Went to a store tasting at Zachy's of Louis Jadot wines. I was running errands,
stopped to grab a couple bottles from their sale, but managed to taste my way
through most of the wines. Take notes with even more of a grain of salt than
usual- small pours, and as always with store tastings I have no clue re
decanting, etc.

2002 Louis Jadot Chardonnay Bourgogne ($12.99)
Ripe white fruit, yet with fairly zippy acidity. Nice floral nose, light oak.
If this had been $10 I would've jumped on it. But $13 is pushing QPR. B

2001 Louis Jadot Puligny-Montrachet ($44.99)
Butterscotch and apple, minerally. Pretty good. B+

2001 Louis Jadot Gevrey-Chambertin (34.99)
Moderate acidity, raspberry/black cherry fruit, earthy. B+/B

2001 Louis Jadot Beaune 1er Boucherottes (34.99)
Perfumed nose, but then a bit tannic with dilute cherry fruit, left me cold (I
think I tried the Ursules on another occasion and liked much better). B-

1999 Louis Jadot Corton Greves ($70)
I'm not a huge Corton fan, but this was pretty nice -for a $40 Beaune. Not so
nice for a $70 Corton. B+/B

1997 Louis Jadot Charmes-Chambertin ($95)
Nice balance of acidity, fruit, and resolved tannins. Damp earth and forest
floor, hint of coffee, solid black cherry & raspberry/framboise fruit. Supple
and interesting, seemingly fully mature. A

1997 Louis Jadot Clos de la Roche (90.00)
More closed, but nice underlying fruit. Big structured Burg. Needs air or time.
B+

Barrel samples:
2002 Louis Jadot Cotes de Nuits Villages "Vaucrain"
Rich rich fruit, short finish.

2002 Louis Jadot Pommard "Clos de la Commaraine"
( I remember this was a monopole, but not whether it's a 1er cru)
A bit hard and clunky, but good fruit, long finish

2002 Louis Jadot Corton Pougets
I almost didn't taste this, I'm not biggest Corton fan and was running out of
time and tastebuds. But Jadot rep insisted I try,and I'm glad I did. Earthy,
with mushroom notes (pretty unusual in a young wine).Spice, red fruit, good
finish. For once I might think a Corton is worth the GC tariff.

2002 Louis Jadot Clos Vougeot
Another very good GC-even better than the Corton Pougets. Deep fruit, mineral
and flowers. Delish.

There was also a table of Woodward Canyon wines, I only tried the 2001
Nelms Road Cabernet Sauvignon (Columbia Valley).Pretty good medium-bodied cab
for $17.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a
good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where
it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy,
and certainly not of consistency.
Dale

Dale Williams
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On 04 May 2004 19:45:55 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:

] Went to a store tasting at Zachy's of Louis Jadot wines. I was running errands,
] stopped to grab a couple bottles from their sale, but managed to taste my way
] through most of the wines. Take notes with even more of a grain of salt than
] usual- small pours, and as always with store tastings I have no clue re
] decanting, etc.
]
[snip notes]

These prices sure seem out of whack to me...

But my question was about the "barrel samples." presumably these had
been bottled and shipped to the store? It seem to me that at this stage
the wine is very volatile, my experience is that within a week or so a
barrel can change radically in character. Anyone else concur?

Then, shock the wine at altitude, shake it up, leave it in a bottle for
a week, who knows how close to the barrel it is, even as a snap shot?

Just pondering the concept of in-store barrel tastings...

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in
:

> Went to a store tasting at Zachy's of Louis Jadot wines. I was running
> errands, stopped to grab a couple bottles from their sale, but managed
> to taste my way through most of the wines. Take notes with even more
> of a grain of salt than usual- small pours, and as always with store
> tastings I have no clue re decanting, etc.
>
> 2002 Louis Jadot Chardonnay Bourgogne ($12.99)
> Ripe white fruit, yet with fairly zippy acidity. Nice floral nose,
> light oak. If this had been $10 I would've jumped on it. But $13 is
> pushing QPR. B
>

Ok I'm a cheap wine guy but I really find this one a little offensive, made
in a very oaky, for me, manner that suggests manufacture for the american
market. There is little semblance to French wine in the Bourgogne for a few
dollars less the Jadot Macon-Villages is a great QPR and a representative
of the wines of the Maconaise.

rant mode off ;-)

Hi Emery:
The prices are Zachy's, rather well-known as being quite expensive (you can get
deals during sales, if you're careful).

