TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Thursday Betsy was away, David ate leftovers before I got home late from a
meeting, so I stopped and grabbed a couple slices of (unfortunately awful)
pizza. Opened a cheap regional Bordeaux, the 2001 Ch. Peyrot (Bordeaux).
Somewhat grapey nose, ponderous dark fruit on the palate. Not especially
tannic, but the tannins have a coarse edge to them. I'm not enjoying this, and
decide to dump glass and try again next night. A glass of the 2003 Leitz
Dragonstone that I had opened previous night is much better company to some old
XTC tunes.

The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea of
cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me lonely).
So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but flavorful
London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002 Clos
Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than other
recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical edge.
Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no better than
other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+

Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the tannins,
but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it. Let's
look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners,
www.ymau.com/ Oh, a Yvon Mau import. I wish I'd noticed before buying. Label
says 50% Merlot, 50% Cabernet Franc. I can see that - this tastes like a
Woodbridge Merlot mixed with a cheap Saumur (from a bad vintage). C-

Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the meat.
The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the first 2000
Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re travel shock.
The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nose of
smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderate cedary
oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+

During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong opinions,
coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when the
following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of eating
alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork BBQ" and
coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Eastern NC as
you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled myself by
opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realized it was
in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed nose,
black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral edge to
the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finish the
Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when the stuff
you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your attention (in
a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this wine. A-
*
Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching with
friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I decide the
appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo burgers on
the grill. I open the 2002 Castaño Hecula (Yecla). This is my favorite of the
Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the slightly
more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good concentration
for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little off-putting.
Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+

Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real cooking
before she leaves for concerts in Maine.
*
Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a
good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where
it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy,
and certainly not of consistency.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad as it
gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinegar,
then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato juice.

Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Thursday Betsy was away, David ate leftovers before I got home late from a
> meeting, so I stopped and grabbed a couple slices of (unfortunately awful)
> pizza. Opened a cheap regional Bordeaux, the 2001 Ch. Peyrot (Bordeaux).
> Somewhat grapey nose, ponderous dark fruit on the palate. Not especially
> tannic, but the tannins have a coarse edge to them. I'm not enjoying this,
and
> decide to dump glass and try again next night. A glass of the 2003 Leitz
> Dragonstone that I had opened previous night is much better company to
some old
> XTC tunes.
>
> The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea of
> cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me
lonely).
> So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but
flavorful
> London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002
Clos
> Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than other
> recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical
edge.
> Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no better
than
> other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+
>
> Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the
tannins,
> but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it.
Let's
> look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners,
> www.ymau.com/ Oh, a Yvon Mau import. I wish I'd noticed before buying.
Label
> says 50% Merlot, 50% Cabernet Franc. I can see that - this tastes like a
> Woodbridge Merlot mixed with a cheap Saumur (from a bad vintage). C-
>
> Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the
meat.
> The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the first
2000
> Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re travel
shock.
> The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nose
of
> smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderate
cedary
> oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+
>
> During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong
opinions,
> coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when the
> following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of eating
> alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork BBQ"
and
> coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Eastern
NC as
> you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled
myself by
> opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realized
it was
> in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed
nose,
> black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral
edge to
> the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finish
the
> Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when the
stuff
> you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your attention
(in
> a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this
wine. A-
>
> Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching with
> friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I decide
the
> appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo
burgers on
> the grill. I open the 2002 Castaño Hecula (Yecla). This is my favorite of
the
> Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the
slightly
> more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good
concentration
> for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little
off-putting.
> Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+
>
> Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real cooking
> before she leaves for concerts in Maine.
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a
> good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party
where
> it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity,
accuracy,
> and certainly not of consistency.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Michael,

I'm generally staying away from '03 futures (only ordered a couple of standbys
like Gloria and L-Barton), due to vintage concerns and currency issues. But I
will make a point of trying the Bernadotte as soon as released. The '00 is
first I've really cared for.

Dick, you ignorant slut :)

People in Charlotte shouldn't ever comment on barbecue, it's the only corner of
the state that seems to have no quality pig!

