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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
winemonger
 
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Default traveling to italy

I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples, no set itinerary, so
let me have it with the recommendations! What I am especially
interested in are wines that I wouldn't be able to find/buy here in
the U.S. Much more interesting. But any and all tips are greatly
appreciated.
(any restaurant or charming hotel recommendations are also welcome)

thanks,
e. winemonger
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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"winemonger" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
> crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples...


My travel agent tells me that driving in Italy becomes increasingly
dangerous the farther South one goes. She strongly advised me not to drive
anywhere South of Roma. Besides, the trains are pretty good.

Also, be sure to pay for your purchases (especially gas) with a credit card.
A friend who picked me up at the airport in Milano stopped for gas on the
way and made the mistake of paying in cash. The gas station attendant saw
the luggage in the car, figured us for tourists and cheated my friend out of
about $30. He's still ****ed about that to this day! >:^(

Tom S


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
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On Thu, 13 May 2004 03:31:32 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"winemonger" > wrote in message
. com...
>> I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
>> crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples...

>
>My travel agent tells me that driving in Italy becomes increasingly
>dangerous the farther South one goes. She strongly advised me not to drive
>anywhere South of Roma. Besides, the trains are pretty good.


I would not say it is dangerous, the style changes, it demands more,
how should I says this, flexibility? One gets used to it.

Rather, I would advise renting a relaitevely non-descript car,
definitely not a BMW or anything flashy. Regarding dress code, I would
just avoid showing off lots of jewelry, but otherwise Naples is a
stupendous city, and one does not feel threatened, ever. Not like some
northern cities (and this is a northener writing...). Nightlife is
impressive, Naples at 3 in the morning is a bustling town, very nice
atmosphere, electric, peaceful.

>>Also, be sure to pay for your purchases (especially gas) with a credit card.

>A friend who picked me up at the airport in Milano stopped for gas on the
>way and made the mistake of paying in cash. The gas station attendant saw
>the luggage in the car, figured us for tourists and cheated my friend


See, I told you so, it is in Milan that you must be careful, not in
Naples... QED

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Capitan Angi
 
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Default traveling to italy

may I suggest you Le Marche (central Italy, Adriatic coast)?

I write you to your private email.

Bye

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Angelo Recchi
www.angelorecchi.com

yahoo messenger: capitanangi
"winemonger" > ha scritto nel messaggio
om...
> I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
> crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples, no set itinerary, so
> let me have it with the recommendations! What I am especially
> interested in are wines that I wouldn't be able to find/buy here in
> the U.S. Much more interesting. But any and all tips are greatly
> appreciated.
> (any restaurant or charming hotel recommendations are also welcome)
>
> thanks,
> e. winemonger



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
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On 12 May 2004 12:59:21 -0700, (winemonger)
wrote:

>I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
>crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples, no set itinerary, so
>let me have it with the recommendations! What I am especially
>interested in are wines that I wouldn't be able to find/buy here in
>the U.S. Much more interesting. But any and all tips are greatly
>appreciated.
>(any restaurant or charming hotel recommendations are also welcome)



I have a lot of suggestions, but let's first narrow it down a bit.

I must say that is not easy to visit vineyards in Italy, not like
France. You need appointments, and they are hard to get. However in
the cities you can taste Italy's best wines. So one alternative is to
do a city trip, this will avoid you having to drive anywhere. And you
will see some interesting sites between tastings... in that case, I
will give you a plan based on combining city visits with wine. A
breakneck speed 12 day city trip could include Turin, either
Bergamo-Bologna or Venice, Florence, Siena, Orvieto, Rome, Naples. If
this is what you are looking for, I will send you a possible city
route.

The other route is to stick to the country, go to small towns and be
close to the vineyards. Maybe you have already seen the top sites in
Italy, and the country route is appealing. In that case, you would
need a car and I could recommend an itinerary, something like Barolo,
Alto Adige, Friuli, Toscana, Campania.

Let me know.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link
http://www.tommasi.org/mymail


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Luk
 
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Default traveling to italy

Ciò che ha detto
Tom S )
è così interessante, che devo dire la mia:

http://www.movimentoturismovino.it/i...hp?pag=regioni


> "winemonger" > wrote in message
> om...
>> I'm off to Italy for 12 days of wine, wine, wine with my partner in
>> crime. We'll be driving from Turin to Naples...

