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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Several questions.

1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
Vineyard?

3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any others
that were great?

Thanks


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

"dick" > wrote in
ink.net:

> Several questions.
>
> 1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
> 2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
> Vineyard?
>
> 3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any
> others that were great?
>
> Thanks
>
>


You are right, but Pinot Gris for a long time was called this in the
Alcase. My understanding is that the practice had to be abated, I am
surprised that there are any bottles left out there with the tokay label it
has been a couple years since I recall seeing one.
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Don
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

It's the same grape, Tokay...Pinot Grigio ...Pinot Gris.... I recently
enjoyed a stunning bottle of Dopff & Irion Tokay Pinot Gris Grand Cru
with B.C. salmon.



jcoulter wrote:
> "dick" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
>
>>Several questions.
>>
>>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
>>2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
>>Vineyard?
>>
>>3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any
>>others that were great?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>

>
>
> You are right, but Pinot Gris for a long time was called this in the
> Alcase. My understanding is that the practice had to be abated, I am
> surprised that there are any bottles left out there with the tokay label it
> has been a couple years since I recall seeing one.


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Really...Tokay as in the Hungarian Dessert wine is same at Pinot
Gris..grigio?


"Don" > wrote in message
news:XIfnc.395210$Pk3.137053@pd7tw1no...
> It's the same grape, Tokay...Pinot Grigio ...Pinot Gris.... I recently
> enjoyed a stunning bottle of Dopff & Irion Tokay Pinot Gris Grand Cru
> with B.C. salmon.
>
>
>
> jcoulter wrote:
> > "dick" > wrote in
> > ink.net:
> >
> >
> >>Several questions.
> >>
> >>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
> >>2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
> >>Vineyard?
> >>
> >>3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any
> >>others that were great?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>

> >
> >
> > You are right, but Pinot Gris for a long time was called this in the
> > Alcase. My understanding is that the practice had to be abated, I am
> > surprised that there are any bottles left out there with the tokay label

it
> > has been a couple years since I recall seeing one.

>



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Robèrt Koopman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Dick,

"dick" wrote :

> Really...Tokay as in the Hungarian Dessert wine is same at Pinot
> Gris..grigio?
>

No, Tokay Pinot Gris is not related at all with the Hunagarion
version.

In 2005 (or is it 2006) this Tokay word is not allowed any longer with
Pinot Gris on a label.
It is then (finally) banned!

Regards,

Robèrt




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Slatcher
 
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Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

On Sat, 08 May 2004 23:56:35 GMT, "dick"
> wrote:

I think this has more or less already basically been answered, but to
tie up a few loose ends...
>
>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.


Tokay is a grape grown in Hungary, often used in a sweet wine but I
believe it is also used for less well know dry wines.

>2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
>Vineyard?


In Alsace Tokay is the name used for Pinot Gris, i.e. a totally
different grape.

It has nothing to do with coming from a single vineyard. Regardles of
the grape variety, the vineyard may be specified on Alsace wines, and
they now have a Grand Cru system.

To avolid confusion with the Hungarian Tokay, The Alsations have
agreed now always to use "Tokay Pinot Gris" on labels.

>3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any others
>that were great?


Probably :-)

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Salut/Hi dick,

le/on Sat, 08 May 2004 23:56:35 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Several questions.
>
>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.


Not quite. Tokaj (note spelling) is a town about the size of Nuits in the
North East of Hungary. Wines from near the town are called Tokaji something
(like wines from near Graach in Germany are called Graacher something). The
westernised spelling of both these is Tokay.

The dessert wine from the region is Tokaji Aszu (there are several others,
but they're much less known - Tokaji Szamarodni Edes, Tokaji Késöi
szüretelésú - meaning late harvest and the legendary Tokaji Eszencia).

Eszencia particularly had such a stellar reputation that for many years in
various parts of the world, people have tried to pass off locally produced
wines as Tokaj or Tokay. Alsace was one such, and in Australia in
Rutherglen, they still persist in doing so, calling the Muscadelle grape
Tokay locally and making a sweet wine from it.

