Hi,
We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
is budget priced boxed wines:

Peter Vella
5l Boxed Wines – Gallo

Burgundy
Cabernet Sauvignon
Merlot
Chablis
Chardonnay
White Grenache
White Zinfandel

We are looking at the following options:
Livingston
1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Gallo

Chablis Blanc
Chardonnay
French Colombard
Rhine
Blush Chablis
Red Rosé
White Zinfandel
Burgundy
Cabernet Sauvignon
Chianti
Merlot

Almaden
5l Boxed Wines – Canandaigua

Blush Chablis
Cabernet Sauvignon
Chardonnay
Golden Chablis
Merlot
Mountain Burgundy
Mountain Chablis
Mountain Rhine
White Grenache
White Zinfandel

Almaden
1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Canandaigua

Blush Chablis
Cabernet Sauvignon
Chardonnay
Golden Chablis
Merlot
Mountain Burgundy
Mountain Chablis
Mountain Rhine
White Grenache
White Zinfandel
Chenin Blanc
Chianti*
Emerald Riesling*
French Colombard*
Mountain Rosé

*1.5l only

Personally, I'd like to move away from the boxed wines altogether. I'd
prefer the 1.5 and 3 l bottles (choose size by popularity of the
product) for a faster turnover and better variety. I don't know much
about wine. I know this cafe sells about 20-25l of wine per week by the
glass and 1/2 l carafes. I know none of the wines listed are good wines
and to connoisseurs, this is an insulting selection. This is not that
kind of place...

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

sailing fan > wrote in :

> Hi,
> We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our
changes.
> One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they
serve
> is budget priced boxed wines:
>

I would not touch anything resembling a European wine name from a US
producer Blush Chablis!?! not in any stretch Chablis is made from white
grapes for goodness sake. The so called mountain burgundy may be an
exception, i actually drank that stuff once.

French Colombard? please, no


I would try offering a small but better selection (when I go to non wine
drining places I look for a few not bad wines rather than a selection of
dreck. Non wine drinkers don't really care so . .

a fair Chianti Try for a cheap but really Italian one like Placido
a fair Chard.
a fair Cab. S.
a fair Merlot
a white zin because that is what you will sell
the Chenin because I am always hopefull for a cheap drinkable chenin.

I truly believe that you will not hurt yourself and may actually get
some real wine drinkers if you slowly tweak in some "real" wines.

sailing fan wrote:
> Hi,
> We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
> One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
> is budget priced boxed wines:


I think that after you have had two or three of those 1.5L bottles
sitting around open for a week, you will realize the value of the boxes.

There are better boxes available. You might look at what the Australians
offer.

Where is the Cafe'

Country, State, City?


"sailing fan" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
> One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
> is budget priced boxed wines:
>
> Peter Vella
> 5l Boxed Wines – Gallo
>
> Burgundy
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Merlot
> Chablis
> Chardonnay
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
>
> We are looking at the following options:
> Livingston
> 1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Gallo
>
> Chablis Blanc
> Chardonnay
> French Colombard
> Rhine
> Blush Chablis
> Red Rosé
> White Zinfandel
> Burgundy
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chianti
> Merlot
>
> Almaden
> 5l Boxed Wines – Canandaigua
>
> Blush Chablis
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chardonnay
> Golden Chablis
> Merlot
> Mountain Burgundy
> Mountain Chablis
> Mountain Rhine
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
>
> Almaden
> 1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Canandaigua
>
> Blush Chablis
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chardonnay
> Golden Chablis
> Merlot
> Mountain Burgundy
> Mountain Chablis
> Mountain Rhine
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
> Chenin Blanc
> Chianti*
> Emerald Riesling*
> French Colombard*
> Mountain Rosé
>
> *1.5l only
>
> Personally, I'd like to move away from the boxed wines altogether. I'd
> prefer the 1.5 and 3 l bottles (choose size by popularity of the
> product) for a faster turnover and better variety. I don't know much
> about wine. I know this cafe sells about 20-25l of wine per week by the
> glass and 1/2 l carafes. I know none of the wines listed are good wines
> and to connoisseurs, this is an insulting selection. This is not that
> kind of place...
>
> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>

And Chile, there's some good stuff there in boxes.

