Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
weekend with friends?
Please bear this in mind first.
Male 1 prefers white wine
Female 1 prefers red wine
Male 2 prefers lager
Female 2 prefers white wine
All of above will drink any of above.

The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
Italian style dish.
The main is a full bodied curry.
What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
please.
Thanks
Jonny

"Jonny" > wrote in message
...
> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> weekend with friends?
> Please bear this in mind first.
> Male 1 prefers white wine
> Female 1 prefers red wine
> Male 2 prefers lager
> Female 2 prefers white wine
> All of above will drink any of above.
>
> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.
> The main is a full bodied curry.
> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
> please.
> Thanks
> Jonny

Try this link, it goes to the TESCO site which matches styles of wine with
various types of food. Good luck!

http://www.tesco.com/winestore/fooda...dandwineA1.htm

"Jonny" > skrev i melding
...
> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
>
> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.
> The main is a full bodied curry.
Hi
The curry calls for a sweetish white. Common wisdom is that tomatoes don't
enhance wines, unless the preparation deacidifies them (I don't find that a
problem myself, however). A creamy sauce with the pasta sounds fine to me
with a white wine.
A Semillon could be nice, well chilled. Or a German Riesling of Kabinett
type from a Rhine area, if you can find one.
Anders

I'd go with a fruity Pinot Grigio.
The light dry style will stay out of the way of the cream sauce and the
fruitiness will work with the curry.

"Jonny" > wrote in message
...
> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> weekend with friends?
> Please bear this in mind first.
> Male 1 prefers white wine
> Female 1 prefers red wine
> Male 2 prefers lager
> Female 2 prefers white wine
> All of above will drink any of above.
>
> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.
> The main is a full bodied curry.
> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
> please.
> Thanks
> Jonny

In uk.food+drink.indian Anders T?rneskog > wrote:
>
> "Jonny" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
>>
>> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
>> Italian style dish.
>> The main is a full bodied curry.
> Hi
> The curry calls for a sweetish white.

I'd agree, I've found Gewurztraminer to be the best wine accompaniment to
most Asian food - although it's not a type of wine I like much otherwise!

I usually prefer beer to wine with Asian food though, a good well-chilled
pilsener, a well-hopped pale ale or even a wheatbeer all work well with
curries.

pete
--
"there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"

In news:73HEc.7915$IQ4.5984@attbi_s02,
Jeff Russell > typed:

> I'd go with a fruity Pinot Grigio.
> The light dry style will stay out of the way of the cream sauce
and
> the fruitiness will work with the curry.


If it were me, especially with four people, I wouldn't try to
match a single wine to both dishes, but have at least two.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


>
> "Jonny" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are
having
>> this weekend with friends?
>> Please bear this in mind first.
>> Male 1 prefers white wine
>> Female 1 prefers red wine
>> Male 2 prefers lager
>> Female 2 prefers white wine
>> All of above will drink any of above.
>>
>> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to
be an
>> Italian style dish.
>> The main is a full bodied curry.
>> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that
may suit
>> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than
specific
>> brands please.
>> Thanks
>> Jonny

> > "Jonny" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are
> having
> >> this weekend with friends?
> >> Please bear this in mind first.
> >> Male 1 prefers white wine
> >> Female 1 prefers red wine
> >> Male 2 prefers lager
> >> Female 2 prefers white wine
> >> All of above will drink any of above.
> >>
> >> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to
> be an
> >> Italian style dish.
> >> The main is a full bodied curry.
> >> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that
> may suit
> >> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than
> specific
> >> brands please.
> >> Thanks
> >> Jonny

"Ken Blake" > wrote in message
...
> In news:73HEc.7915$IQ4.5984@attbi_s02,
> Jeff Russell > typed:
>
> > I'd go with a fruity Pinot Grigio.
> > The light dry style will stay out of the way of the cream sauce
> and
> > the fruitiness will work with the curry.
>
>
> If it were me, especially with four people, I wouldn't try to
> match a single wine to both dishes, but have at least two.
>
> --
> Ken Blake
> Please reply to the newsgroup
>

I'd agree. The Pinot Grigio sounds fine for the starter, and would also do
for those who want to stay with white wine for the curry. If you'd like a
second choice for the main course, I'd suggest a hearty Australian Shiraz or
Washington State (US) Syrah. But I'd probably opt for a good lager - Pilsner
Urquell if available.

Cheers,
Rowan

"Jonny" > wrote in message
...
> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> weekend with friends?
> Please bear this in mind first.
> Male 1 prefers white wine
> Female 1 prefers red wine
> Male 2 prefers lager
> Female 2 prefers white wine
> All of above will drink any of above.
>
> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.
> The main is a full bodied curry.
> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
> please.