Steve Slatcher (who answered you) is quite wrong in saying that Tokaj/y is a
hungarian grape, it isn't. There are four grapes (I think) used in the Tokaj
region to make white wine, Furmint, Harlevelu, Muskotely, and Orémus (also
the name of an excellent estate owned by Vega Sicilia).

>2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine?


In Alsace, it seems that they thought that the grape used to make Tokaji
Aszu or Tokaji Eszencia was the Pinot Gris, so they made wine from it
(excellent wine, often) and called it "Tokay". Pressure persuaded them to
rename it to Tokay d'Alsace, and finally, to Tokay - Pinot Gris. Despite
fighting hard to retain the name, they have until 2005 (or 6, I can't
remember) to drop all mention of Tokay from their labels.

By the way, Australia is still resisting this. But since they also make
"port" that isn't shipped "across the bar at Oporto" (the erstwhile legal
definition of Port wine in the UK) and "sherry" that has nothing to do with
Jerez de la Frontera (the origin of the name), and no doubt madeira that
never saw the island of Madeira, they are unlikely to change until the EU
threatens to ban ALL import of Australian wine until they start respecting
international agreements.

> Single vineyard?


About 20 years ago, Alsace winemakers decided to create the concept of
"Grand Cru" vineyards, which are the fields which were recognised by the
profession and consumer alike as consistently making better wine. The INAO
legislation over this has gone OTT, and is now becoming a bit silly, but the
idea was that most top vineyards were known for producing a particular
grape, so - for example in Bergheim, the Grasberg vineyard grows
particularly good Riesling, so with typical silliness, they have 1) insisted
that only Riesling may be grown there, and b) insisted that in the future
you may not mention the grape variety for the vineyard, since it is
implicit. They have also (and this is even sillier) insisted that ALL Grand
Crus have to contain just one grape variety.

So, a single vineyard (if it isn't a grand cru) may grow any grape variety,
but not if it is a grand cru vineyard. Off hand I can't remember if it's
legal to mention a vineyard name in Alsace if it's not grand cru.

>3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any others
>that were great?


I like it very much as a food wine, where it's as good as the Austrian
Gruner Veltliner, I feel, for otherwise tricky food matches.

=========
To specifically answer other comments in this thread.

Josh Coulter is nearly right. Yes, the Alsacians have agreed to drop the
mention of Tokay from Pinot Gris labels, but they were given (I think) 10
years to implement this, and you can still find new bottles WITH the twin
name Tokay - Pinot Gris.

Don is quite right. The grape (called Tokay in Alsace) is the same, and for
completeness - and because we've been talking about Hungary, makes a
gorgeous slightly sweet wine near Lake Balaton under its Hungarian name of
Szurkebarat (with various accents) - Grey Friar. But that grape is NOT used
in Tokaji to make the dessert wine- to answer your supplementary question.

I've already corrected Steve S's error in calling Tokay a grape in Hungary.
Apart from that, he's right in saying that naming a vineyard has not much to
do with naming a grape variety, though shortly it WILL do so, for the Grand
Cru vineyards, as I said before, I'm not sure that growers may use the names
of other (non grand cru) vineyards on their bottles, though if they may not,
I don't blame Steve for making a mistake, as things are in great flux there.

How do I know all this? I have a couple of very good friends who make wine
there, and we often discuss their legislative plans when we meet. I have to
say that they have the grace to look distinctly uncomfortable when I talk
about my hungarian winemaking friends in Tokaj and the Pinot Gris!!

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Slatcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:55:01 +0100, Steve Slatcher
> wrote:

>On Sat, 08 May 2004 23:56:35 GMT, "dick"
> wrote:
>
>I think this has more or less already basically been answered, but to
>tie up a few loose ends...
>>
>>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.