First of all, no one , even the poorest of the poor, in Eastern NC would ever
use tomato anything in their sauce.

Secondly, the sauce is totally separate, indeed almost optional. When a whole
pig is roasted, even if it's basted with a sauce, you're getting essence of
roast pig.
Everyone's sauce is different- some add sugar and some don't- I prefer the
no-sugar ones, where the sauce is a vinegar-pepper sauce.

For more info:
http://www.northcarolina.com/stories/bbq.html
And do yiou still have a son at UNC? Next visit give Allen & Son a try. Feaured
he
http://www.postcardsforyou.com/carolinabbq.html

best,
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

OK Dale you could be correct. But the sauce was pinkish and I asked at one
of the finer BBQ establishments in Raleigh and they said they used TJ in
small qty that made sauce pinkish tint.

I cannot get used to the vinegar that has always been my issue with NC BBQ.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Michael,
>
> I'm generally staying away from '03 futures (only ordered a couple of
standbys
> like Gloria and L-Barton), due to vintage concerns and currency issues.
But I
> will make a point of trying the Bernadotte as soon as released. The '00 is
> first I've really cared for.
>
> Dick, you ignorant slut :)
>
> People in Charlotte shouldn't ever comment on barbecue, it's the only
corner of
> the state that seems to have no quality pig!
>
> First of all, no one , even the poorest of the poor, in Eastern NC would
ever
> use tomato anything in their sauce.
>
> Secondly, the sauce is totally separate, indeed almost optional. When a
whole
> pig is roasted, even if it's basted with a sauce, you're getting essence
of
> roast pig.
> Everyone's sauce is different- some add sugar and some don't- I prefer the
> no-sugar ones, where the sauce is a vinegar-pepper sauce.
>
> For more info:
> http://www.northcarolina.com/stories/bbq.html
> And do yiou still have a son at UNC? Next visit give Allen & Son a try.
Feaured
> he
> http://www.postcardsforyou.com/carolinabbq.html
>
> best,
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> People in Charlotte shouldn't ever comment on barbecue, it's the only
corner of
> the state that seems to have no quality pig!
>
> First of all, no one , even the poorest of the poor, in Eastern NC would
ever
> use tomato anything in their sauce.
>
> Secondly, the sauce is totally separate, indeed almost optional. When a
whole
> pig is roasted, even if it's basted with a sauce, you're getting essence
of
> roast pig.
> Everyone's sauce is different- some add sugar and some don't- I prefer the
> no-sugar ones, where the sauce is a vinegar-pepper sauce.
If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has a
web site http://www.kingsbbq.com/, you can order from there, they will ship
it FedEx overnight!
(I am not affiliated with the company in any other way than being a very
well satisfied customer - I lived in New Bern, NC for years, about 30 miles
from Kinston. New Bern has Moore's BBQ, Greenville has Parker's. I live in
Chesapeake, VA now, and several of the men in our church make excellent ENC
style BBQ.
To get this somewhat on topic, I tend to prefer a fairly bold Cab or Shiraz
with my BBQ.
Jim

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

I cannot drink wine with the Vinegar base of this BBQ.


"BallroomDancer" > wrote in message
news:7Doqc.14652$65.4341@lakeread06...
>
> "Dale Williams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > People in Charlotte shouldn't ever comment on barbecue, it's the only
> corner of
> > the state that seems to have no quality pig!
> >
> > First of all, no one , even the poorest of the poor, in Eastern NC would
> ever
> > use tomato anything in their sauce.
> >
> > Secondly, the sauce is totally separate, indeed almost optional. When a
> whole
> > pig is roasted, even if it's basted with a sauce, you're getting essence
> of
> > roast pig.
> > Everyone's sauce is different- some add sugar and some don't- I prefer
the
> > no-sugar ones, where the sauce is a vinegar-pepper sauce.
> If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has a
> web site http://www.kingsbbq.com/, you can order from there, they will
ship
> it FedEx overnight!
> (I am not affiliated with the company in any other way than being a very
> well satisfied customer - I lived in New Bern, NC for years, about 30
miles
> from Kinston. New Bern has Moore's BBQ, Greenville has Parker's. I live in
> Chesapeake, VA now, and several of the men in our church make excellent
ENC
> style BBQ.
> To get this somewhat on topic, I tend to prefer a fairly bold Cab or
Shiraz
> with my BBQ.
> Jim
>
>