Madhur Jaffrey suggests Chablis and Pinot Grigio, an Australian Merlot or
mid priced Bordeaux.
If you can be more specific about 'the curry' we could be more specific
about the wine, but it sounds as though your 'curry' is non-specific. What
are you going to bung in it?
I would start with a dryish sparkling white and for the full bodied curry an
American Cabernet or Shiraz. A cold ruby port would also go. If the curry
has coconut and tomatoes, maybe a red Bordeaux or spicy Gewurztraminer, even
a cold Madeira or Oloroso sherry.
cheers
Wazza

Hi there,


Jonny wrote:

> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.
> The main is a full bodied curry.
> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> the two very different courses.

I'd go for something light, fruity crisp and dry. I found that no wine
can compete with the flavours of a "full bodied" curry, so I usually
keep things on the cool and refreshing side. Pinot Grigio, or
Chardonnay should be perfect, and they go well with any kind of pasta,
too.

With my curries, I personally prefer cider. Nothing beats a fresh pint
(or two) of Scrumpy Jack.


Have an nice one,
Peter

"Bryan Wallwork" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jonny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> > weekend with friends?
> > Please bear this in mind first.
> > Male 1 prefers white wine
> > Female 1 prefers red wine
> > Male 2 prefers lager
> > Female 2 prefers white wine
> > All of above will drink any of above.
> >
> > The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> > Italian style dish.
> > The main is a full bodied curry.
> > What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> > the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
> > please.
>
> Madhur Jaffrey suggests Chablis and Pinot Grigio, an Australian Merlot or
> mid priced Bordeaux.
> If you can be more specific about 'the curry' we could be more specific
> about the wine, but it sounds as though your 'curry' is non-specific. What
> are you going to bung in it?
> I would start with a dryish sparkling white and for the full bodied curry
an
> American Cabernet or Shiraz. A cold ruby port would also go. If the curry
> has coconut and tomatoes, maybe a red Bordeaux or spicy Gewurztraminer,
even
> a cold Madeira or Oloroso sherry.
> cheers
> Wazza
>
>

Good points Bryan.
If the curry is a heavy one such as lamb, I would like to suggest an
California Zinfandel perhaps Ridge or Ravenswood. American Zins can be soft
in the mouth like a Merlot with a spicy or peppery finish.

Jeff

"Jeff Russell" > wrote in message
news:_b_Ec.9072$MB3.8063@attbi_s04...
>
> "Bryan Wallwork" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jonny" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> > > weekend with friends?
> > > Please bear this in mind first.
> > > Male 1 prefers white wine
> > > Female 1 prefers red wine
> > > Male 2 prefers lager
> > > Female 2 prefers white wine
> > > All of above will drink any of above.
> > >
> > > The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> > > Italian style dish.
> > > The main is a full bodied curry.
> > > What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> > > the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands
> > > please.
> >
> > Madhur Jaffrey suggests Chablis and Pinot Grigio, an Australian Merlot
or
> > mid priced Bordeaux.
> > If you can be more specific about 'the curry' we could be more specific
> > about the wine, but it sounds as though your 'curry' is non-specific.
What
> > are you going to bung in it?
> > I would start with a dryish sparkling white and for the full bodied
curry
> an
> > American Cabernet or Shiraz. A cold ruby port would also go. If the
curry
> > has coconut and tomatoes, maybe a red Bordeaux or spicy Gewurztraminer,
> even
> > a cold Madeira or Oloroso sherry.
> > cheers
> > Wazza
> >
> >
>
> Good points Bryan.
> If the curry is a heavy one such as lamb, I would like to suggest an
> California Zinfandel perhaps Ridge or Ravenswood. American Zins can be
soft
> in the mouth like a Merlot with a spicy or peppery finish.
>
> Jeff
>
interesting how you interpreted 'heavy', I thought heavy on the spices
and/or chilli!
I had not thought of lamb as heavy, they bounce off things rather well round
here ;?) nearly got two of the woolly maggots today, spring lamb
anyone......!
cheers
Wazza

I was focused on the type of meat when defining it as heavy.

