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White pepper in wine?
I've been on an Italian binge lately, and grabbed a few yesterday from a
local shop. Actually, I really _love_ Italian reds, and find they offer more for equivalent $$ than French wines, in general. Intrigued by the tasting notes describing "white pepper and cherries", I bought a bottle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) and opened it today. This wine has _tons_ of pepper - more than in any Chateauneuf I've ever tasted - which is where I usually expect to find pepper. The color is quite light; it could almost pass for a rosé - but it isn't. As for the cherries, I'd say they're MIA. I got to wondering at first if pepper is ever used as an infusion in wines - particularly reds - and pondering the legalities of such a thing. Also got me to thinking about cigar, cedar, anise, mint etc. and whether winemakers "tweak" their wines to include these elements. Then I recalled my own 1985 Pinot Noir (long gone) which displayed quite noticeable peppery flavor, and was definitely _not_ infused with such. I made Pinot Noir from several vintages (1983-1988), from the same block of vines in that vineyard and _only_ the 1985 had that flavor. Incidentally, like this Italian wine, it was very light in color - almost rosé. So, now I'm wondering: What conditions produce this character in a wine? Is there a correlation between color and varietal pepperiness? Is this a better question for a viticulture NG? Tom S |
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White pepper in wine?
"Tom S" > wrote in
. com: tle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) and opened > it today. > > This wine has _tons_ of pepper - more than in any Chateauneuf I've > ever tasted - which is where I usually expect to find pepper. The > color is quite light; it could almost pass for a rosé - but it isn't. > As for the cherries, I'd say they're MIA. > Interesting becasue I had a bottle of Beaucastel's Les Sinards 2001 this evening and noticed it to be quite smoth with almost no pepper! It was one of the silky CdPs |
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White pepper in wine?
jcoulter > wrote in message >.. .
> "Tom S" > wrote in > . com: > > tle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) and opened > > it today. > > > > This wine has _tons_ of pepper - more than in any Chateauneuf I've > > ever tasted - which is where I usually expect to find pepper. The > > color is quite light; it could almost pass for a rosé - but it isn't. > > As for the cherries, I'd say they're MIA. > > > > Interesting becasue I had a bottle of Beaucastel's Les Sinards 2001 this > evening and noticed it to be quite smoth with almost no pepper! It was one > of the silky CdPs In a related note, for me (and I believe it's a generally accepted characteristic) of Gruner Veltliner is white pepper. I know because I _really_ don't like the smell of white pepper so when Gruner has it, I notice it. Peter |
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White pepper in wine?
>In a related note, for me (and I believe it's a generally accepted
>characteristic) of Gruner Veltliner is white pepper. yeah, I opened this thread thinking we were talking GV! I've occasionally gotten whiffs of white pepper in CdP, but mostly I get a more generic "peppery" sense. Dale Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply |
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White pepper in wine?
"Tom S" > wrote in message . com... > I've been on an Italian binge lately, and grabbed a few yesterday from a > local shop. Actually, I really _love_ Italian reds, and find they offer > more for equivalent $$ than French wines, in general. > > Intrigued by the tasting notes describing "white pepper and cherries", I > bought a bottle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) and opened it today. > > This wine has _tons_ of pepper - more than in any Chateauneuf I've ever > tasted - which is where I usually expect to find pepper. The color is quite > light; it could almost pass for a rosé - but it isn't. As for the cherries, > I'd say they're MIA. > > I got to wondering at first if pepper is ever used as an infusion in wines - > particularly reds - and pondering the legalities of such a thing. Also got > me to thinking about cigar, cedar, anise, mint etc. and whether winemakers > "tweak" their wines to include these elements. > > Then I recalled my own 1985 Pinot Noir (long gone) which displayed quite > noticeable peppery flavor, and was definitely _not_ infused with such. I > made Pinot Noir from several vintages (1983-1988), from the same block of > vines in that vineyard and _only_ the 1985 had that flavor. Incidentally, > like this Italian wine, it was very light in color - almost rosé. > > So, now I'm wondering: What conditions produce this character in a wine? > Is there a correlation between color and varietal pepperiness? Is this a > better question for a viticulture NG? > > Tom S I have no idea what conditions produce this characteristic, but I've noticed white pepper notes in many of the petite sirahs I've had. |
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White pepper in wine?
Ciò che ha detto
Tom S ) è così interessante, che devo dire la mia: > I've been on an Italian binge lately, and grabbed a few yesterday > from a local shop. Actually, I really _love_ Italian reds, and find > they offer more for equivalent $$ than French wines, in general. > > Intrigued by the tasting notes describing "white pepper and > cherries", I bought a bottle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) > and opened it today. > > This wine has _tons_ of pepper - Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. If you find it, try also the Ruché (from Castagnole Monferrato, other minor Piedmont) that has pepper but also a lot of fruit. Luk |
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White pepper in wine?