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

dick wrote:
> Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad as it
> gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinegar,
> then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato juice.
>
> Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
> Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

Oh, my, Dick! BBQ wars in afw? To me, the beauty of BBQ is the
incredible variety to be had traveling across the US. KC is as
different from Memphis as rural Alabama is from Carolina lowlands. And
then there's Texas... FWIW, some of my favorite BBQ experiences were
found traveling through Alabama and Mississippi, where it seems that the
best BBQ place was always to be found next door to the taxidermist! ;-)

Mark Lipton

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

In article <7Doqc.14652$65.4341@lakeread06>, "BallroomDancer"
> writes:

>If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has a
>web site http://www.kingsbbq.com/, you can order from there, they will ship
>it FedEx overnight!

Thanks for the tip. If my cravings overcome me (which they might!) I'll give it
a try. Betsy just spent a week doing concerts in NC, I thought about giving her
a cooler to load up, but between luggage and cello she had enough to deal with.


>To get this somewhat on topic, I tend to prefer a fairly bold Cab or Shiraz
>with my BBQ.

I could see that. My tendency is beer, though I have found off-dry Riesling to
work. In any case the secret if drinking wine is to go easy with the sauce.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

>Oh, my, Dick! BBQ wars in afw? To me, the beauty of BBQ is the
>incredible variety to be had traveling across the US. KC is as
>different from Memphis as rural Alabama is from Carolina lowlands. And
>then there's Texas... FWIW, some of my favorite BBQ experiences were
>found traveling through Alabama and Mississippi, where it seems that the
>best BBQ place was always to be found next door to the taxidermist! ;-)
>

I confess to liking most styles, even if Eastern NC BBQ is one that brings me
most memories (more college than childhood). But it's fun to tell a couple of
native Texan friends "beef brisket!?!?- that's isn't barbecue!" The only style
I usually pass on is KC when then stuff is truly drowned in sauce (more judious
KC BBQ wins my approval).

As to taxidermists, you must have been in more upscale parts of Alabama than my
grandfather - there was nothing left to stuff when they were done with game
(and no money to pay anyone anyway!).

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

I agree. Wine does not taste well with douche'

Therefore Beer is best with Carolina BBQ.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article <7Doqc.14652$65.4341@lakeread06>, "BallroomDancer"
> > writes:
>
> >If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has a
> >web site http://www.kingsbbq.com/, you can order from there, they will
ship
> >it FedEx overnight!
>
> Thanks for the tip. If my cravings overcome me (which they might!) I'll
give it
> a try. Betsy just spent a week doing concerts in NC, I thought about
giving her
> a cooler to load up, but between luggage and cello she had enough to deal
with.
>
>
> >To get this somewhat on topic, I tend to prefer a fairly bold Cab or
Shiraz
> >with my BBQ.
>
> I could see that. My tendency is beer, though I have found off-dry
Riesling to
> work. In any case the secret if drinking wine is to go easy with the
sauce.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

TN: A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Sorry, I forgot the emoticon :-(
"dick" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I agree. Wine does not taste well with douche'
>
> Therefore Beer is best with Carolina BBQ.
>
>
> "Dale Williams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <7Doqc.14652$65.4341@lakeread06>, "BallroomDancer"
> > > writes:
> >
> > >If you want to try some Eastern Carolina BBQ, King's in Kinston, NC has
a
> > >web site http://www.kingsbbq.com/, you can order from there, they will
> ship
> > >it FedEx overnight!
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. If my cravings overcome me (which they might!) I'll
> give it
> > a try. Betsy just spent a week doing concerts in NC, I thought about
> giving her
> > a cooler to load up, but between luggage and cello she had enough to
deal
> with.
> >
> >
> > >To get this somewhat on topic, I tend to prefer a fairly bold Cab or
> Shiraz
> > >with my BBQ.
> >
> > I could see that. My tendency is beer, though I have found off-dry
> Riesling to
> > work. In any case the secret if drinking wine is to go easy with the
> sauce.
> > Dale
> >
> > Dale Williams
> > Drop "damnspam" to reply
>
>