"Bryan Wallwork" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Russell" > wrote in message
> news:_b_Ec.9072$MB3.8063@attbi_s04...
> >
> > "Bryan Wallwork" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Jonny" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having
this
> > > > weekend with friends?
> > > > Please bear this in mind first.
> > > > Male 1 prefers white wine
> > > > Female 1 prefers red wine
> > > > Male 2 prefers lager
> > > > Female 2 prefers white wine
> > > > All of above will drink any of above.
> > > >
> > > > The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> > > > Italian style dish.
> > > > The main is a full bodied curry.
> > > > What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may
suit
> > > > the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific
brands
> > > > please.
> > >
> > > Madhur Jaffrey suggests Chablis and Pinot Grigio, an Australian Merlot
> or
> > > mid priced Bordeaux.
> > > If you can be more specific about 'the curry' we could be more
specific
> > > about the wine, but it sounds as though your 'curry' is non-specific.
> What
> > > are you going to bung in it?
> > > I would start with a dryish sparkling white and for the full bodied
> curry
> > an
> > > American Cabernet or Shiraz. A cold ruby port would also go. If the
> curry
> > > has coconut and tomatoes, maybe a red Bordeaux or spicy
Gewurztraminer,
> > even
> > > a cold Madeira or Oloroso sherry.
> > > cheers
> > > Wazza
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Good points Bryan.
> > If the curry is a heavy one such as lamb, I would like to suggest an
> > California Zinfandel perhaps Ridge or Ravenswood. American Zins can be
> soft
> > in the mouth like a Merlot with a spicy or peppery finish.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> interesting how you interpreted 'heavy', I thought heavy on the spices
> and/or chilli!
> I had not thought of lamb as heavy, they bounce off things rather well
round
> here ;?) nearly got two of the woolly maggots today, spring lamb
> anyone......!
> cheers
> Wazza
>
>
>

Quoting from message >
posted on 1 Jul 2004 by Peter Zinckgraf
I would like to add:


> Jonny wrote:
>
> > The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> > Italian style dish.
> > The main is a full bodied curry.
> > What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> > the two very different courses.

<snip>

> With my curries, I personally prefer cider. Nothing beats a fresh pint
> (or two) of Scrumpy Jack.

or Thatcher's cider made from single variety apples - Katy or Spartan go
well with curries.

--
....ElaineJ... Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
....Kinetic... http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
...StrongArm.. Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
....RISC PC... Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup

Quoting from message >
posted on 30 Jun 2004 by Jonny
I would like to add:

> Can you advise me on what wine to choose for a meal we are having this
> weekend with friends?

> The proposed menu is a starter of tomato/basil pasta. Meant to be an
> Italian style dish.


> The main is a full bodied curry.
> What I am looking for is suggestions of a style of wine that may suit
> the two very different courses. Grapes etc rather than specific brands

This query has come up a couple of times and if you check google groups
you'll find that it initiated long discussions both times and there was
no conclusive agreement.

Personally for wine with Indian curry I go for a gutsy Aussie Shiraz.

--
....ElaineJ... Home Pages and FAQ of uk.food+drink.indian can be viewed at
....Kinetic... http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones/ufdi/index.html
...StrongArm.. Under construction, FAQ, recipes, tips, booklist, links
....RISC PC... Questions and suggestions please, email or to the newsgroup

In message >, Elaine Jones
> writes

>Personally for wine with Indian curry I go for a gutsy Aussie Shiraz.

Between courses, a decently drinkable Aussie for about £6

*During* courses, if highly spiced; save the money and pay £3 for some
Bulgarian Cab Sauv ... it cuts grease really well ...

The stronger the curry, the rougher the wine ... in my view

Personally I *do* like a chilled lager with my grub ... had plenty of
water on Thursday, that was fine as the food was very mild.
--
Rex M F Smith

In ,
Rex M F Smith ]> typed:
> In message >, Elaine Jones
> > writes
>
>>Personally for wine with Indian curry I go for a gutsy Aussie
Shiraz.
>
> Between courses, a decently drinkable Aussie for about £6
>
> *During* courses, if highly spiced; save the money and pay £3
for some
> Bulgarian Cab Sauv ... it cuts grease really well ...
>
> The stronger the curry, the rougher the wine ... in my view


I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. With
highly spiced food--for example Indian, Chinese, or Mexican--I
almost always prefer almost any white to any red. I think the
reason is simply that I prefer chilled wine with spicy food.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Salut/Hi Ken Blake,

le/on Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:57:00 -0700, tu disais/you said:-

>In ,
>Rex M F Smith ]> typed:
>> In message >, Elaine Jones
>> > writes
>>
>>>Personally for wine with Indian curry I go for a gutsy Aussie
>Shiraz.

Can't agree, sorry.

>> The stronger the curry, the rougher the wine ... in my view

Again, can't agree.

