It has been apparent to me for a long time that capitalization of the
names of grape varieties and wines that are named after them is highly
inconsistent. I'm even inconsistent about it myself. Should it be,
say, Chardonnay or chardonnay? Having grown up in Mississippi where
any kind of alcoholic beverage was believed to be made by the devil
himself, this was obviously not a topic covered in public school
textbooks.

Is there any authoritative source on this matter that anyone knows
about?

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

i AM ALL FOR STANDARDIZATION. dALE

Seriously, I'm totally inconsistent. But if I had to give a rule, I'd say one
does not capitalize grape names, but does capitalize grape names when used as a
varietal name on label:
Chablis is made from chardonnay. I like unoaked chardonnay. Pass the Montelena
Chardonnay.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"Vino" > wrote in message
...
> It has been apparent to me for a long time that capitalization of the
> names of grape varieties and wines that are named after them is highly
> inconsistent. I'm even inconsistent about it myself. Should it be,
> say, Chardonnay or chardonnay? Having grown up in Mississippi where
> any kind of alcoholic beverage was believed to be made by the devil
> himself, this was obviously not a topic covered in public school
> textbooks.

Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. For that matter,
the Devil should be in caps if you are referring to Lucifer. ;^D

Tom S

"Tom S" > skrev i melding
...
>
>
> Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
> therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. ...
Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
Anders

>Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
>capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
>Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
>Anders

Anders,

a proper adjective (adjective formed by a proper noun) is capitalized.

Tom,

you're probably right. A quick google on chardonnay capitalization led to many
opinions on the neccessity for having lots of cash in hand when starting a
winery, and a couple references :
http://www.editorsforum.org/forum_in..._cookbook.html
and the French Champagne association, neither of which capitalize. But the pdfs
on the UC-Davis site do- well, kinda. Interestingly, they use Cabernet
Sauvignon, Chardonnay, and Riesling. But they use Pinot noir, Sauvignon blanc,
and Chenin blanc.

Just thinking about it, I would call grape varieties proper nouns. But think
I'll continue my inconsistency.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Dale Williams wrote:

> Just thinking about it, I would call grape varieties proper nouns. But think
> I'll continue my inconsistency.

Funny thing, Dale: when initiating the Viognier thread, I actually sat
and asked myself whether the name should be capitalized. I came to the
decision that it was a proper name and hence should be. FWIW, my litmus
test for proper nouns is whether they take an article. Do you say "I
drink Chardonnay" or "I drink the chardonnay"? Of course, collective
nouns can get you into trouble, but few tests are foolproof ;-)

Mark Lipton

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:39:50 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Dale Williams wrote:
>
>> Just thinking about it, I would call grape varieties proper nouns. But think
>> I'll continue my inconsistency.
>
>Funny thing, Dale: when initiating the Viognier thread, I actually sat
>and asked myself whether the name should be capitalized. I came to the
>decision that it was a proper name and hence should be. FWIW, my litmus
>test for proper nouns is whether they take an article. Do you say "I
>drink Chardonnay" or "I drink the chardonnay"? Of course, collective
>nouns can get you into trouble, but few tests are foolproof ;-)

The usual definition for proper nouns is that they are names given to
unique entities. Personally I think it is pushing the rule a bit to
say that a *type* of grape is a unique entity, but I guess there are
precendents in other horticultural areas and, regardless, an initial
cap does seem to be common usage.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

"Dale Williams" > skrev i melding
...
> >Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
> >capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
> >Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
> >Anders
>
> Anders,
>
> a proper adjective (adjective formed by a proper noun) is capitalized.
>
Thanks.
It is different in Scandinavian, you see. Neither Chardonnay nor American
would be capitalized - only what I have to call 'own names' - for individual
objects, like Christian names or, say, city names.
Germany on the other hand capitalizes all nouns, but not adjectives (right,
Michael?)

So, capitalizing adjectives looks funny to me
:-) Anders

I note that the NY Times stylebook must advocate non-capitalization, as today's
article on American bubblies doesn't capitalize pinot noir or chardonnay.