>
> My travel agent tells me that driving in Italy becomes increasingly
> dangerous the farther South one goes. She strongly advised me not to

drive anywhere South of Roma. Besides, the trains are pretty good.
> Also, be sure to pay for your purchases (especially gas) with a
> credit card. A friend who picked me up at the airport in Milano
> stopped for gas on the way and made the mistake of paying in cash.
> The gas station attendant saw the luggage in the car, figured us for
> tourists and cheated my friend out of about $30. He's still ****ed
> about that to this day! >:^(


I think that most of the legends about Italy and its south should be swept
away once and for all. Do not imagine anything different than thousands of
places in the US. As usual, try to program your vacation and learn as much
as you can about the regions you plan to visit.
As far as your question is concerned, Mike is absolutely right. Almost
impossible to condensate such a big job. Nevertheless here is a list of
mail (one for each region) that you can ask for information about products
and producers. It is in Italian, but you can click on the E-mail addresses
and send them your questions in English.

Really Hope you enjoy your stay in Italy.

Luk



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default traveling to italy


"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 13 May 2004 03:31:32 GMT, "Tom S" >
> wrote:
> >My travel agent tells me that driving in Italy becomes increasingly
> >dangerous the farther South one goes. She strongly advised me not to

drive
> >anywhere South of Roma. Besides, the trains are pretty good.

>
> I would not say it is dangerous, the style changes, it demands more,
> how should I says this, flexibility? One gets used to it.


Hi, Mike -
It sounds like you are delicately suggesting something akin to "Mr. Toad's
Wild Ride" (an old Disneyland attraction). IOW, there aren't any traffic
laws (or at least none that are enforced) and one would be well advised to
rent the car that has the loudest horn! ;^)

>>Also, be sure to pay for your purchases (especially gas) with a credit

card.

> See, I told you so, it is in Milan that you must be careful, not in
> Naples...


Better be careful in Venice, too - especially Murano. Nobody tried to cheat
us there, but the hard-sell in the shops was a full court press! I came
close to dropping a couple of thousand dollars there on glass objets d'art
that I definitely didn't need. The place is mesmerizing.

Tom S


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
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Default traveling to italy

"Tom S" > wrote in
m:

>


>> >My travel agent tells me that driving in Italy becomes increasingly
>> >dangerous the farther South one goes.


ridiculous driving in Italy is insane everywhere!

but on a more on topic theme, I too have noticed a lack of degustation type
signs in Italy and more enotecas offering samples of local wines. So if
sampling the local goods is the thing the local wine shops are the place.
OTOH, the back roads are beautiful.

>>
>> I would not say it is dangerous, the style changes, it demands more,
>> how should I says this, flexibility? One gets used to it.

>
> Hi, Mike -
> It sounds like you are delicately suggesting something akin to "Mr.
> Toad's Wild Ride" (an old Disneyland attraction). IOW, there aren't
> any traffic laws (or at least none that are enforced) and one would be
> well advised to rent the car that has the loudest horn! ;^)


That loud horn will save you on many a twisty mountain road. There are
plenty of traffic laws in italy-with many interpretations- Italy is the
only place where I have seen traffic cops routinely inspired to tear up
tickets after watching dramatic explanations for ordinary wrong behavior.


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
dave
 
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Default traveling to italy

(winemonger) wrote in message . com>...
What I am especially
> interested in are wines that I wouldn't be able to find/buy here in
> the U.S. Much more interesting. But any and all tips are greatly
> appreciated.


Three personal recommendations: in the Oltrepo, we are fond of Caseo
Malleo (
www.caseo.it) They don't do tastings but there is a
delightful small bar in town that offers tastings of these wines. The
Caseo Malleo is a blend of Cabernet Savignon, Pinot Nero, and Barbera
- wierd sounding, but magical.

My second recommendation is in Barolo, not far from the village of
Barolo. The cantina is Fratelli Serio & Battista Borgogno, on the
Cannubi hillside. They don't speak english but they can be reached at
and they offer very nice Baroli.

My third recommendation is along the Maremma coast in so Tuscany. The
wine is Sassotondo San Lorenzo, a wine in the supertuscan style and
made from 100% ciliegiolo grapes (I hadn't ever heard of it before).
Also try the Pittigliano whites made nearby.