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> dick wrote:
> > Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad
as it
> > gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2
vinegar,
> > then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato
juice.
> >
> > Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
> > Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.
>
> Oh, my, Dick! BBQ wars in afw? To me, the beauty of BBQ is the
> incredible variety to be had traveling across the US. KC is as
> different from Memphis as rural Alabama is from Carolina lowlands. And
> then there's Texas... FWIW, some of my favorite BBQ experiences were
> found traveling through Alabama and Mississippi, where it seems that the
> best BBQ place was always to be found next door to the taxidermist! ;-)

Now how did I miss out on _this_ thread?

FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are
_really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job of
BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And
what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!

The farther West you go, the better BBQ gets. The best BBQ I've ever tasted
is from a little hole-in-the-wall nearby in Glendale, CA, called "Pecos
Bill's". It's been there for over 50 years, handed down from father to son.
I think they were originally from Oklahoma. Their beef is sooo tender,
juicy and smoky - utterly delicious! Great baked beans too.

Tom S

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Now wait just a minute...every one knows real BBQ is with Pork!!!!:-)



"Tom S" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > dick wrote:
> > > Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad
> as it
> > > gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2
> vinegar,
> > > then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato
> juice.
> > >
> > > Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
> > > Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.
> >
> > Oh, my, Dick! BBQ wars in afw? To me, the beauty of BBQ is the
> > incredible variety to be had traveling across the US. KC is as
> > different from Memphis as rural Alabama is from Carolina lowlands. And
> > then there's Texas... FWIW, some of my favorite BBQ experiences were
> > found traveling through Alabama and Mississippi, where it seems that the
> > best BBQ place was always to be found next door to the taxidermist! ;-)
>
> Now how did I miss out on _this_ thread?
>
> FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are
> _really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job
of
> BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And
> what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!
>
> The farther West you go, the better BBQ gets. The best BBQ I've ever
tasted
> is from a little hole-in-the-wall nearby in Glendale, CA, called "Pecos
> Bill's". It's been there for over 50 years, handed down from father to
son.
> I think they were originally from Oklahoma. Their beef is sooo tender,
> juicy and smoky - utterly delicious! Great baked beans too.
>
> Tom S
>
>

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

>FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are
>_really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job of
>BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And
>what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!
>
Not to prolong this too much, but I don't know where you were eating! Mustard
sounds like South Carolina (yet another genre). I've never actually seen dill
pickle slices on BBQ In any region). Good BBQ is never dry, but bad preparation
is possible anywhere (I had Texan BBQ once that had brisket as chewy as skirt
steak-I couldn't figure out how they managed that).

The major American regional BBQ styles I know:

North Carolina - slow-cooked pork. Meat is shredded or chopped, never sliced.
a) Eastern- pork shoulder or whole pigs, with thin sauce of vinegar with salt,
hot pepper flakes, and a little sugar. Served on plates, on on buns with a (no
mayo) coleslaw
b) Western- mostly pork shoulder, with a little tomato in the sauce (but not
enough to make it thick).

I wouldn't call South Carolina a major style, but its pork shoulder with a
vinegar, molasses, & mustard sauce.

TN/Memphis
Dry rubbed ribs.

Kansas City
Wet ribs. Thick sweet sauce.

Texas
Sliced brisket, with a red sauce (more peppery than sweet).