"Bill" > wrote in message
...
> sailing fan wrote:
> > Hi,
> > We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> > great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> > food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> > plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
> > One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
> > is budget priced boxed wines:
>
>
> I think that after you have had two or three of those 1.5L bottles
> sitting around open for a week, you will realize the value of the boxes.
>
> There are better boxes available. You might look at what the Australians
> offer.
>

"sailing fan" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
> One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
> is budget priced boxed wines:
Up a bit in price, but Hardy's (Australia) has some 3 liter box wines that
will keep well, and taste considerably better than anything you have listed.
We do use the Almaden Rhine for cooking, and the Red Sangria for a low price
drinking wine, but the Hardy is much better. In SE Virginia, it goes for
about $14 to 15 for 3 liters. The Almaden Cab was so bad that we trashed
the rest of it after a few sips from the first glass.
From what you describe, I'd leave off the bottled 1.5 and 3 liter (since it
won't keep well after opening), and maybe keep a modest selection of 750ml
and even a few 375ml wines in a bit better category - to be sold by the
bottle to any of your customers that want something a bit better.
I've also seen another 3 liter boxed wine on this forum, but not found it
locally, that people spoke well of. Can't remember the name right now, maybe
someone elxe will pop in with a recommendation.

Jim

Although not boxed, Carlo Rossi Cab is Ok.

sailing fan wrote:
> Hi,
> We are in the process of buying a cafe (that is doing OK, but not
> great) that serves lunch and dinner, beer and wine. The food is simple
> food, but slightly elegant. Rather than make huge changes at once, we
> plan to "tweak" a little here and there over time making all our changes.
> One thing we'd like to tinker with is the wine. Right now all they serve
> is budget priced boxed wines:
>
> Peter Vella
> 5l Boxed Wines – Gallo
>
> Burgundy
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Merlot
> Chablis
> Chardonnay
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
>
> We are looking at the following options:
> Livingston
> 1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Gallo
>
> Chablis Blanc
> Chardonnay
> French Colombard
> Rhine
> Blush Chablis
> Red Rosé
> White Zinfandel
> Burgundy
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chianti
> Merlot
>
> Almaden
> 5l Boxed Wines – Canandaigua
>
> Blush Chablis
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chardonnay
> Golden Chablis
> Merlot
> Mountain Burgundy
> Mountain Chablis
> Mountain Rhine
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
>
> Almaden
> 1.5 & 3l Bottled Wines – Canandaigua
>
> Blush Chablis
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chardonnay
> Golden Chablis
> Merlot
> Mountain Burgundy
> Mountain Chablis
> Mountain Rhine
> White Grenache
> White Zinfandel
> Chenin Blanc
> Chianti*
> Emerald Riesling*
> French Colombard*
> Mountain Rosé
>
> *1.5l only
>
> Personally, I'd like to move away from the boxed wines altogether. I'd
> prefer the 1.5 and 3 l bottles (choose size by popularity of the
> product) for a faster turnover and better variety. I don't know much
> about wine. I know this cafe sells about 20-25l of wine per week by the
> glass and 1/2 l carafes. I know none of the wines listed are good wines
> and to connoisseurs, this is an insulting selection. This is not that
> kind of place...
>
> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
>

USA, small town between Albany and NYC.

Thanks to all for the advice... I have heard that uncorked (or uncapped)
wines have a lifespan of just a few days.

I was told by a person I know the a brand called Vendange comes in 750
ml (most varieties) and 1.5 l (all varieties), and is very cheap, but
"OK" for wine that runs about $5-8 a bottle.
I guess the advantage of the boxed products are they are air tight and
the wine will keep better.
Another boxed brand I was told of is Franzia, which I guess is bottom of
the line as well.
Thanks!

Nice area up there. I lived in Rochester for a couple years back in early
80's and used to vacation north of Albany at a dude ranch.

Wish you best of luck.


"sailing fan" > wrote in message
...
> USA, small town between Albany and NYC.
>
> Thanks to all for the advice... I have heard that uncorked (or uncapped)
> wines have a lifespan of just a few days.
>
> I was told by a person I know the a brand called Vendange comes in 750
> ml (most varieties) and 1.5 l (all varieties), and is very cheap, but
> "OK" for wine that runs about $5-8 a bottle.
> I guess the advantage of the boxed products are they are air tight and
> the wine will keep better.
> Another boxed brand I was told of is Franzia, which I guess is bottom of
> the line as well.
> Thanks!
>

As others have noted, if you're serving over several days, Bag-in-Box better
option than bottles.