For lodging in that area try Podere Cavone
www.poderecavone.com
Have fun!
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
winemonger
 
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Default traveling to italy

Mike Tommasi > wrote in message news:

> The other route is to stick to the country, go to small towns and be
> close to the vineyards. Maybe you have already seen the top sites in
> Italy, and the country route is appealing. In that case, you would
> need a car and I could recommend an itinerary, something like Barolo,
> Alto Adige, Friuli, Toscana, Campania.


Thanks Mike-

I have done the city thing before, so I am all about the countryside.
I did a bit of driving around the Piemonte region before, and am
particularly interested in exploring it further. Will have to stop by
Alba; I know it isn't truffle season, but they still have some really
tasty things for sale. We will have a car (and to respond to the
first few posts: I am cautious, but pretty darn fearless) and we like
to hit the unbeaten paths. I agree that the plan of going to a
vinotek first to try to local wines is a good one- know of any
particularly helpful/jolly vinotek owners?

I look forward to you thoughts!
e. winemonger


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reka
 
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Default traveling to italy

In Piedmont I can recommend Fracchia & Berchialla, via Vernazza 9 in Alba
for a good selection of wines.
If you are traveling through the west of Liguria, there is a good enoteca
directly on the autostrada at the Ceriale rest stop called Liguria D.O.C.
http://www.liguriadoc.it/

Reka
"winemonger" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
om...

> I agree that the plan of going to a
> vinotek first to try to local wines is a good one- know of any
> particularly helpful/jolly vinotek owners?
>
> I look forward to you thoughts!
> e. winemonger



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  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
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On Thu, 13 May 2004 08:17:13 -0500, jcoulter
> wrote:

>ridiculous driving in Italy is insane everywhere!


Yes, correct, but if I must compare Italy and France, we have two
different kinds of road chaos.

In Italy, the objective is to get wherever you are heading to as
quickly as possible; the horn is a device that gives off short beeps,
like radar, it warns you of nearby vehicles so you can adjust your
crazy trajectory to avoid collision. Hence the horn button in Italy
takes up 95% of the steering wheel (the turning function ins
secondary), you can hit any spot with your entire arm, with your
elbow, your chin, anything and it will go off.

In France, the objective is not to get there quickly, but rather to
get there before the other guy, at all cost. The horn is a device used
to insult people, if you use it you risk a fight. So the horn switch
in France is a piddly button on the side of the steering wheel, to be
operated vigorously with your middle finger.

Traffic accidfent statistics are very interesting:

Italy has twice as many accidents as France. Germany has almost twice
as many accidents as Italy.

Oddly enough, all three countries have a similar number of fatal
acidents. So if you look at accident severity, France is has the
second highest percentage of fatal accidents in Europe, only Greece is
higher. Finland, Ireland and Denmark are close behind. The lowest
accident severity is in Germany and the UK.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
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On 13 May 2004 20:14:05 -0700, (winemonger)
wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote in message news:
>
>> The other route is to stick to the country, go to small towns and be
>> close to the vineyards. Maybe you have already seen the top sites in
>> Italy, and the country route is appealing. In that case, you would
>> need a car and I could recommend an itinerary, something like Barolo,
>> Alto Adige, Friuli, Toscana, Campania.

>
>Thanks Mike-
>
>I have done the city thing before, so I am all about the countryside.
>I did a bit of driving around the Piemonte region before, and am
>particularly interested in exploring it further. Will have to stop by
>Alba; I know it isn't truffle season, but they still have some really
>tasty things for sale. We will have a car (and to respond to the
>first few posts: I am cautious, but pretty darn fearless) and we like
>to hit the unbeaten paths.


Since this is where your trip starts, Turin has become a happening
place (it used to be the city to avoid). The top museum of egyptology
in the world, and Italy's top contemporary art museum at nearby
Rivoli. Lots of art. In Turin, eat at the Osteria Antiche Sere.

Regarding your tour, 12 days is a short time, I would stick to the
Langhe and Roero area of Piemonte, and then do the Chianti, Bolgheri
and Brunello areas. Between the two, you might want to stop by Genova
(it is culture capital of Europe and a really interesting city,
offbeat) and by the Cinque Terre (but dont buy any Sciacchetra, the
real stuff cannot be found except in one place...).