You can certainly find other foods BBQed in each of these areas (most NC places
also have chicken, Memphis joints do beef, Texas does lots of animals, as well
as other cuts of beef). But these are the signature dishes.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

I think the place he refers to is Maurice's BBQ.
This is the place that hit national news when he took down the American Flag
and replaced with confederate flag while the boycott of south carolina was
going on.

http://www.mauricesbbq.com/critics.htm


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> >FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are
> >_really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job
of
> >BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And
> >what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!
> >
> Not to prolong this too much, but I don't know where you were eating!
Mustard
> sounds like South Carolina (yet another genre). I've never actually seen
dill
> pickle slices on BBQ In any region). Good BBQ is never dry, but bad
preparation
> is possible anywhere (I had Texan BBQ once that had brisket as chewy as
skirt
> steak-I couldn't figure out how they managed that).
>
> The major American regional BBQ styles I know:
>
> North Carolina - slow-cooked pork. Meat is shredded or chopped, never
sliced.
> a) Eastern- pork shoulder or whole pigs, with thin sauce of vinegar with
salt,
> hot pepper flakes, and a little sugar. Served on plates, on on buns with a
(no
> mayo) coleslaw
> b) Western- mostly pork shoulder, with a little tomato in the sauce (but
not
> enough to make it thick).
>
> I wouldn't call South Carolina a major style, but its pork shoulder with a
> vinegar, molasses, & mustard sauce.
>
> TN/Memphis
> Dry rubbed ribs.
>
> Kansas City
> Wet ribs. Thick sweet sauce.
>
> Texas
> Sliced brisket, with a red sauce (more peppery than sweet).
>
> You can certainly find other foods BBQed in each of these areas (most NC
places
> also have chicken, Memphis joints do beef, Texas does lots of animals, as
well
> as other cuts of beef). But these are the signature dishes.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

Dale Williams wrote:

> The major American regional BBQ styles I know:

> North Carolina - slow-cooked pork. Meat is shredded or chopped, never sliced.
> a) Eastern- pork shoulder or whole pigs, with thin sauce of vinegar with salt,
> hot pepper flakes, and a little sugar. Served on plates, on on buns with a (no
> mayo) coleslaw
> b) Western- mostly pork shoulder, with a little tomato in the sauce (but not
> enough to make it thick).


Well Dale I tried to stay out of this but my home town is Goldsboro
NC, home of hickory smoked BBQ not that gas cooked stuff you get in
Kinston or Wilson or Rocky Mount.

But I like it all.

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

"dick" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Now wait just a minute...every one knows real BBQ is with Pork!!!!:-)

Yeah, you're right - and they also offer that, as well as spareribs.

Tom S

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> >FWIW, I agree with Dick. The folks on the Southeastern seaboard are
> >_really_ nice - but from what I've tasted they do a truly _horrible_ job
of
> >BBQ. Just what _is_ that sour, mustardy sh__ they put on it anyway? And
> >what's with the dill pickle slices? Why is the meat so dry? Bleacch!
> >
> Not to prolong this too much, but I don't know where you were eating!
Mustard
> sounds like South Carolina (yet another genre).

It was actually in Columbus, Georgia. Wasn't any better across the
Chattahoochee in Alabama either. >:^P

Tom S

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

dick > wrote:
: Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad a=
s it
: gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinega=
r,
: then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato jui=
ce.

: Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
: Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

Dick, Arkansas bbq is pretty good too, along with the Memphis style which=20
is definately *my* favorite.