A quick check shows Karen McNeil's Wine Bible doesn't capitalize, but Andrea
Immer does.

Sounds like war.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Vino > wrote in message >. ..
> It has been apparent to me for a long time that capitalization of the
> names of grape varieties and wines that are named after them is highly
> inconsistent. I'm even inconsistent about it myself. Should it be,
> say, Chardonnay or chardonnay? Having grown up in Mississippi where
> any kind of alcoholic beverage was believed to be made by the devil
> himself, this was obviously not a topic covered in public school
> textbooks.
>
> Is there any authoritative source on this matter that anyone knows
> about?

Here's a journalist's perspective:

According to The Associated Press Stylebook, a grape variety (among
other plant species) would not be capitalized unless the origin of the
word is a proper noun. For example, cabernet sauvignon and merlot
wouldn't be capitalized but Muller-Thurgau and Ehrenfelser would.

So that is what you would see in a newspaper. Most wine magazines,
however, have adopted an alternative style, which is to capitalize
wine grape varieties as proper nouns. But that isn't always consistent
from magazine to magazine.

For example, my magazine capitalizes all grape varieties, yet another
magazine I write a wine column for insists on researching the origins
of the name to see if it's rooted in a proper noun. Therefore, in that
magazine, "merlot" will be lowercase but "Syrah" will be uppercase
(based on the myth that the grape may have come from Egypt through the
Sicilian city of Syracusa).

I think this style must be confusing to the reader, and since clarity
is one of the goals of writing, then consistency (one way or the
other) is preferred.

Andy Perdue, editor
Wine Press Northwest
http://www.winepressnw.com

On 23 Jun 2004 21:34:26 -0700, (Andy Perdue)
wrote:

>According to The Associated Press Stylebook, a grape variety (among
>other plant species) would not be capitalized unless the origin of the
>word is a proper noun. For example, cabernet sauvignon and merlot
>wouldn't be capitalized but Muller-Thurgau and Ehrenfelser would.

So what would they recommend for Chardonnay I wonder?

My understanding is that there are competing theories about whether
the grape variety or the village came first. Any capitalisation rule
that requires detailed knowledge of etymology seems doomed to failure.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 24 Jun 2004 02:27:12 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams)
wrote:

>I note that the NY Times stylebook must advocate non-capitalization, as today's
>article on American bubblies doesn't capitalize pinot noir or chardonnay.
>
>A quick check shows Karen McNeil's Wine Bible doesn't capitalize, but Andrea
>Immer does.

Just done a quick check through my library, with authors/editors Hugh
Johnson, Jancis Robinson, Clive Coates, Anthony Hanson, and pubishers
Mitchell Beazley (which must be quite influential), Oxford and Cassel.
All use intial caps.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Andy Perdue wrote:
> According to The Associated Press Stylebook, a grape variety (among
> other plant species) would not be capitalized unless the origin of the
> word is a proper noun. For example, cabernet sauvignon and merlot
> wouldn't be capitalized but Muller-Thurgau and Ehrenfelser would.

> For example, my magazine capitalizes all grape varieties, yet another
> magazine I write a wine column for insists on researching the origins
> of the name to see if it's rooted in a proper noun. Therefore, in that
> magazine, "merlot" will be lowercase but "Syrah" will be uppercase
> (based on the myth that the grape may have come from Egypt through the
> Sicilian city of Syracusa).

> Andy Perdue, editor
> Wine Press Northwest
> http://www.winepressnw.com

Andy, since you have a vested interest in where this is going, I propose
that you choose a style for our news group to use and maybe we can
influence all those confused people out there in the print world.
Bill

(Andy Perdue) wrote in
m:

> Vino > wrote in message
> >. ..
>
I'm even inconsistent about it myself. Should it
>> be, say, Chardonnay or chardonnay?
>
> Here's a journalist's perspective:
>
> According to The Associated Press Stylebook, a grape variety (among
> other plant species) would not be capitalized unless the origin of the
> word is a proper noun.
Therefore Chardonnay after the commune in France?