I would recomend that in Turin you buy some of the Slow Food
"Itinerari Slow" touring guides, especially the ones for the wine
regions. They are in italian, but you can easily figure out the texts,
just by following the maps and the recommended places. Not only do you
get to find out where you can eat real food at a good price, you also
get winery lists, driving itineraries, walking tours, history,
architecture, things to see, etc..

They cost 9.80 Euro each, less if you are a member. Some of the
current titles that I recommend:

Bra e il Roero (Piemonte)
Barolo e Barbaresco (Piemonte)
Montalcino e Montepulciano (Piemonte)
Torino
Trentino

If you want to be sure to find them all, after Torino drive straight
to Bra, which is a good place to taste wine, and go to the Slow Food
headquarters to find these guides. They used to have one called Guida
delle Langhe e del Roero. For eating, nothing beats the Guida delle
osterie, a large book listing hundreds of places whre you can eat good
authentic Italian food for less than 30 Euro and get to choose from an
excellent wine list. I use it all the time and have not been
disappointed. The guide deliberately leaves out trendoid places that
think that authenticity simply means sprinkling a few drops of (fake)
balsamic vinegar over everything, including dessert. In the same
building as SF you will find the Osteria Boccondivino, worth stopping
by for lunch.

Some places not on the guide:

In Piemonte, if you want to splurge, go eat at Guido, in his new
magnificent surroundings at Pollenzo, near Bra. This is a truly
remarkable place, both for food and for the beauty of the dining room.

I would also try Antica Corona Reale in Cervere, better known as Da
Renzo. You may not want to try the fried frogs, but the food is great.

If you head for the Bolgheri area and want to splurge again, a stop at
the legendary Gambero Rosso is recommended, Pierangelini is another
culinary genius. It is at San Vincenzo, on the Tuscan coast,
definitely not a touristy area but people go there.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link
http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Topi Kuusinen
 
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Default traveling to italy

Mike Tommasi wrote:

> On Thu, 13 May 2004 08:17:13 -0500, jcoulter
> > wrote:
>
>
>>ridiculous driving in Italy is insane everywhere!

>
> In Italy, the objective is to get wherever you are heading to as
> quickly as possible; the horn is a device that gives off short beeps,
> like radar, it warns you of nearby vehicles so you can adjust your
> crazy trajectory to avoid collision. Hence the horn button in Italy
> takes up 95% of the steering wheel (the turning function ins
> secondary), you can hit any spot with your entire arm, with your
> elbow, your chin, anything and it will go off.
>


While I have not driven in Italy, I've ridden a motorbike there. The
traffic in there does have a the kind of logic Mike describes.

I've been, for example, beeped in traffic lights by a car driver behind
me for NOT lane-splitting and riding to the front. (Most traffic lights
I saw in Italy had two stopping lines, the first one for bikes and the
second for cars. Bikes and mopeds were supposed to lane-split to the
first line.)

It's also rather easy to learn. On a bike, one learns pretty soon to
take the panniers off for a ride, unless you really need them. It's
easier to lane-split on a narrower bike. Rather soon passing the lines
of cars feels quite natural.

Riding back north, I was also already using the horn in the switchbacks
in the mountain roads. Just remember not to do that once you've crossed
to Switzerland.

While I did not venture into a large city, I did ride on the autostrada
on my trip from from Mandello del Lario, near Milan, to around Isola
Vicentino and Vicenza, and I must say that I've never ridden on a
smoother road. The pace of the traffic was, however, even more hectic
than that in Germany on the autobahn. Based on this experience I'd say
that riding/driving in Italy is quite not bad as most say.

The Soave winery was somewhere along the autostrada; i could smell it
easily (well, the Soave works hardly qualify as a winery, it mostly
resembles a factory).

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Traffic accidfent statistics are very interesting:
>
> Italy has twice as many accidents as France. Germany has almost twice
> as many accidents as Italy.


Is that per capita, Mike, or total accidents? Seems like that figure should
be adjusted for population to be meaningful.

Tom S




  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
t.schnack
 
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Tom S wrote:

[cut]
> It sounds like you are delicately suggesting something akin to "Mr. Toad's
> Wild Ride" (an old Disneyland attraction). IOW, there aren't any traffic
> laws (or at least none that are enforced) and one would be well advised to
> rent the car that has the loudest horn! ;^)


These descriptions from oversea writers in spite of being predictable are
often very amusing. Keep up the good work!
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