>
>Tokay is a grape grown in Hungary, often used in a sweet wine but I
>believe it is also used for less well know dry wines.


That's complete rubbish - never believe anything you read on usenet.

Tokay is the Angicised form of a PLACE in Hungary that has given its
name to a wine - they use various grapes, mainly Furmint, but NOT
Pinot Gris.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jenny
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Hi Dick

Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the wine comes
from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there label

greetings

jenny



-------------------------------------------------
Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor!!!
-------------------------------------------------
"dick" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Several questions.
>
> 1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
> 2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
> Vineyard?
>
> 3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any

others
> that were great?
>
> Thanks
>
>



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Great. The one I had was Kirchberg and producer was Klipfel.

Year 2000.

I really enjoyed. Rarely do I drink whites with exceptiono of Champaigne or
Sparkling.

dick

"Jenny" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Dick
>
> Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
> is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the wine comes
> from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
> Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there label
>
> greetings
>
> jenny
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor!!!
> -------------------------------------------------
> "dick" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Several questions.
> >
> > 1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
> > 2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
> > Vineyard?
> >
> > 3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any

> others
> > that were great?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >

>
>





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Don
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Sorry Dick I guess I received bad info and am guilty of passing it
along. The T.P.G. I had was Grand Cru Vorbourg 1998.

dick wrote:
> Great. The one I had was Kirchberg and producer was Klipfel.
>
> Year 2000.
>
> I really enjoyed. Rarely do I drink whites with exceptiono of Champaigne or
> Sparkling.
>
> dick
>
> "Jenny" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi Dick
>>
>>Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
>>is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the wine comes
>>from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
>>Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there label
>>
>>greetings
>>
>>jenny
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>Bonum Vinum Laetificat Cor!!!
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>"dick" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>>
>>>Several questions.
>>>
>>>1) I thought Tokay was Hungarian Dessert Wine.
>>>2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine? Single
>>>Vineyard?
>>>
>>>3) I have tried only one while on vacation. Has anyone else had any

>>
>>others
>>
>>>that were great?
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Slatcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

On Sun, 09 May 2004 11:56:33 +0200, Ian Hoare >
wrote:

>Steve Slatcher (who answered you) is quite wrong in saying that Tokaj/y is a
>hungarian grape, it isn't.


I corrected my own post even before reading yours. Don't know what
came over me.

>Pressure persuaded them to
>rename it to Tokay d'Alsace, and finally, to Tokay - Pinot Gris. Despite
>fighting hard to retain the name, they have until 2005 (or 6, I can't
>remember) to drop all mention of Tokay from their labels.


2007 according to Hugh J's Pocket Wine Book.

>So, a single vineyard (if it isn't a grand cru) may grow any grape variety,
>but not if it is a grand cru vineyard. Off hand I can't remember if it's
>legal to mention a vineyard name in Alsace if it's not grand cru.


It is legal. Or at least tolerated. I have seen with my own eyes
several non-Grand Cru wines with a specified vineyard.

I believe Grand Crus can be quite large areas BTW, and another
objection from some producers, e.g. Rolly Gassmann, is that they
prefer to label their wine with a specific vineyard within a Grand Cru
area, which they cannot do if they declare it to be Grand Cru. I say
"I believe" here because this is half-remembered verbal information.
Can anyone verify this?

>How do I know all this? I have a couple of very good friends who make wine
>there, and we often discuss their legislative plans when we meet. I have to
>say that they have the grace to look distinctly uncomfortable when I talk
>about my hungarian winemaking friends in Tokaj and the Pinot Gris!!


Are they also uncomfortable about their objections to producers from
Southern France using the term "Vendange Tardive"? I think I would
be. As a rule I am very much in favour of getting rid of generic uses
of Tokay, Champange, Port etc, but isn't "Vendange Tardive" just
French for "Late Harvest"?

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

"Ian Hoare" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Salut/Hi dick,
>
> le/on Sat, 08 May 2004 23:56:35 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>


> >2) What is Tokay reference to with regards to a Alsace wine?