In article >, Emery Davis
> writes:

>But my question was about the "barrel samples." presumably these had
>been bottled and shipped to the store? It seem to me that at this stage
>the wine is very volatile, my experience is that within a week or so a
>barrel can change radically in character. Anyone else concur?
>
>Then, shock the wine at altitude, shake it up, leave it in a bottle for
>a week, who knows how close to the barrel it is, even as a snap shot?
>

I've probably been to dozens of store tastings featuring barrel samples. I
agree with all the caveats. Which is why I usually (as in this case) don't
offer even my usual shaky grades on barrel samples. But I do think they offer a
snapshot, if a fuzzier snapshot than a finished product (in this case, the lead
winemaker from Jadot was one of the pourers, so he must think it had some
value).

While I don't think they are true visions of the finished product, they do give
on a clue to such things as size/tannins, fruit focus (red or black, for
instance), amount of oak, etc. When making decisions on pre-arrival buying of
hard to get items (I usually wait, taste, and buy, but for certain small
production items that's sometimes impossible), it's my personal preference to
try barrel samples, I'd rather make a mistake based on my faulty tasting than
just be a sheeple.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>Ok I'm a cheap wine guy but I really find this one a little offensive, made
>in a very oaky, for me, manner that suggests manufacture for the american
>market. There is little semblance to French wine in the Bourgogne for a few
>dollars less the Jadot Macon-Villages is a great QPR and a representative
>of the wines of the Maconaise.
>
>rant mode off ;-)

Fine rant. I just didn't find a lot of oak here (I have in some previous
vintages, though I think I remember liking one other- the 2000?). I'm not a
real querophile, and am usually quite sensitive to overoaking. Have you tried
the 2002? There are a few possibilities he
1) Jadot used less new oak here than other vintages
2) It's an oaky wine, Jadot used lots of new barrels, and I just missed it
(entirely possible) Lots of ripe fruit here.
3) Similar to theory number 2, except the racy acidity took my eye off the
ball.

I liked it enough to pick up a bottle at a more reasonable store, we'll see
what I think when I have a full bottle.

BTW, I agree the Macon-Villages is usually a pretty safe bet, has saved me in
several restaurants!
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in
:

>>Ok I'm a cheap wine guy but I really find this one a little offensive,
>>made in a very oaky, for me, manner that suggests manufacture for the
>>american market. There is little semblance to French wine in the
>>Bourgogne for a few dollars less the Jadot Macon-Villages is a great
>>QPR and a representative of the wines of the Maconaise.
>>
>>rant mode off ;-)
>
> Fine rant. I just didn't find a lot of oak here (I have in some
> previous vintages, though I think I remember liking one other- the
> 2000?). I'm not a real querophile, and am usually quite sensitive to
> overoaking. Have you tried the 2002? There are a few possibilities
> he 1) Jadot used less new oak here than other vintages
> 2) It's an oaky wine, Jadot used lots of new barrels, and I just
> missed it (entirely possible) Lots of ripe fruit here.
> 3) Similar to theory number 2, except the racy acidity took my eye off
> the ball.
>
> I liked it enough to pick up a bottle at a more reasonable store,
> we'll see what I think when I have a full bottle.
>
> BTW, I agree the Macon-Villages is usually a pretty safe bet, has
> saved me in several restaurants!
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply
>

It is entirely possible that they are making this one a little less oaky
and that would not be a bad thing. I just I might give it a try in the
future. Without your note I would have given it a definite pass.