>I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. With
>highly spiced food--for example Indian, Chinese, or Mexican--I
>almost always prefer almost any white to any red. I think the
>reason is simply that I prefer chilled wine with spicy food.

I quite agree with you, Ken. As I've said on the many occasions that the
subject has come up on afw, at best the choice of wines with dishes
containing significant levels of chiles and other spices, is damage
limitation. I know TomS doesn't agree, but I think he's in a small minority
on this.

So from the point of view of damage limitation, I find that spicy wines with
some sweetness, served cold, resist better than almost anything else. I've
not tried a powerful Gruner Veltliner, and it's possible that such a wine
may well be a good example of the type of wine I'm thinking of. My shortlist
would be for a reasonably priced Gewurztraminer.

A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice (real fruit
juice). In India, water or lassi seem to be the beverages of choice, if
anything, though as I understand it, most people there don't drink much with
Indian food.

One problem of course, is that the range of dishes under the umbrella of
"indian food" varies hugely, from the meat phall so beloved of "after the
pub" machismo types in the UK, where nothing whatsoever can survive (except
TomS' mouth), to the most delicate roast chicken, with just a touch of lemon
and garlic water, where the spicing won't stop any wine showing well.
However, if you consider the _sort_ of food normally found in Indian
restaurants up and down the UK (especially), with rich sauces containing
liberal amounts of a variety of spices like chillies (UK spelling) coriander
powder, cumin powder, turmeric, cardamom and so on, then my previous
generalisations are valid.

I know that many food writers (including Jaffrey and Chapman etc) are happy
to recommend wines for curry, but I don't think they are using sufficiently
exacting criteria to judge the matches. I think their suggestions are more
driven by the public _demand_ for a match, than by its success.

One question I'd ask of anyone proposing a match is "is the wine going to
taste better for being drunk with this dish?" If the answer is "no" as it
will be in 99% of cases then the match is never better than moderate. The
other question is the mirror image. "Will the dish taste better for being
matched with this wine?". Again if the answer is "no" then it's NOT a good
match.

I should say that I am a long term (>40 years) fan of indian food and a
slightly less long term fan (>30) years of wine. In the twenty years I've
practiced my favourite hobby of matching food and wine, I've never ever
found a _good_ match (using the criteria above) of any typical "curry",
though I've tried often enough as you can imagine.

(as a personal note to you, I've not forgotten to contact the SNCF on your
behalf soon).
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Ace,

le/on Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:47:29 +0200, tu disais/you said:-


>'rough' when referring to any wine I'd choose to drink. As I said
>earlier in this discussion, a robust hearty red would always be my
>wine of choice with heavily spiced foods.

Fine, but does the wine _enhance_ indian food? I don't find it does. YMMV

>the spices, but I'm puzzled by this talk of 'damage limitation'. If
>I'm eating spicy food I want a wine to enhance it, not kill it.

Agreed.

>>A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice (real fruit
>>juice). In India, water or lassi seem to be the beverages of choice, if
>>anything, though as I understand it, most people there don't drink much with
>>Indian food.

And I should have mentioned cider, which I find goes much better than wine,
especially if it's got some sweetness.

>Well they don't go in much for alcohol in general, so it's a bit of a
>moot point IMO.

Yes and no. For any food/drink marriage, it's always worth looking at what
people do in the country of origin. Ok, I know that when talking about
curries it's moot as to whether what's offered nowadays is genuinely indian,
but it certainly can illuminate our choices. As you'll know, there's a fair
amount of a lager type beer brewed in India, and I imagine that some might
get drunk with meals. There's an infant wine industry too, but I don't
really think it's mature enough to draw any inferences as yet.

>>One question I'd ask of anyone proposing a match is "is the wine going to
>>taste better for being drunk with this dish?" If the answer is "no" as it
>>will be in 99% of cases then the match is never better than moderate.
>
>Hmmm, maybe, but you're overlooking the fact that wine is 'supposed'
>to be drunk with food, so it's more the second question below which is
>of importance.

I'm overlooking nothing. To say that "wine is supposed to be drunk with
food" is at best a generalisation and at worst incorrect. Not ALL wines are
designed to be drunk with food, and not all foods can be enhanced by wines.
If a food is SO wine unfriendly that it kills any wine drunk with it, it's a
shame to kill a wine in that way. (Proper) Camembert is a case in point.
There's NO wine that I know that will go well with Camembert. To be precise,
I've never foud a wine which enhances it, and I've never found a wine which
isn't damaged by it. So I drink cider or water with camembert. There's no
disgrace to wine in not being able to withstand the stuff, it's a fact,
that's all. (note to US readers, I'm not talking about the pasteurised
travesties sold under that name, but _real_ camembert AOC, moulé à la
louche).