>


Charming or at least completely false anecdote: Legend has it that the
Imperial Steward, Laszar Schwendi, after burning and pillaging various towns
in HUngary on the orders of his high and benevolent master, brought back the
grape from HUngary as a blessing to his loyal Alsatian subjects. For which
he is portayed on the marketplace of COlmar, holding a cluster of grapes in
his noble hand.
---
This story is, technically, a lie. Nevertheless, the statue exists.

> > Single vineyard?

>
> About 20 years ago, Alsace winemakers decided to create the concept of
> "Grand Cru" vineyards ... They have also (and this is even sillier)

insisted that ALL Grand
> Crus have to contain just one grape variety.


For the sake of complicating things: four varieties are allowed as GC, the
'noble' ones, i e, Riesling, Pinot Gris, Gewurztraminer, and Muscat.

As for the cocnept of GC, at least three major producers are on record as
being against it:
Hugel, Trimbach, and Leon Beyer.

> So, a single vineyard (if it isn't a grand cru) may grow any grape

variety,
> but not if it is a grand cru vineyard. Off hand I can't remember if it's
> legal to mention a vineyard name in Alsace if it's not grand cru.


It is, and it is quite common. If it is not legal, it is still common.
Schirmberg, Herrenweg, Langehald ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

"dick" > skrev i meddelandet
ink.net...
> Great. The one I had was Kirchberg and producer was Klipfel.
>
> Year 2000.
>
> I really enjoyed. Rarely do I drink whites with exceptiono of Champaigne

or
> Sparkling.
>
> dick
>
> "Jenny" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Dick
> >
> > Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
> > is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the wine comes
> > from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
> > Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there label



Hello Dick;
The Pinot Gris is something of a rising value, I think, in Alsace. However,
it´s a region of individualism run rampant, and you will find loads of
different styles, from nearly bone dry examples with a marked refreshing
acidity, to fruit bombs with lots of residual sugar.
Those marked Vendange Tardive are to a very high % sweet, sometimes even
sticky.
I personally value the products of Bruno Sorg, and Dirler-Cadé. These are
however small vineyards, and their products may never reach you.

Cheers

Nils GUstaf



--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
James Silverton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris


"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in
message ...
> "dick" > skrev i meddelandet
> ink.net...
> > Great. The one I had was Kirchberg and producer was Klipfel.
> >
> > Year 2000.
> >
> > I really enjoyed. Rarely do I drink whites with exceptiono of

Champaigne
> or
> > Sparkling.
> >
> > dick
> >
> > "Jenny" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Dick
> > >
> > > Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
> > > is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the

wine comes
> > > from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
> > > Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there

label
>
>
> Hello Dick;
> The Pinot Gris is something of a rising value, I think, in Alsace.

However,
> it4s a region of individualism run rampant, and you will find loads

of
> different styles, from nearly bone dry examples with a marked

refreshing
> acidity, to fruit bombs with lots of residual sugar.
> Those marked Vendange Tardive are to a very high % sweet, sometimes

even
> sticky.
> I personally value the products of Bruno Sorg, and Dirler-Cadi.

These are
> however small vineyards, and their products may never reach you.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nils GUstaf
>


It occurred to me to wonder what a "grey" grape actually looked like
and I came up with a picture in
www.rapazfreres.ch/Cepages/ cep_pinot_gris.htm

It is interesting that the grape is referred to on that page as "Tokay
Pinot Gris" and it is stated that the grape came from Hungary a long
time ago but that most Hungarian wines use the Furmint.
"Pour la petite histoire, le Tokay Pinot Gris, aurait été ramené de
Hongrie par Lazare de Schwendi, après sa victoire à Tokay sur les
turcs en 1565. Cependant, aucun cépage ne lui semble apparenté
aujourd'hui en Hongrie. Les vins de Tokay sont à majorité issu de
Furmint."