: "Dale Williams" > wrote in message
: ...
:> Thursday Betsy was away, David ate leftovers before I got home late fro=
m a
:> meeting, so I stopped and grabbed a couple slices of (unfortunately awf=
ul)
:> pizza. Opened a cheap regional Bordeaux, the 2001 Ch. Peyrot (Bordeaux)=
..
:> Somewhat grapey nose, ponderous dark fruit on the palate. Not especial=
ly
:> tannic, but the tannins have a coarse edge to them. I'm not enjoying th=
is,
: and
:> decide to dump glass and try again next night. A glass of the 2003 Leit=
z
:> Dragonstone that I had opened previous night is much better company to
: some old
:> XTC tunes.
:>
:> The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea=
of
:> cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me
: lonely).
:> So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but
: flavorful
:> London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002
: Clos
:> Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than oth=
er
:> recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical
: edge.
:> Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no bette=
r
: than
:> other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+
:>
:> Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the
: tannins,
:> but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it.
: Let's
:> look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners,
:> www.ymau.com/ Oh, a Yvon Mau import. I wish I'd noticed before buying.
: Label
:> says 50% Merlot, 50% Cabernet Franc. I can see that - this tastes like =
a
:> Woodbridge Merlot mixed with a cheap Saumur (from a bad vintage). C-
:>
:> Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the
: meat.
:> The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the fi=
rst
: 2000
:> Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re trave=
l
: shock.
:> The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nos=
e
: of
:> smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderat=
e
: cedary
:> oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+
:>
:> During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong
: opinions,
:> coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when t=
he
:> following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of eat=
ing
:> alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork B=
BQ"
: and
:> coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Easte=
rn
: NC as
:> you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled
: myself by
:> opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realize=
d
: it was
:> in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed
: nose,
:> black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral
: edge to
:> the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finis=
h
: the
:> Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when t=
he
: stuff
:> you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your attent=
ion
: (in
:> a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this
: wine. A-
:>
:> Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching w=
ith
:> friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I deci=
de
: the
:> appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo
: burgers on
:> the grill. I open the 2002 Casta=F1o Hecula (Yecla). This is my favori=
te of
: the
:> Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the
: slightly
:> more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good
: concentration
:> for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little
: off-putting.
:> Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+
:>
:> Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real cook=
ing
:> before she leaves for concerts in Maine.
:>
:> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
: wine, B a
:> good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a par=
ty
: where
:> it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity,
: accuracy,
:> and certainly not of consistency.
:> Dale
:>
:> Dale Williams
:> Drop "damnspam" to reply



--=20

A few days baching (Bernadotte, Hecula, Roumier, etc)
 

Memhis/Tennessee/Ark is all about the same from my experience.

> wrote in message ...
dick > wrote:
: Dale, not to insult your upbringing but Eastern NC BBQ is about as bad as
it
: gets. Don't forget part of that sweet was a mixture that was 1/2 vinegar,
: then some water to dilute, little sugar and the poor folk add tomato
juice.

: Its positively horrible. Best BBQ in country is Mid west---Kentucky,
: Tennessee. Kansas City is great too.

Dick, Arkansas bbq is pretty good too, along with the Memphis style which
is definately *my* favorite.