>>The other question is the mirror image. "Will the dish taste better for being
>>matched with this wine?". Again if the answer is "no" then it's NOT a good
>>match.
>
>Exactly, but I find that there are a great many wines where the answer
>here is in fact 'yes'.

Then I would suggest that either the indian dishes you're seeking to match
aren't very typically "indian" as found in "indian" restaurants throughout
the UK or your criteria for "enhancing" are not mine.

>Basically, it's all simply a matter of taste,

Yes, I think that's fair, though I'd prefer to insert 'educated' between
'of' and 'taste'.

> and I'd be just as reluctant to say that people 'should' drink this or that wine as I
>would be scornful of anyone saying I 'should not' drink wine with
>curries at all.

Why? Is the shared experience of many generations of wine lovers not worth
consideration? I am always happy to listen to what others have to say about
food/wine marriages, despite having made it a hobby for 30 odd years. I'm
not trying to be in any way snobbish here, Bruce, but simply trying to
create a reasonably objective framework for judging food and wine (or more
generally -drink) marriages and then applying that framework in the
particular domain of indian food. So far as I am aware, I'm about the only
person to have actually tried to produce an objective marking scheme, and I
did it in conjunction with several _real_ experts for an article in "Wine"
magazine back in the mid 80s, to be called "perfect partners". They had the
expertise, and I produced the judging structure.

For your interest, and for what it's worth, the framework goes a bit like
this (regular readers of afw can switch off)

5 both food and beverage are significantly improved. (excellent marriage)
4 one of them is significantly enhanced, and the other is no worse, or both
are a bit better. (good marriage)
3. Neither harmed, perhaps one a bit better. (OK match)
2. One or both slightly less good (poor match)
1. One wrecked, the other at best OK
0. Both really spoilt.

by those criteria, I've never had better than a 2 or 3 with "typical"
indian restaurant food and any wine I've tried.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

In ,
Ian Hoare > typed:

> Salut/Hi Ken Blake,

>>I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. With
>>highly spiced food--for example Indian, Chinese, or Mexican--I
>>almost always prefer almost any white to any red. I think the
>>reason is simply that I prefer chilled wine with spicy food.
>
> I quite agree with you, Ken. As I've said on the many occasions
that
> the subject has come up on afw, at best the choice of wines
with
> dishes containing significant levels of chiles and other
spices, is
> damage limitation. I know TomS doesn't agree, but I think he's
in a
> small minority on this.
>
> A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice
(real
> fruit juice).


I've never had fruit juice with Indian food (I'm not sure that
the sweetness wouldn't bother me), but I clearly agree on the
beer. I think iced tea works well too.


> (as a personal note to you, I've not forgotten to contact the
SNCF on
> your behalf soon).


Thanks, Ian.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

In ,
Ian Hoare > typed:

> Salut/Hi Ken Blake,

>>I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. With
>>highly spiced food--for example Indian, Chinese, or Mexican--I
>>almost always prefer almost any white to any red. I think the
>>reason is simply that I prefer chilled wine with spicy food.
>
> I quite agree with you, Ken. As I've said on the many occasions
that
> the subject has come up on afw, at best the choice of wines
with
> dishes containing significant levels of chiles and other
spices, is
> damage limitation. I know TomS doesn't agree, but I think he's
in a
> small minority on this.
>
> A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice
(real
> fruit juice).


I've never had fruit juice with Indian food (I'm not sure that
the sweetness wouldn't bother me), but I clearly agree on the
beer. I think iced tea works well too.


> (as a personal note to you, I've not forgotten to contact the
SNCF on
> your behalf soon).


Thanks, Ian.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

In message >, Ken Blake
> writes

>I
>almost always prefer almost any white to any red. I think the
>reason is simply that I prefer chilled wine with spicy food.


I don't mind my red chilled ... and my reading suggests that this "room
temperature" business for a red begins in the 18th Century before
central heating ...

The average room temperature then might be 5 degrees where the wine was
stored ...


I also have an "issue" with continental white wines; I've found I *can*
drink Aussie whites ... but whatever's been added to French, and
particularly Austrian, whites upsets me terribly.


Should have made the more plain, sorry
--
Rex M F Smith

Rex M F Smith wrote:

> I don't mind my red chilled ... and my reading suggests that this "room
> temperature" business for a red begins in the 18th Century before
> central heating ...

Certainly. Few red wines benefit from being served at 75 F. Most taste
better at 60-65 F, though the bigger the wine, the warmer its serving
temperature.