Why have a 1/2 dozen choices with names that don't mean a thing? I'll try to
hold back my winegeekiness, and offer a sensible plan:

1) pick one house red and one house white (a box of Merlot and a box of
Sauvignon Blanc?). Price as you have now.
2)Then have a house "premium" wine - an Australian red, and a white- the
Brocard "Jurassic" Chardonnay is available someplaces in 3L BiB. At $4 or 5 a
glass you still make a handsome profit,and maybe benefit from an impression of
class.
3) Get some 750s of some decent wines -2 reds and 2 whites- for variety. You
pay $7 each, sell for $15-18.If you sell 1 bottle a week, in a year you sell
your case of each (which you stored in a cool place!)and help your rep.


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"BallroomDancer" > wrote in message
news:Seurc.2240$zE6.149@lakeread06...
> I've also seen another 3 liter boxed wine on this forum, but not found it
> locally, that people spoke well of. Can't remember the name right now,
maybe
> someone elxe will pop in with a recommendation.
Remembered the name: Black Box wines of California, their website is
www.blackboxwines.com
I've heard good reports on them, but haven't found them in my area.
Jim

Very sound advice. There is a certain element that seems to be fine with
the boxed Gallo wines.

I think the boxed wine will remain for a while. Their inventory records
show they purchase seven different types and while some types seem to
take 2-3 weeks to sell a single box they also sell about 40 liters of
White Zin every month, about 50% of the total wine sales. I don't know
how much ends up as "waste". If a box was opened, I would suspect that
it is going to have to be dumped in a week if not finished. If that is
not a policy, it will be when we take over.

We've decided to have a "wine tasting" at home with some friends and
family. None are exactly wine drinkers, but we figure we're going to
test Peter Vella vs. Almaden to see who has the better box in a
simplified list of what is already served:

Cabernet Sauvignon
Merlot
Chardonnay
White Zinfandel

I suspect we will make our merchant nuts. We'll probably buy one case
of four boxes for everything but the Zin, which we'll probably end up
buying two cases of per month. That's 72 liters of wine, slightly less
than what they get now.
I know he carries "several" hundred varieties. The seller told us for a
while they were offering Sutter Home in 187 ml bottles, but even at
$3.50, a bottle they sold poorly. He does keep a case of cheap Andre
Extra Dry on hand, from time to time he sells a bottle for $9. He offers
a free champagne toast on New Year's Eve, which this is perfect for.
Inventory records show he purchased two cases in 2003 and none in 2004
so far.
What scares me the most is selling a single glass for $4 out of a $15
bottle and then two days later dumping it. I believe there is a market
for wine drinkers, haven't quite yet how to grab their attention... My
initial thought in this wine called Vendange, which is a cheap varietal,
is probably a step above boxed wines. My feeling is crawl before I walk
or run.

Peter

Dale Williams wrote:
> As others have noted, if you're serving over several days, Bag-in-Box better
> option than bottles.
>
> Why have a 1/2 dozen choices with names that don't mean a thing? I'll try to
> hold back my winegeekiness, and offer a sensible plan:
>
> 1) pick one house red and one house white (a box of Merlot and a box of
> Sauvignon Blanc?). Price as you have now.
> 2)Then have a house "premium" wine - an Australian red, and a white- the
> Brocard "Jurassic" Chardonnay is available someplaces in 3L BiB. At $4 or 5 a
> glass you still make a handsome profit,and maybe benefit from an impression of
> class.
> 3) Get some 750s of some decent wines -2 reds and 2 whites- for variety. You
> pay $7 each, sell for $15-18.If you sell 1 bottle a week, in a year you sell
> your case of each (which you stored in a cool place!)and help your rep.
>
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

sailing fan wrote:
> Very sound advice. There is a certain element that seems to be fine with
> the boxed Gallo wines.

One more suggestion. Everyone knows the Gallo name and most hate it.
They drink it because of price. If you switched to some lesser known
name (like Black Box or some Australian brand) it would give the
illusion that you are offering a better wine than the very bottom.


> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Merlot
> Chardonnay
> White Zinfandel

I know White Zinfandel sells and you have to keep it, but add
a Sauvignon Blanc for people that like wine.