I'm not in a position to argue about the accuracy of the article but
it has a nice picture of the grapes.


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA





  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

In article >, Steve Slatcher
> writes:

>To avolid confusion with the Hungarian Tokay, The Alsations have
>agreed now always to use "Tokay Pinot Gris" on labels.


Just for clarity, a quick recap:

The Alsatians used to call Pinot Gris by the name Tokay d'Alsace.

Sometime in the '80s there was an agreement to start phasing out that name, I
don't remember a wine from the '90s labeled Tokay d'Alsace. Most 90s wines are
labeled Tokay Pinot Gris.

There is a deadline (within a couple years, I think) for total elimination of
the word Tokay, already many producers just put Pinot Gris on the label.

There is more discussion in the international community re the Tocai grape in
the Friuili region, but unsure of status of those talks.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Salut/Hi Steve Slatcher,

le/on Sun, 09 May 2004 15:24:21 +0100, tu disais/you said:-

>On Sun, 09 May 2004 11:56:33 +0200, Ian Hoare >
>wrote:
>
>>Steve Slatcher (who answered you) is quite wrong in saying that Tokaj/y is a
>>hungarian grape, it isn't.

>
>I corrected my own post even before reading yours. Don't know what
>came over me.


Indeed you did! I was impressed - actually, I wondered if it wasn't a case
either of stolen cyberpersonas, or schizophrenia!

>>fighting hard to retain the name, they have until 2005 (or 6, I can't
>>remember) to drop all mention of Tokay from their labels.

>
>2007 according to Hugh J's Pocket Wine Book.


Perfectly possible. My Alsace friends and I don't often get too bogged down
on such minutiae (;-)) We're usually too busy tasting their Grand Cru
Altenberg de Bergheim.

>>So, a single vineyard (if it isn't a grand cru) may grow any grape variety,
>>but not if it is a grand cru vineyard. Off hand I can't remember if it's
>>legal to mention a vineyard name in Alsace if it's not grand cru.

>
>It is legal. Or at least tolerated. I have seen with my own eyes
>several non-Grand Cru wines with a specified vineyard.


Fair enough, though there's a niggle in the back of my mind that suggests
that this is shortly to be banned. But I could well be imagining this.

>>there, and we often discuss their legislative plans when we meet. I have to
>>say that they have the grace to look distinctly uncomfortable when I talk
>>about my hungarian winemaking friends in Tokaj and the Pinot Gris!!

>
>Are they also uncomfortable about their objections to producers from
>Southern France using the term "Vendange Tardive"?


The ones I know are, yes. There seems to be a move afoot in France to try to
enlarge the type of word which is deemed to be specific to an area. So
Muscadet producers prevented Luc de Conti from putting Cuvée sur lie on a
wine frem Bergerac, the expression "Méthode Champenoise" is now reserved,
etc.

>I think I would be. As a rule I am very much in favour of getting rid of generic uses
>of Tokay, Champange, Port etc, but isn't "Vendange Tardive" just
>French for "Late Harvest"?


I agree 100%. I wish I knew what we could do to persuade the INAO or the
association of Alsace wine makers NOT to act in such a restrictive way. I'm
pretty unhappy about their attempts to limit Gewurztraminer production
outside their area too.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

"James Silverton" > skrev i meddelandet
...
>
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in
> message ...
> > "dick" > skrev i meddelandet
> > ink.net...
> > > Great. The one I had was Kirchberg and producer was Klipfel.
> > >
> > > Year 2000.
> > >
> > > I really enjoyed. Rarely do I drink whites with exceptiono of

> Champaigne
> > or
> > > Sparkling.
> > >
> > > dick
> > >
> > > "Jenny" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Hi Dick
> > > >
> > > > Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris
> > > > is not complete The "Grand Cru" belongs to the area where the

> wine comes
> > > > from, f.i. Hengst, Altenberg Bergbieten, Kirchberg etc.
> > > > Alsace has 50 area's who are allowed to have Grand Cru on there

> label
> >
> >
> > Hello Dick;
> > The Pinot Gris is something of a rising value, I think, in Alsace.