>
> The average room temperature then might be 5 degrees where the wine was
> stored ...

Assuming that you refer to 5°C (afw being a group that includes we
metrically challenged USAians), I doubt that even in the 18th Century
many rooms would have been kept that cool except in the bitterest of
winters. Insulation and fire were known even back then! ;-)

>
>
> I also have an "issue" with continental white wines; I've found I *can*
> drink Aussie whites ... but whatever's been added to French, and
> particularly Austrian, whites upsets me terribly.

"Added"?? Nothing but grapes and yeast -- and in some cases sugar,
which gets fermented to alcohol by bottling time. Of course, that's
excepting the rare, dishonest winemaker. I'd guess that your problem
lies with the acidity of the wine. White wines from Europe are more
acidic than either most red wines or white wine from the New World.

Mark Lipton
wine and curry fancier

It's a matter of taste, of course, but I find a chardonnay goes best with
most Indian food. Even the rather hot stuff. Only lightly oaked, and many
might prefer an unoaked chardonnay with Indian food.

Cordially, Phil
--
################################################## #############################
Dr Phil Diamond
Department of Mathematics, University of Queensland, Brisbane,AUSTRALIA 4072.
Tel +61 7 3365 3253 Fax +61 7 3365 1477

Salut/Hi Ace,

le/on Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:28:17 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

>>Fine, but does the wine _enhance_ indian food? I don't find it does. YMMV
>
>Yes. And Yes.
>
>>>>A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice (real fruit
>
>>And I should have mentioned cider, which I find goes much better than wine,
>>especially if it's got some sweetness.
>
>Yukk. Sweet wines, fruit juices or cider seem to me exactly the sort
>of thing that would competely kill a good curry or other spicy food.
>YMOV.

How odd, because there is a long and strong tradition in India to serve
fruit juice - often very sweet - with their meals, and equally, in East
Africa, it's common to serve side dishes, some of which are sweet. Equally,
many chutneys are sweet. So the experience of many is that sweet elements do
no harm to curry.
>>>>The other question is the mirror image. "Will the dish taste better for being
>>>>matched with this wine?". Again if the answer is "no" then it's NOT a good
>>>>match.
>>>
>>>Exactly, but I find that there are a great many wines where the answer
>>>here is in fact 'yes'.
>>
>>Then I would suggest that either the indian dishes you're seeking to match
>>aren't very typically "indian" as found in "indian" restaurants throughout
>>the UK
>
>These are exactly the types of dishes I'm talking about, yes. Plus
>those that we cook at home, where we're often trying to mimic the
>former in any case.

Well the indian dishes I cook at home are most certainly NOT trying to ape
Indian Restaurant cooking. But that's hair splitting.

>>or your criteria for "enhancing" are not mine.
>>
>>>Basically, it's all simply a matter of taste,
>>
>>Yes, I think that's fair, though I'd prefer to insert 'educated' between
>>'of' and 'taste'.
>
>So you haven't yet educated your taste to the same level as mine then?
>Works both ways, you see ;-)

Not really.

>>Why? Is the shared experience of many generations of wine lovers not worth
>>consideration? I am always happy to listen to what others have to say about
>>food/wine marriages, despite having made it a hobby for 30 odd years.
>
>"Happy to listen" seems, however, to translate in your case to "listen
>with a condescending ear and tell them they're wrong if they disagree
>with me". Just the way you come across, perhaps.

I don't listen with a condescending ear, and I am sorry if it comes across
that way. However I've had enough wines with curries over 30/40 years to
know that _I_ have yet to find a marriage that is better than "OK, I
suppose". So I listen - or read with interest, but I'm not going to say that
I think something is so when I have found the exact opposite.

>So you're basically saying you know best and anyone else's opinion is
>worth diddly squat.

I've not said that. I think I shall drop out of this thread, as we seem to
be unable to find any common ground at all.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Ace,

le/on Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:28:17 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

>>Fine, but does the wine _enhance_ indian food? I don't find it does. YMMV
>
>Yes. And Yes.
>
>>>>A much better choice would be beer, and better yet fruit juice (real fruit
>
>>And I should have mentioned cider, which I find goes much better than wine,
>>especially if it's got some sweetness.
>
>Yukk. Sweet wines, fruit juices or cider seem to me exactly the sort
>of thing that would competely kill a good curry or other spicy food.
>YMOV.

