Cherie wrote:
>
> Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm not an
> idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its exact
> usage in the NG?

Bonjour, Cherie!
"Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who
purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in a newsgroup with inflammatory
and/or insulting posts. Many other newsgroups have quite regular
trolling, though this one thankfully has been reasonably troll-free.
In truth, the term "troll" is a neologism, derived from the action of
"trolling" for a reponse -- an activity that dates back to the dawn of
the Internet.

HTH
Mark Lipton

"jcoulter" > wrote in message
...
> "Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote in
> :
>
>
> ...
> > always ... fall or something ...
> > Question: How on Earth can you be both a liberal and a socialist? That
> > is truly the work of a deranged mind (and I am speaking as a
> > professional, mind you).
>
> Easy move to AmeriKa where everything left of the right side of center is
> considered all one big mass of indistinguishable political entities (note
> this includes the center itself!)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Nils Gustaf
> >
> > [1] Such as entering this thread

Agreed, Anyone who supports a large "Nanny Government" and is anti-free
markets is considered in the USA to be leftest/democrats/liberals/socialist.
How far

Thanks for the post. I thought it was the little Troll dolls with long hair
that my sister played with years ago.

Now I have the facts!!!! :-)


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Cherie wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm
not an
> > idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its
exact
> > usage in the NG?
>
> Bonjour, Cherie!
> "Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who
> purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in a newsgroup with inflammatory
> and/or insulting posts. Many other newsgroups have quite regular
> trolling, though this one thankfully has been reasonably troll-free.
> In truth, the term "troll" is a neologism, derived from the action of
> "trolling" for a reponse -- an activity that dates back to the dawn of
> the Internet.
>
> HTH
> Mark Lipton

Salut/Hi Cherie,

le/on Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:28:20 -0400, tu disais/you said:-

>Hi everyone! Remember me,

Yup!

>Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm not an
>idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its exact
>usage in the NG?

A Troll is someone who posts with the express intent of stirring up discord
and annoyance. They often crosspost to antagonistic newsgroups with the
intention of creating a row. In the case of Vincent, he's made a lot of
contentious posts, thrown around accusations of a variety of failings, and
talked a great deal of nonsense to boot. I'd not define him as a classic
Troll, but he's close enough for government contract. Trolls were
mischievous spirits in Norse mythology iirc and of course there's the
fishing term of "trolling" where you trail a lure through the water and the
hopes of getting a "bite". I think this is probably the right explanation of
the use of the term on the Usenet.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Ewan McNay,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:50:28 -0400, tu disais/you said:-


>Ah, this is all too much. How about you all come visit
>Connecticut, as long as you bring the respective delicacies and
>bottles along?

I'd be delighted to. What part of CT are you in? Jacquie & I shall probably
be in the Berkshires, which aren't too far from CT, looking at fall colours
in mid October.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

> Cherie wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm
not an
> > idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its
exact
> > usage in the NG?


Unfortunatly in this forum it means:

"Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who
purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in order to provide a thought
provoking discussion.
When we do not want to hear what a person has to say and when a person says
something that contradicts what we believe it is necessary to discredit that
person by claiming he is a "troll". In our opinion, once a person is
accused of being a troll, nothing they say should be considered accurate,
especially if it contradicts our communal knowledge base. It is OK to
insult and talk down to these trolls as if they are a lower form of life or
an "animal". Never confront or debate with a troll because the troll may
tell you something that you dont want to hear. If we ignore the troll and
deny his thinking he may just go away when he realizes that we are "all
knowledgable" and dont want anyone to "stir the pot".

Have never seen a thread go this long. ;-)

Larry
Southern Ontario

"dick" > wrote in message
news
> Thanks for the post. I thought it was the little Troll dolls with long
hair
> that my sister played with years ago.
>
> Now I have the facts!!!! :-)
>
>
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Cherie wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyway, I have a question regarding the use of the "Troll" term. I'm
> not an
> > > idiot, I certainly get the gist of it, but can you explain to me its
> exact
> > > usage in the NG?
> >
> > Bonjour, Cherie!
> > "Troll" is a time-honored USEnet term, referring to someone who
> > purposefully attempts to "stir the pot" in a newsgroup with inflammatory
> > and/or insulting posts. Many other newsgroups have quite regular
> > trolling, though this one thankfully has been reasonably troll-free.
> > In truth, the term "troll" is a neologism, derived from the action of
> > "trolling" for a reponse -- an activity that dates back to the dawn of
> > the Internet.
> >
> > HTH
> > Mark Lipton
>
>
I always picture a little evil thing living under the bridge in, is it,
Billy Goat's Gruff??? It's been a long, long time, and I'm not even sure
what that is, (a movie? a book?). I just extracted it from the recesses of
my brain and it was rather painful. Anyway, thank you Mark, now it all
makes (more) sense. And I am declining to respond to the OTHER definition
posted below because frankly, it appears to be kind of, well, trollish...