: "Dale Williams" > wrote in message
: ...
:> Thursday Betsy was away, David ate leftovers before I got home late from
a
:> meeting, so I stopped and grabbed a couple slices of (unfortunately
awful)
:> pizza. Opened a cheap regional Bordeaux, the 2001 Ch. Peyrot (Bordeaux).
:> Somewhat grapey nose, ponderous dark fruit on the palate. Not especially
:> tannic, but the tannins have a coarse edge to them. I'm not enjoying
this,
: and
:> decide to dump glass and try again next night. A glass of the 2003 Leitz
:> Dragonstone that I had opened previous night is much better company to
: some old
:> XTC tunes.
:>
:> The next night David is dining with friends, and I can't stand the idea
of
:> cooking for myself (pre-Betsy I did it all the time, now it makes me
: lonely).
:> So I invite some friends over for dinner, and grill a big chewy but
: flavorful
:> London broil, along with squash. While we're grilling, we have the 2002
: Clos
:> Roche Blanche Sauvignon Blanc (Touraine). Seems fruitier/riper than other
:> recent vintages of this, lemon/citrus notes with a surprising tropical
: edge.
:> Usually I love 2002 Loires, and this is good, but to my tastes no better
: than
:> other recent vintages. Still, great QPR at $10ish. B+
:>
:> Then we give the Peyrot another shot. A day has taken the edge off the
: tannins,
:> but I still don't like. Low-acid yet with a green herbal edge to it.
: Let's
:> look at label: made by Didier Delas, selected by A. Urbini & partners,
:> www.ymau.com/ Oh, a Yvon Mau import. I wish I'd noticed before buying.
: Label
:> says 50% Merlot, 50% Cabernet Franc. I can see that - this tastes like a
:> Woodbridge Merlot mixed with a cheap Saumur (from a bad vintage). C-
:>
:> Luckily, I also decanted a 2000 Bernadotte (Haut-Medoc) to go with the
: meat.
:> The firat two times I tried this (immediately on release, one of the
first
: 2000
:> Bordeaux I tried) I was not especially impressed, and wondered re travel
: shock.
:> The bottles since have been delightful for a $15 Bordeaux. Aromatic nose
: of
:> smoke, cherries,and cedar. Good red fruit and balanced acidity, moderate
: cedary
:> oak and some tobacco notes. Nice finish. B+
:>
:> During dinner we had a discussion of BBQ (as a NC boy I had strong
: opinions,
:> coming down in favor of the Eastern NC style of pulled pork). So when the
:> following night at 8 pm I found myself again facing the prospect of
eating
:> alone, I decided to not cook and picked up some prepared "pulled pork
BBQ"
: and
:> coleslaw. I know, I know. Stuff was pretty dreadful - as far from Eastern
: NC as
:> you could get, a sweet-tomatoey sauce. I choked it down, and consoled
: myself by
:> opening what I thought was a 375 of 2001 Roumier. As I poured I realized
: it was
:> in fact the 2000 Roumier Chambolle-Musigny. In any case, nice perfumed
: nose,
:> black cherry and raspberry fruit, nice balance. There's a clear mineral
: edge to
:> the finish. Horrible with the so-called BBQ, so I stick to water. Finish
: the
:> Chambolle while listening to Elvis Costello and Neil Young, nice when the
: stuff
:> you're drinking and the stuff you're listening to both grab your
attention
: (in
:> a good way). I know 2000 isn't a "hot" vintage, but I really like this
: wine. A-
:>
:> Sunday Betsy's still away, but I get some socializing in by brunching
with
:> friends at an Indian place. That night David is home for dinner. I decide
: the
:> appropriate meal for male-bonding is burgers, so throw some buffalo
: burgers on
:> the grill. I open the 2002 Castaño Hecula (Yecla). This is my favorite
of
: the
:> Castano's, I like better than the slightly cheaper Monstrell or the
: slightly
:> more expensive Solanera. Big red fruit, moderate tannins. Good
: concentration
:> for the price, though there's a sweetness here I find a little
: off-putting.
:> Still, a decent burger wine, worth it's $11 tag. B/B+
:>
:> Luckily Betsy got back this AM, so I have a couple of days of real
cooking
:> before she leaves for concerts in Maine.
:>
:> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
: wine, B a
:> good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party
: where
:> it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity,
: accuracy,
:> and certainly not of consistency.
:> Dale
:>
:> Dale Williams
:> Drop "damnspam" to reply



--

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Not to prolong this too much, but I don't know where you were eating!
Mustard
> sounds like South Carolina (yet another genre). I've never actually seen
dill
> pickle slices on BBQ In any region). Good BBQ is never dry, but bad
preparation
> is possible anywhere (I had Texan BBQ once that had brisket as chewy as
skirt
> steak-I couldn't figure out how they managed that).
I'm mostly familiar with Eastern NC. I was working at an Army base on the
edge of South Carolina and Alabama, the locals invited me to have some
"real" BBQ, from southern Alabama. I told them that I had tried some BBQ in
Huntsville, Alabama. Their comment: "You mean some of that d--n Yankee BBQ?"
I figured if they thought of Huntsville as Yankees, I'd better not talk
about living in southeastern Virginia!
We went on a lot of back roads, pulled in to a place that looked like
nothing had ever been washed in years, and were served something that they
claimed was good BBQ. I couldn't get past the place itself, if they had been
rated by the NC Health Dept, they would have gotten a ZZZ rating (never saw
anything in NC but A and B).
I do know that I like BBQ from New Bern, Kinston, Goldsboro, Greenville,
Rocky Mount, and Wilson. I think I'll try your suggestion of a semi sweet
Riesling, I like those anyhow, sounds like a good combo.
Jim

More OT BBQ stuff (was Baching it)
 

one of the team names at a BBQ contest was 'Ribs For Her Pleasure'!