How odd, because there is a long and strong tradition in India to serve
fruit juice - often very sweet - with their meals, and equally, in East
Africa, it's common to serve side dishes, some of which are sweet. Equally,
many chutneys are sweet. So the experience of many is that sweet elements do
no harm to curry.
>>>>The other question is the mirror image. "Will the dish taste better for being
>>>>matched with this wine?". Again if the answer is "no" then it's NOT a good
>>>>match.
>>>
>>>Exactly, but I find that there are a great many wines where the answer
>>>here is in fact 'yes'.
>>
>>Then I would suggest that either the indian dishes you're seeking to match
>>aren't very typically "indian" as found in "indian" restaurants throughout
>>the UK
>
>These are exactly the types of dishes I'm talking about, yes. Plus
>those that we cook at home, where we're often trying to mimic the
>former in any case.

Well the indian dishes I cook at home are most certainly NOT trying to ape
Indian Restaurant cooking. But that's hair splitting.

>>or your criteria for "enhancing" are not mine.
>>
>>>Basically, it's all simply a matter of taste,
>>
>>Yes, I think that's fair, though I'd prefer to insert 'educated' between
>>'of' and 'taste'.
>
>So you haven't yet educated your taste to the same level as mine then?
>Works both ways, you see ;-)

Not really.

>>Why? Is the shared experience of many generations of wine lovers not worth
>>consideration? I am always happy to listen to what others have to say about
>>food/wine marriages, despite having made it a hobby for 30 odd years.
>
>"Happy to listen" seems, however, to translate in your case to "listen
>with a condescending ear and tell them they're wrong if they disagree
>with me". Just the way you come across, perhaps.

I don't listen with a condescending ear, and I am sorry if it comes across
that way. However I've had enough wines with curries over 30/40 years to
know that _I_ have yet to find a marriage that is better than "OK, I
suppose". So I listen - or read with interest, but I'm not going to say that
I think something is so when I have found the exact opposite.

>So you're basically saying you know best and anyone else's opinion is
>worth diddly squat.

I've not said that. I think I shall drop out of this thread, as we seem to
be unable to find any common ground at all.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Count me in with those that think:
1) Beer works better with wine with most curries
2) White wine is less likely to clash badly with curries than red
3) a touch of sweetness - off-dry, not dessert level- can help a lot with
hotter curries.So can bubbles.

These are all conventional wisdom. One area I differ is with CW is the tendency
to proffer
Gewurztraminer as the fall-back white. I find Gewurz works well with some Asian
dishes, especially SE Asian, but not so well with curries. I tend to look more
towards Qba & Kabinett level German Rieslings, Alsace Pinot Gris, sec-tendre or
demi-sec Chenin, etc. A bubbly with a little sweetness would be a good thing to
try with a hotter curry, if you don't like beer. The only time I could see red
really would be with something like a fairly mild lamb curry.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Count me in with those that think:
1) Beer works better with wine with most curries
2) White wine is less likely to clash badly with curries than red
3) a touch of sweetness - off-dry, not dessert level- can help a lot with
hotter curries.So can bubbles.

These are all conventional wisdom. One area I differ is with CW is the tendency
to proffer
Gewurztraminer as the fall-back white. I find Gewurz works well with some Asian
dishes, especially SE Asian, but not so well with curries. I tend to look more
towards Qba & Kabinett level German Rieslings, Alsace Pinot Gris, sec-tendre or
demi-sec Chenin, etc. A bubbly with a little sweetness would be a good thing to
try with a hotter curry, if you don't like beer. The only time I could see red
really would be with something like a fairly mild lamb curry.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
amnspam (Dale Williams) writes:

> Beer works better with wine with most curries

that should of course read "beer works better THAN wine with most curries".
Sorry

As a musing, has anyone ever tried a lightly chilled Beaujolais or lighter
Loire red with curry?
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >,
amnspam (Dale Williams) writes:

> Beer works better with wine with most curries

that should of course read "beer works better THAN wine with most curries".
Sorry

As a musing, has anyone ever tried a lightly chilled Beaujolais or lighter
Loire red with curry?
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>As a musing, has anyone ever tried a lightly chilled Beaujolais or lighter
>Loire red with curry?

I had an inexpensive Chinon, slightly chilled, with Tandoori food in London
recently and it didn't work. The spice, particularly the cumin, made the wine
taste bitter. A demi-sec Haut-Lieu Vouvray was a better match.
Bi!!

>As a musing, has anyone ever tried a lightly chilled Beaujolais or lighter
>Loire red with curry?

I had an inexpensive Chinon, slightly chilled, with Tandoori food in London
recently and it didn't work. The spice, particularly the cumin, made the wine
taste bitter. A demi-sec Haut-Lieu Vouvray was a better match.
Bi!!