In ,
Luk > typed: > Ciò che ha detto > Tom S ) >> Intrigued by the tasting notes describing "white pepper and >> cherries", I bought a bottle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) >> and opened it today. >> >> This wine has _tons_ of pepper - > > Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. Is it only recently that this is being grown? Having never heard of it before, I checked the indexes of all four of my Italian wine reference books; none of them mention it. -- Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup |
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White pepper in wine?
"Ken Blake" > wrote in message ... > > Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. > > > Is it only recently that this is being grown? Having never heard > of it before, I checked the indexes of all four of my Italian > wine reference books; none of them mention it. I checked online, but the websites are all in Italian. Looks like it's been around for close to a decade at least though. Tom S |
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White pepper in wine?
Ciò che ha detto
Ken Blake ) è così interessante, che devo dire la mia: Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. > > > Is it only recently that this is being grown? Having never heard > of it before, I checked the indexes of all four of my Italian > wine reference books; none of them mention it. No, it is an ancient and recently re-discovered grape. Luk http://www.langhe.net/inglese/pag_vi...ini&quale=0011 |
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White pepper in wine?
In . com,
Tom S > typed: > "Ken Blake" > wrote in message > ... >> > Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. >> >> >> Is it only recently that this is being grown? Having never heard >> of it before, I checked the indexes of all four of my Italian >> wine reference books; none of them mention it. > > I checked online, but the websites are all in Italian. Looks like > it's been around for close to a decade at least though. Thanks. Three out of those four references are over a decade old, so that may be my problem. -- Ken Blake Please reply to the newsgroup |
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White pepper in wine?
"Tom S" > wrote in message .com>...
> So, now I'm wondering: What conditions produce this character in a wine? > Is there a correlation between color and varietal pepperiness? Is this a > better question for a viticulture NG? > > Tom S Did some digging around, and this is what I found: "pepper" essence can be obtained by distilling the ripe berries of Piper Nigrum, which is apparantly a climbing plant. This essence contains terpenic hydrocarbons. It lacks the piquant character of the pepper grain, but the "pepper" smell found in wine also lacks that piquant edge. I think here we are really talking about black pepper, but so it goes. The place where I found this almost useless bit of information lists the following Italian wines (among many from elsewhere) as having "fine expression of pepper": Tenimenti Angelini, Val di Suga, Brunello de Montalcino Barbaresco, Bruno Giacoja Barolo, Sandrone, Cannucci Boschis Barolo, Clerico, Mentin Ginesta (they also list Umathum St.Laurent Vom Stein from Austria, and Ridge Cab from the US) I doubt that a vintner adds this essence. Most likely it is as other "notes" a some chemical compound produced in the winemaking is either the same or close enough that it lends that aroma. Please, somebody give a better answer! e. winemonger |
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White pepper in wine?
"White pepper" is particularly evident in cool climate syrah. The
Penfolds Coonawarra Bin 128 is classic with its lifted white pepper aromas. Many recent Northern California Syrahs show this powerfully on the nose and front palate. It is desirable only when it fades to exhibit the deep and delicious black fruit inherent in the varietal. Once you identify this aroma, it is unmistakeable. I have never tasted white pepper in a white wine, and would love to know of a Gruner Veltliner where it is obvious. |
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White pepper in wine?
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White pepper in wine?
winemonger wrote: > I doubt that a vintner adds this essence. Most likely it is as other > "notes" a some chemical compound produced in the winemaking is > either the same or close enough that it lends that aroma. Emily, The principal source of the pepper aroma is a chemical known as piperonal. It is closely related to several other flavorants known to occur in wine, so it is not unlikely that is does crop up (in small quantity in certain wines). Certainly, I have run across "pepper" in Zinfandel, Petite Sirah, Grenache and GV. Mark Lipton |
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White pepper in wine?
Mark Lipton > wrote in message >...
> Emily, > The principal source of the pepper aroma is a chemical known as piperonal. It is closely related to several > other flavorants known to occur in wine, so it is not unlikely that is does crop up (in small quantity in certain > wines). Certainly, I have run across "pepper" in Zinfandel, Petite Sirah, Grenache and GV. > > Mark Lipton Thanks Mark. Now I wonder if it is a slightly different compound make-up for the "black pepper" note vs. the "white pepper" note. I once found a website where a group of chemists began listing the breakdowns for these wine aromas.... tried to find it just now but couldn't. emily |
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