>
> A Troll is someone who posts with the express intent of stirring up
discord
> and annoyance. They often crosspost to antagonistic newsgroups with the
> intention of creating a row. In the case of Vincent, he's made a lot of
> contentious posts,
> thrown around accusations of a variety of failings,

No matter that we can not specifically point out these failings.


> and talked a great deal of nonsense to boot.

Nor can we explain where he doesnt make sense

> I'd not define him as a classic
> Troll, but he's

has certainly said some things that do not want to hear because if they were
true, we would be wrong,, and you know that we are never wrong.

> Trolls were
> mischievous spirits in Norse mythology iirc and of course there's the
> fishing term of "trolling" where you trail a lure through the water and
the
> hopes of getting a "bite". I think this is probably the right explanation
of
> the use of the term on the Usenet.
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

That is because the topic is interesting and contains some different
perspectives. Unfortunatly,, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to discuss
wine with me anymore, causing me to get bored and leave this group for good,
in its bliss of likemindedness.

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> Have never seen a thread go this long. ;-)
>
> Larry
> Southern Ontario
>
>

That is ridiculous. No one here is asking you to leave. I think your
introduction to the group was a bit inflammatory but it has been a good
thread. No a GREAT thread. One of the longest in alt.food.wine history.

Hang around and I am sure that over time you will learn that there are
good/great contributors here.

Example:

-M. Pronay is a Sommelier in Vienna, Austria.
-Ian Hoare a Chef from Europe that not owns a small B & B in his semi
retirement
-Mark Lipton is a professor of chemistry at Purdue
-M. Tommassi from France, involved in the Slowfoods movement
-Bill Spoon in Canada always tempting us with great tasting notes.
-I am simply a wine lover and no winemaking or chemistry background.

and on and on....they have a great knowledge base and I am sure they would
appreciate your comments and your continued postings. They are not going to
roll over either. If you seek an intellectual and non political wine group
discussion this is a great group.

Even though you are "troll like" if you hang in here and contribute to the
group your posts will be accepted in the manner you likely intended.
Inflamatory or not inflammatory--depending upon how you write and want to be
understood

Regards.

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
...
> That is because the topic is interesting and contains some different
> perspectives. Unfortunatly,, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to
discuss
> wine with me anymore, causing me to get bored and leave this group for
good,
> in its bliss of likemindedness.
>
> "Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Have never seen a thread go this long. ;-)
> >
> > Larry
> > Southern Ontario
> >
> >
>
>

dick wrote:
>
> -M. Pronay is a Sommelier in Vienna, Austria.
Correction: He is the foremost wine critic of Austria (and a *former*
sommelier) and an authority par excellence on wine from many regions.


> -Bill Spoon in Canada always tempting us with great tasting notes.
err.. Spohn

> If you seek an intellectual and non political wine group
> discussion this is a great group.

Amen, Dick! ;-)

Mark lipton

Salut/Hi Mike Tommasi,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:50:52 +0200, tu disais/you said:-

>Yes you were, and you did not stray from that absurd french nicety
>that makes one continue using the polite "vous" even when insulting
>people... LOL

Well, I could hardly use the intimate "tu" form, could I?

>>agitated. But I have to say that it was good for him to be told to his face
>>that he had been caught with his pants firmly round his knees.
>
>And in public! What colour underwear was he wearing again?

Red, of course. To match his face.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:08:13 -0500, tu disais/you said:-


>*cough* I don't recall uttering more than two sentences, as I was too
>busy stuffing food and wine into my face the entire time we were with
>you. Jean still comments in pleased amazement at going to a *tomato*
>tasting after a day spent touring Bandol's best wineries. And then
>there's that bouillabaise... ;-)

I've just had a long thread elsewhere about Bouillabaisse and what
differentiates it from other fish soup/stews from the region, and why a dish
served in NY made from nothing but shellfish (except for Tilapia fillets!!)
and served without broth was only named bouillabaisse because the chef
concerned wanted to be able to charge more than he would have had he simply
called it - more correctly "My New England shellfish stew".

>> french, that basically what Monsieur world-authority-on-wine had just
>> said about tokaji was a big load of parrot droppings. Unforgettable,
>> wish I had it on film.

>I do, too. It sounds priceless.