: Here's a journalist's perspective:


: For example, my magazine capitalizes all grape varieties, yet another
: magazine I write a wine column for insists on researching the origins
: of the name to see if it's rooted in a proper noun. Therefore, in that
: magazine, "merlot" will be lowercase but "Syrah" will be uppercase
: (based on the myth that the grape may have come from Egypt through the
: Sicilian city of Syracusa).

So I guess Chardonnay would be capitalized since it *may* have
once-upon-a-time originated from near the actual French village of
Chardonnay??

I say, "Why can't we all just get along?"

Mark S

Salut/Hi >,

le/on 24 Jun 2004 12:31:31 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

> So I guess Chardonnay would be capitalized since it *may* have
>once-upon-a-time originated from near the actual French village of
>Chardonnay??
>
>I say, "Why can't we all just get along?"

We can!! But we can still have different opinions as to what would be
correct usage.

I'm totally confused. If pressed, I'd suggest that the cepage would _not_ be
capitalised, if it were being described as a component of a wine. "Red
Burgundy is usually made from the pinot noir". However, when describing the
cepage for itself, I'd capitalise it. "The Pinot Noir is a difficult vine to
grow". However, I noticed that when I was trying to type the grape name in
the first example, my instinct was to try to capitalise it. Sigh.

As for the business of capitalising the grape if it takes the name of a
person or a village, I really couldn't bring myself to type "White Burgundy
is made from the Chardonnay, while red Burgundy is made from pinot noir." or
"the best Rheingau wines are made from riesling, and fortunately little
Muller-Thurgau is found there."


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian Hoare > wrote in message news:

> As for the business of capitalising the grape if it takes the name of a
> person or a village, I really couldn't bring myself to type "White Burgundy
> is made from the Chardonnay, while red Burgundy is made from pinot noir." or
> "the best Rheingau wines are made from riesling, and fortunately little
> Muller-Thurgau is found there."

I'm with you. Consistency is key, especially within a single
paragraph. My partner and I argued this for a while before deciding
to capitalize all wine varietals on our website. My final theory
being: I love this stuff, let's give it some respect. Totally
without grammatical value, but what the heck.

e. winemonger
www.winemonger.com

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message news:
> > Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
> > therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. ...
> Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
> capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
> Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
> Anders

Or how about "Southern California"? Also here in the States we refer
to a few regions such as "the South" and "New England." What to do?

e. winemonger
www.winemonger.com

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> Germany on the other hand capitalizes all nouns, but not
> adjectives (right, Michael?)

In principle yes, but derived adjectives that finish on -er are
capitalized, as in Kremser Wein, Wachauer Wein. (Those ending on
-isch are not, however, as in rheinische Weine.)

M.

"Ian Hoare" shared his thoughts thus......
>
> We can!! But we can still have different opinions as to what would be
> correct usage.
>
> I'm totally confused. If pressed, I'd suggest that the cepage would _not_
> be capitalised, if it were being described as a component of a wine.
> "Red Burgundy is usually made from the pinot noir".
>
> However, when describing the cepage for itself, I'd capitalise it.
>
> "The Pinot Noir is a difficult vine to grow".
>
>However, I noticed that when I was trying to type the grape name in
> the first example, my instinct was to try to capitalise it. Sigh.
>
> As for the business of capitalising the grape if it takes the name of a
> person or a village, I really couldn't bring myself to type "White
> Burgundy is made from the Chardonnay, while red Burgundy
> is made from pinot noir." or
> "the best Rheingau wines are made from riesling, and fortunately little
> Muller-Thurgau is found there."


I, myself, was a shocking English student, so I have kept my ignorance on
this subject to myself, until this point.

That said, I have visited many vineyards which have planted chardonnay, or
riesling or pinot noir - but offer most pleasant <Estate name> Chardonnay
or Riesling or Pinot Noir.

To me, White Burgundy is made from chardonnay - but I really love my
Wither Hills Sauvignon Blanc !

Go figure !!!!

