight. My current plan is to
put the cellar in the NW corner (below grade) of basement. I'm planning on
building and insulating 2 walls, with vapor barriers on inside and out,
greenboard on outside, foam insulating board on inside. Insulating ceiling.

The basement generally stays pretty cool in summer anyway. Except... we have to
run a dehumdifier due to some other stuff (music, etc) stored there. Which
raises heat, of course. I'm hoping that the insulation and vapor barriers will
allow the cellar corner to stay closer to the normal basement temperature and
humidity, with the outer walls and floor acting as a heat sink.


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

I do not think you will find a window AC satisfactory as it comes out of
the box. The possible problem with low humidity can easily be overcome
using a portable humidifier that holds several gallons of water and that
can be bought at many home centers for under US$100. However you
probably will find that the AC freezes up with ice at times when you try
to run it in the 50s F range with sufficient humidity. Also consider
that in some situations you may need some heat if the room used can drop
below the desired control temperature in the winter.

I use a window air conditioner in a room with one outside wall. However,
I built custom controls for it. The advantage of the window AC is that
it is easily and rapidly replaced if it fails. I keep a spare on hand.

First you need to insulate the wall well on the interior with some of
the foil-bubble reflective insulation material that can be found in home
centers in rolls. Follow the instructions. If there is a crawl space or
basement under the floor, insulation should be applied under the wine
room floor. If there is an attic, more insulation above the wine room
should be used, or the ceiling of the wine room should be covered with
the mentioned rolls of insullation material. Any windows or doors also
should have this insulation applied.

Get the largest capacity AC you can easily handle, as the less it runs,
the fewer problems you will have with ice build up or excessive water
evaporation by the humidifier. The AC must be modified so it runs all of
the time by bypassing the built in thermostat. Then you have to build a
custom control ito which you plug the AC. I use a Penn thermostat with a
very large bulb and long tube to the bulb. The bulb goes near the center
of the wine room into a rack. Another Penn thermostat senses outdoor
temperature and is used to switch to heatng in very cold weather. A
large fan is placed in front of the AC inlet to greatly increase the air
flow through the AC. The control cycles the AC as needed when the
outside temperature is above a certain temperature selected by trial and
error. Below that temperature, the control cycles a small electric
heater with a fan as needed. When either heat or cooling is on, a fan
near the ceiling comes on that circulates air throughout the room. The
fan in front of the AC intake comes on with the AC, but stays on about
10 minutes after the AC cycles off to return as much moisture as
possible to the room and to help prevent ice build up in the AC. The
control can be built fairly cheaply with several relays, etc., but you
would have to know a bit about electronics to do this.

I live in an area that has reached -10 F in the winter and 110 F in the
summer. The humidity can range from extremely low to extremely high. In
a situation with less extreme variations in temperature, you might get
by with much less elaborate system.


My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

I live in central Arkansas where the humidity can get extremely high in the
summer. My wine racks will store around 400 bottles. At my previous home, I
stored wine under my house, in a semi basement/crawl space are that never
got out of the low to mid 60s in the summer and high to mid 50s in the
winter. Even though I store a lot of wine, I don't cellar the really good
stuff; rarely do I pay more than $50 for a bottle. I just want to avoid
large temperature swings and getting the wine too hot. Last year I drank a
1985 St. Julian Bordeaux that I'd stored for 12 years and it was wonderful.
My current situation looks like it will be more prone to higher
temperatures, hence my looking for a cheap cooling solution.

Thanks for your input.

John

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> I'm not a scientist nor an engineer, and I don't even play one on TV. But
my
> thoughts:
>
> The main question is where are you? Answer can vary between a hot humid
climate
> (US Deep South), hot dry climate (SW US), mountain climate, etc.
>
> My only real concern with an air conditioner is that it works partially by
> pulling humidity from the air. In a situation where it only would be
running
> part of the time (say Pacific NW, or mountains) I don't think that would
matter
> a lot. And maybe in the deep South the natural humdity is SO high lowering
it
> some wouldn't be a big deal. But I'd be very wary in a naturally dry
climate
> (AZ say) lowering the natural humdity further. While I think wine is more
> durable than some think, there's little argument that prolonged exposure
to low
> humidity endangers cork.
>
> Speaking of cellars, tomorrow is target date for my passive cellar
construction
> project to start. To date, the bulk of my wines have been stored in a
damp
> cool room at basement of my office. It can be a little inconvenient, as I
need
> to plan before I leave work if I wish to carry a bottle home for dinner.
Of
> course, it has advantages too, as it keeps me from rushing down to open a
> prized bottle at end of a dinner party.
>
> My construction savvy friend is coming to dinner tonight. My current plan
is to
> put the cellar in the NW corner (below grade) of basement. I'm planning
on
> building and insulating 2 walls, with vapor barriers on inside and out,
> greenboard on outside, foam insulating board on inside. Insulating
ceiling.
>
> The basement generally stays pretty cool in summer anyway. Except... we
have to
> run a dehumdifier due to some other stuff (music, etc) stored there. Which
> raises heat, of course. I'm hoping that the insulation and vapor barriers
will
> allow the cellar corner to stay closer to the normal basement temperature
and
> humidity, with the outer walls and floor acting as a heat sink.
>
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

there are 3 distinctions between "wine storage equipment" and traditional refrigeration (low temp) or hvac equipment (high temp). the latter is designed to cool quickly. in doing so, they essentially evacuate warm (and the associated moisture in the warm air) quickly. that does dehydrate the interior, potentially leading to deterioration of the cork and oxidation/evaporation of the wine.

"quick cooling" can, also, over the long haul expose the wine to less than ideal, severe fluctuations in temperature. properly designed wine cooling systems cool gradually and obviate those 2 issues. they are also designed to work with the ambient environment and replenish, achieve and maintain humidity levels "relative" to 55 - 57 degrees within the optimum 55% - 70% range.

most air conditioners will have tendency to freeze up before achieving the proper storage temperatures. of course, the real question is whether your time, potential aggravation, and investment in the collection worth trying to "save" a few hundred dollars on equipment that is not designed for an application?

first and foremost, room preparation is critical. none will perform efficiently absent proper construction. you may want to visit http://www.galtwinecellars.com/catalog_15.html this basic information should be of some help to you in your planning.

good luck!




"JB" > wrote in message ink.net...
> I recently purchased an older home. Built partially below ground level is a
> room, approximately 14 x 10 x 7, with concrete ceiling, walls and floor.
> There are no windows only a small door to the outside and two small vent
> openings typically found on homes in this area to provide air circulation in
> crawl spaces.
>
> I'm considering installing my wine racks in this area and cool using a
> portable air conditioner, vented through one of the existing vent openings
> and closing off the other. I found a 7,500 BTU portable cooler with an EER
> of 14 for $319. It has a thermostat setting range that goes down to 58
> degrees. My thinking is that I can use this set up rather than walling off
> an area and putting in a wine chiller at a much greater cost.
>
> Am I crazy?
>
>
>