In a sense, yes, though there's a very serious side to this. It's hard
enough to persuade the French that anyone outside "the hexagon" makes wines
worth treating seriously. So when THE leading wine taster of the country
starts denigrating an entire foreign wine type, it's bad enough, but when
it's on a false premise it's unforgiveable.

> I can readily imagine the state of apoplexy that Mr. B's pronouncement must have induced in Ian. It's a
>miracle that he didn't suffer an aneurism on the spot! ;-)

My aorta was saved by the 5 glasses of excellent sweet wines we had in front
of us at the time! It was a fascinating workshop, and although I've held
forth about my little contretemps with our friend, it didn't diminish either
my pleasure in judging the matches, not at discovering some gorgeous wines.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

In article >, Mark Lipton >
writes:

>
>> -Bill Spoon in Canada always tempting us with great tasting notes.
> err.. Spohn

Can't even say that was a spoonerism.


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

> Did you know that Slow Food America is running a Pinot Noir & Pork
>pairing with the importer Kobrand? They've got quite a lineup of
>chefs, but the wines (IMO) are not nearly as impressive.
>
>
I saw the ad in Times. Chefs sounded good, Niman Ranch pork sounded good. But I
have to say if I was going to buy tickets to a Pinot event Benziger and Jadot
wouldn't be first names I'd hope for (there were 3-4 others, but those stuck in
my brain). But hope someone does go and post notes, I'm interested in the food
at least!

Best,

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Salut/Hi Vincent Vega,

le/on Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:10:34 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>
>"Xyzsch" > wrote in message
...

You generalised

>> >The trend today is to overwrippen grapes inorder to get big complex high alcohol
>> >wines.

Where? Not in France, certainly. That's the sort of wild, unfounded
generalisation that is getting you a trollish reputation.

>> >was harvested at about 24-26 brix. A grape at this high of a sugar
>> >content would taste flat from lack of acidity and PH would make the wine
>> > unstable.

This sentence starts with factual inaccuracy and ends by not making sense.
Not all grapes harvested at this sugar content taste flat, as Xysch pointed
out. Then you say that something would make the wine unstable? The flat
taste? The low acidity? Furthermore, what exactly do you mean by "lack of
acidity and pH?" A low pH is a sign of high acidity and vice versa.

>> Got to love those 13% alcohol German Rieslings.. especially those fermented
>> off-dry. Be sure to add lots of acid to balance the sweetness.

>> You may detect a bit of sarcasm in this statement.

>Why the sarcasim?

Because you're generalising wildly. And because in your generalising, you're
actually talking nonsense.

They don't add acidity to sweet wines from the Loire, they don't do it in
Alsace, they don't do it in Germany, I don't believe for a moment that they
do it in Austria, though Michael P can confirm this, and they _certainly_
don't need to do it in Tokaj. So kindly tell me what part of the world do
your examples come from?

>Sarcasm doesn't help to inform or win a debate. It is simply a sign of
>frustration and incompetence.

No. It shows that the person using it has lost patience with the way you
skip from one subject to another, you refuse to justify ANYthing you've
said, you ignore points made to refute you and you generally behave like a
spoilt lout.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

My apologies on the spelling of Bill Spohn. I figured most here were to
intoxicated to notice that. I was wrong.


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Mark Lipton
>
> writes:
>
> >
> >> -Bill Spoon in Canada always tempting us with great tasting notes.
> > err.. Spohn
>
> Can't even say that was a spoonerism.
>
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

>My apologies on the spelling of Bill Spohn. I figured most here were to
>intoxicated to notice that. I was wrong.

Family motto - vigilant even when piddled.....

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
...
> I hear alot of
> winemakers who dont like to admit (for unknown reasons) that they add SO2
> directly to their wine so they claim that residual SO2 gets into their
wine
> by using it as a sterilizer.

The French call this "mechage", I believe. A sulfur wick is burned in a
barrel. When the barrel is then filled with wine it absorbs the sulfur
dioxide. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the practice, except that
it is inherently inaccurate. Adding a measured amount of K2S2O5 is much
more accurate and accomplishes the same thing.

Tom S

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
...
> Unfortunatly,, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to discuss
> wine with me anymore, causing me to get bored and leave this group for
good,
> in its bliss of likemindedness.

The problem is, you are both abrasive and condescending - not to mention
somewhat inaccurate. I don't know where you got the idea that you are the
Burning Bush of oenology, but we'd all like to disabuse you of that notion.

You'd be welcome here if you were simply _nicer_. You might even have
something worth listening to; but if you step in with guns blazing you're
going to get it back - in spades!