---
st.helier (the grammatically challenged !!!!!)

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:06:35 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
>therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. For that matter,
>the Devil should be in caps if you are referring to Lucifer. ;^D

I guess the fact that grape names are not translated into English (and
not italicised either to indicate a foreign word) is an indication
that they are proper nouns.

Sure, some countries and regions have their own names for grapes,
which very occasionally amount to a translation, e.g. Pinot Grigio and
Pinot Gris, but you never hear of "black pinot", "grey pinot" or
"white muscat with little grapes".

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

In article >,
says...
>
>
>"Tom S" > skrev i melding
.. .
>>
>>
>> Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
>> therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. ...
>Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
>capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
>Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
>Anders

Yes. And I agree with Ton S on the proper noun capitalization in the varietal
names, though many fine wine writers do not ascribe to that feeling. I do not
hold anything against them for it and greatly enjoy their writings on the
subject.

And yes, it's the Devil, even in Mississippi.

Hunt

In article >,
says...
>
>"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message news:
>> > Of _course_ it was - in English class! Grape names are proper nouns, and
>> > therefore capitalized. Place names are also capitalized. ...
>> Which leads me to ask the linguists of this group: Is it correct to
>> capitalize, like I see most often here, words like American, English or
>> Norwegian? These are not nouns, imho.
>> Anders
>
>Or how about "Southern California"? Also here in the States we refer
>to a few regions such as "the South" and "New England." What to do?
>
>e. winemonger
>www.winemonger.com

With out my Strunk and White at hand, experience dictates to me, at least,
that "I travel south," but "I travel to the South." Same for Southern
California.

Hunt

In article >, .
says...
>
>"Ian Hoare" shared his thoughts thus......
>>
>> We can!! But we can still have different opinions as to what would be
>> correct usage.
>>
>> I'm totally confused. If pressed, I'd suggest that the cepage would _not_
>> be capitalised, if it were being described as a component of a wine.
>> "Red Burgundy is usually made from the pinot noir".
>>
>> However, when describing the cepage for itself, I'd capitalise it.
>>
>> "The Pinot Noir is a difficult vine to grow".
>>
>>However, I noticed that when I was trying to type the grape name in
>> the first example, my instinct was to try to capitalise it. Sigh.
>>
>> As for the business of capitalising the grape if it takes the name of a
>> person or a village, I really couldn't bring myself to type "White
>> Burgundy is made from the Chardonnay, while red Burgundy
>> is made from pinot noir." or
>> "the best Rheingau wines are made from riesling, and fortunately little
>> Muller-Thurgau is found there."
>
>
>I, myself, was a shocking English student, so I have kept my ignorance on
>this subject to myself, until this point.
>
>That said, I have visited many vineyards which have planted chardonnay, or
>riesling or pinot noir - but offer most pleasant <Estate name> Chardonnay
>or Riesling or Pinot Noir.
>
>To me, White Burgundy is made from chardonnay - but I really love my
>Wither Hills Sauvignon Blanc !
>
>Go figure !!!!
>
>---
>st.helier (the grammatically challenged !!!!!)

A question on the above examples - why did you capitalize "White" in White
Burgundy? Same question would, of course, apply to Red Burgundy. I'd type
white Burgundy, but that may just be a product of an education in the South!

Hunt
>
>

Salut/Hi Hunt,

le/on 26 Jun 2004 16:46:40 GMT, tu disais/you said:-


>>> As for the business of capitalising the grape if it takes the name of a
>>> person or a village, I really couldn't bring myself to type "White
>>> Burgundy is made from the Chardonnay, while red Burgundy

>>To me, White Burgundy is made from chardonnay - but I really love my
>>Wither Hills Sauvignon Blanc !
>>
>>Go figure !!!!
>>
>>---
>>st.helier (the grammatically challenged !!!!!)

>A question on the above examples - why did you capitalize "White" in White
>Burgundy? Same question would, of course, apply to Red Burgundy.

Feels right. No really logical reason, except that it's sort of a name.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website