On 05 May 2004 12:57:26 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams) said:

[snip]
]
] I've probably been to dozens of store tastings featuring barrel samples. I
] agree with all the caveats. Which is why I usually (as in this case) don't
] offer even my usual shaky grades on barrel samples. But I do think they offer a
] snapshot, if a fuzzier snapshot than a finished product (in this case, the lead
] winemaker from Jadot was one of the pourers, so he must think it had some
] value).
]

Hi Dale,

Yes, I see now you hadn't noted the barrel samples, honestly hadn't noticed
it originally. I've never heard a winemaker be less than circumspect about
such samples, so I suspect this was a combination of marketing and Zachy's
wanting to keep their rep (apparently deserved if you're anyone to go by) for
tastings.

As for the store prices, yes I suppose they are known to be quite high, although
I've often seen some very good deals advertised in the NYT. I was commenting
more generally on the Jadot prices. Put's me to mind of a recent comment
in another thread, "what do you expect for $20?" I'm still of the opinion that
it should buy a damn good bottle. These prices -- as for you, I guess -- just
make the wines an unattainable luxury product for me.

] While I don't think they are true visions of the finished product, they do give
] on a clue to such things as size/tannins, fruit focus (red or black, for
] instance), amount of oak, etc. When making decisions on pre-arrival buying of
] hard to get items (I usually wait, taste, and buy, but for certain small
] production items that's sometimes impossible), it's my personal preference to
] try barrel samples, I'd rather make a mistake based on my faulty tasting than
] just be a sheeple.

I agree, of course, with the last bit! I've found tannins difficult to judge from
barrel samples, and also other aspects of suppleness. The fruit "focus" makes
sense to me, but the forwardness and structure of same seems to vary
very quickly over time when in barrel; also I've noticed that sometimes early
bottle shock will bring fruit forward. The amount of oak, yes, in a general way.

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

>As for the store prices, yes I suppose they are known to be quite high,
>although
>I've often seen some very good deals advertised in the NYT.

Zachy's prices tend to be high, so even if they have a 16% off sale (fairly
common) their prices tend to be about the same as Rochambeau's regular pricing.
But there are always a few that are good, and during their "net sales" there
are some good values.

>I was commenting
>more generally on the Jadot prices. Put's me to mind of a recent comment
>in another thread, "what do you expect for $20?" I'm still of the opinion
>that
>it should buy a damn good bottle. These prices -- as for you, I guess --
>just
>make the wines an unattainable luxury product for me.
>
Well, I actually bought nothing at these prices. I expect negociant wines to be
priced less than top growers' wines, and these are in line (or higher). I might
keep an eye out to see if I see that '97 Charmes at a better price though- one
of the best '97 Burgs I've tried.

>I've found tannins difficult to judge
>from
>barrel samples, and also other aspects of suppleness. The fruit "focus"
>makes
>sense to me, but the forwardness and structure of same seems to vary
>very quickly over time when in barrel; also I've noticed that sometimes early
>bottle shock will bring fruit forward. The amount of oak, yes, in a general
>way.
>
Personally I find amount of tannins fairly easy to judge, though not
neccessarily type (whether ripe, hard, fine, etc.). In fruit one can usually
detect if there's any green unripeness, as well as profile of fruit (high acid
tends to make Burgs seem more black fruit, for instance).

In any case, I think that tasting from barrel samples is a datapoint, but one
that shouldn't be given as much weight as other points.


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Emery Davis wrote:

> I agree, of course, with the last bit! I've found tannins difficult to judge from
> barrel samples, and also other aspects of suppleness. The fruit "focus" makes
> sense to me, but the forwardness and structure of same seems to vary
> very quickly over time when in barrel; also I've noticed that sometimes early
> bottle shock will bring fruit forward. The amount of oak, yes, in a general way.

Emery,
There is a very good reason for your problems with judging tannins
in barrel samples. It is well documented that the astringency of
tannins changes in a very interesting way with the size of the tannins
(the smallest show no astringency, moderate size show the most and then
a steady decrease with size thereafter). Since the tannins in barrel
samples are typically small, they will tend to show very soft and
forward. In short time, though, the tannins will have increased in size
enough to make the same wine a tannic monster! It would certainly take
more experience than I have to reliably judge the aging potential of a
wine from a barrel sample.

Mark Lipton