> However,
> > it4s a region of individualism run rampant, and you will find loads

> of
> > different styles, from nearly bone dry examples with a marked

> refreshing
> > acidity, to fruit bombs with lots of residual sugar.
> > Those marked Vendange Tardive are to a very high % sweet, sometimes

> even
> > sticky.
> > I personally value the products of Bruno Sorg, and Dirler-Cadi.

> These are
> > however small vineyards, and their products may never reach you.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Nils GUstaf
> >

>
> It occurred to me to wonder what a "grey" grape actually looked like
> and I came up with a picture in
> www.rapazfreres.ch/Cepages/ cep_pinot_gris.htm
>
> It is interesting that the grape is referred to on that page as "Tokay
> Pinot Gris" and it is stated that the grape came from Hungary a long
> time ago but that most Hungarian wines use the Furmint.
> "Pour la petite histoire, le Tokay Pinot Gris, aurait été ramené de
> Hongrie par Lazare de Schwendi, après sa victoire à Tokay sur les
> turcs en 1565. Cependant, aucun cépage ne lui semble apparenté
> aujourd'hui en Hongrie. Les vins de Tokay sont à majorité issu de
> Furmint."
>
> I'm not in a position to argue about the accuracy of the article but
> it has a nice picture of the grapes.



The actual grape is not so much grey as pinkish. Rarely, you will find Pinot
Gris wines with a bronze sheen or highlights - I gave a TN of one about a
year ago, from Friuli, if I remember correctly. As for the name gris, you
may keep in mind that some of the very pale rosés from SOuthern France are
called 'gris'.

The grape is closely related to Pinot Noir, and, according to some
authorities, genetically identical. No doubt it has evolved as a mutation of
PN, and it was grown in Bourgogne in the Middle Ages (it is allowed in the
today rare, lesser quality Bourgogne Grande Ordinaire). The story about
Lazar Schwendi and the Tokay Pinot Gris is bunk.

BTW, in parts of Italy, Grenache goes by the name of Tocai Rosso woithout
being to my knowledge in the slightest affiliated with HUngary - there may
be more explanations to the moniker 'tocai/Tokay' than geography, what?

HTH

Nils Gustaf


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  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
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Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

>There is more discussion in the international community re the Tocai grape in
>the Friuili region, but unsure of status of those talks.


First of all, my apologies to group, my "recap" somehow posted almost a day
after I wrote it, and covered stuff that others had explained more precisely.

But it got me to wondering re the status of the situation with the Tocai grape
in the north of Italy. Does Mike or anyone have the story on the currrent
situation there re the use of the name Tocai?
Dale

Dale Williams
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  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:


> The actual grape is not so much grey as pinkish. Rarely, you will find Pinot
> Gris wines with a bronze sheen or highlights - I gave a TN of one about a
> year ago, from Friuli, if I remember correctly. As for the name gris, you
> may keep in mind that some of the very pale rosés from SOuthern France are
> called 'gris'.


That bronze colored PG from Friuli was probably Livio Felluga's (was it
you who was asking me about this producer recently?).

Mark Lipton


  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
 
Posts: n/a
Default Alsace Grand Cru Tokay Pinot Gris

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>
>
> > The actual grape is not so much grey as pinkish. Rarely, you will find

Pinot
> > Gris wines with a bronze sheen or highlights - I gave a TN of one about

a
> > year ago, from Friuli, if I remember correctly. As for the name gris,

you
> > may keep in mind that some of the very pale rosés from SOuthern France

are
> > called 'gris'.

>
> That bronze colored PG from Friuli was probably Livio Felluga's (was it
> you who was asking me about this producer recently?).



Ay, yer worship, so it were, so it were, and the name noo springs to me
mind, it does, yes.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf


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