Dale Williams wrote:

What's interesting to me is the combination of ...

> 1) Beer works better with wine with most curries

.... with the this ...

> 2) White wine is less likely to clash badly with curries than red
> 3) a touch of sweetness - off-dry, not dessert level- can help a lot with
> hotter curries.So can bubbles.

Now when I think of beers that I like with curries I think decidedly NOT
sweet -- IPAs are my beverage of choice for restaurant/curbside indian
food. And yet as Ian says, there's a distinguished tradition of sweet
drinks being served with these foods. I guess the fact that both works
is interesting to me. My personal opinion is that bitter works better
than sweet, but I don't know how popular my taste is.

-- kov

Dale Williams wrote:

What's interesting to me is the combination of ...

> 1) Beer works better with wine with most curries

.... with the this ...

> 2) White wine is less likely to clash badly with curries than red
> 3) a touch of sweetness - off-dry, not dessert level- can help a lot with
> hotter curries.So can bubbles.

Now when I think of beers that I like with curries I think decidedly NOT
sweet -- IPAs are my beverage of choice for restaurant/curbside indian
food. And yet as Ian says, there's a distinguished tradition of sweet
drinks being served with these foods. I guess the fact that both works
is interesting to me. My personal opinion is that bitter works better
than sweet, but I don't know how popular my taste is.

-- kov

>I had an inexpensive Chinon, slightly chilled, with Tandoori food in London
>recently and it didn't work. The spice, particularly the cumin, made the wine
>taste bitter. A demi-sec Haut-Lieu Vouvray was a better match.


Who made the Haut-Lieu? I'm trying to get my hands on some '02 Huet demi-secs.

I wonder if same reaction would happen with a Touraine based on Gamay.
Sometimes it seems to be that these reactions to spices with reds seem
proportionate to tannins, though tannins tend to be more about mouthfeel than
flavors.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>I had an inexpensive Chinon, slightly chilled, with Tandoori food in London
>recently and it didn't work. The spice, particularly the cumin, made the wine
>taste bitter. A demi-sec Haut-Lieu Vouvray was a better match.


Who made the Haut-Lieu? I'm trying to get my hands on some '02 Huet demi-secs.

I wonder if same reaction would happen with a Touraine based on Gamay.
Sometimes it seems to be that these reactions to spices with reds seem
proportionate to tannins, though tannins tend to be more about mouthfeel than
flavors.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> amnspam (Dale Williams) writes:
>
> > Beer works better with wine with most curries
>
> that should of course read "beer works better THAN wine with most
curries".
> Sorry
>
> As a musing, has anyone ever tried a lightly chilled Beaujolais or lighter
> Loire red with curry?
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

From Australia, Brown Brothers Dolcetto and Syrah is a legendary match for
curries. It's normally served chilled.

One of the best food matches I've ever had was Chain of Ponds Novello Nero
Grenache Barbera Sangiovese with tandoori. In general, I find that grenache
works well with spicy food.

Kieran

>
>Who made the Haut-Lieu? I'm trying to get my hands on some '02 Huet
>demi-secs.

It was the '02 Huet. I bought a case just prior to my trip to Europe and was
pleasantly surprised to see it on the wine list. In my haste I forgot to post
the vintage and maker, sorry.
Bi!!

>
>Who made the Haut-Lieu? I'm trying to get my hands on some '02 Huet
>demi-secs.

It was the '02 Huet. I bought a case just prior to my trip to Europe and was
pleasantly surprised to see it on the wine list. In my haste I forgot to post
the vintage and maker, sorry.
Bi!!

>t was the '02 Huet. I bought a case just prior to my trip to Europe and was
>pleasantly surprised to see it on the wine list.

Lucky man! The '02 Huet demi-secs are getting hard to find. I had the Le Mont a
few months ago, excellent (though obvious infanticide). I'm going to try and
pick up some tonight when in city.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>>t was the '02 Huet. I bought a case just prior to my trip to Europe and was
>>pleasantly surprised to see it on the wine list.
>
>Lucky man! The '02 Huet demi-secs are getting hard to find. I had the Le Mont
>a
>few months ago, excellent (though obvious infanticide). I'm going to try and
>pick up some tonight when in city.
>
>Dale
>
To be honest it was easy to find. Here in Columbus, Ohio folks haven't caught
on to the Loire wines yet (or Alsace for that matter) so I had it at a store
tasting and bought a case. The distributor had a number of cases. FWIW, I
thought that the "demi -sec" was drier than it's sec counterpart.
Bi!!