Tom S

"Bill Spohn" > wrote in message
...
> I too have enjoyed the company of Dr. Lipton. It would seem that we have
> discovered his secret - he has no home! He simply travels the globe
visiting
> one wine fanatic after another! Better living through chemistry I think he
> said. No wait a minute, that might have been Timothy Leary.....

ROFL! The Canuck lawyer has a sense of humor! :^D

Tom S

Tom S wrote:

>"Bill Spohn" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>I too have enjoyed the company of Dr. Lipton. It would seem that we have
>>discovered his secret - he has no home! He simply travels the globe
>>
>>
>visiting
>
>
>>one wine fanatic after another! Better living through chemistry I think he
>>said. No wait a minute, that might have been Timothy Leary....
>>

The old game "Where in the world in Carmen Santiago" is going to
redesigned with stops at wine
venues around the world and it will be titled "Where in the world is
Mark Lipton this week"

>>
>>

Will accomplish preserving the wine or cleaning the barrel?

"Tom S" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I hear alot of
> > winemakers who dont like to admit (for unknown reasons) that they add
SO2
> > directly to their wine so they claim that residual SO2 gets into their
> wine
> > by using it as a sterilizer.
>
> The French call this "mechage", I believe. A sulfur wick is burned in a
> barrel. When the barrel is then filled with wine it absorbs the sulfur
> dioxide. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the practice, except
that
> it is inherently inaccurate. Adding a measured amount of K2S2O5 is much
> more accurate and accomplishes the same thing.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Nicer? About a dozen people insulted me and claimed I was an idiot without
even thinking about what I said. If someone thinks I'm not nice they should
tell me why they think that,, dont just insult me. Im sorry you are so
offended by my point-of-view,, but I cant help it.

As far as replying to me,, I am not easily offended. If you have something
thoughtful to say in response to my posts please say them clearly and
directly,, No sugar-coating necessary,, no matter how controversial your
response may be





"Tom S" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Unfortunatly,, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to discuss
> > wine with me anymore, causing me to get bored and leave this group for
> good,
> > in its bliss of likemindedness.
>
> The problem is, you are both abrasive and condescending - not to mention
> somewhat inaccurate. I don't know where you got the idea that you are the
> Burning Bush of oenology, but we'd all like to disabuse you of that
notion.
>
> You'd be welcome here if you were simply _nicer_. You might even have
> something worth listening to; but if you step in with guns blazing you're
> going to get it back - in spades!
>
> Tom S
>
>

"Bill Spohn" in ...
> >My apologies on the spelling of Bill Spohn. I figured most here were to
> >intoxicated to notice that. I was wrong.
>
> Family motto - vigilant even when piddled.....


--
"Enough," he said, "the cough is a mere nothing; it will not kill me. I
shall not die of a cough."

"True -- true," I replied; "and, indeed, I had no intention of alarming you
unnecessarily -- but you should use all proper caution. A draught of this
Medoc will defend us from the damps."

Here I knocked off the neck of a bottle which I drew from a long row of its
fellows that lay upon the mould.

"Drink," I said, presenting him the wine.

He raised it to his lips with a leer. He paused and nodded to me
familiarly, while his bells jingled.

"I drink," he said, "to the buried that repose around us."

"And I to your long life."

He again took my arm, and we proceeded.

"These vaults," he said, "are extensive."

"The Montresors," I replied, "were a great and numerous family."

"I forget your arms."

"A huge human foot d'or, in a field azure; the foot crushes a serpent
rampant whose fangs are embedded in the heel."

"And the motto?"

" _Nemo me impune lacessit._"

"Good!" he said.

The wine sparkled in his eyes and the bells jingled.



[The selection is in the public domain.]

>" _Nemo me impune lacessit._"

Fumus, draco magus
Incoluit mare

(Puff the magic dragon, lived by the sea....)

"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:26:24 GMT, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >Question: How on Earth can you be both a liberal and a socialist? That is
> >truly the work of a deranged mind (and I am speaking as a professional,
mind
> >you).
>
> Ah, but my dear nordic friend, the word liberal has different meanings
> depending on whether you are in North America or Europe.
.... <regretfully snips loving description of US, Canuck, and European
liberals>

In Sweden there´s a saying: noone is as sad as a sad liberal ... for a given
value of liberal, of course.

> Nils, aren't you supposed to be on the way to southern France by now?
> We have a Slow Food event every weekend in may-june-july.


We´re off Saturday 17th, earl-ie in the morning, before the break of day ...
arrive in Nice 10:45. You have my cell phone number right? I feel certain I
have yours (it´s in the .SIG of your private mails). (In case you didn´t
know). (I mean, you might forget your cell phone number right? and somebody
comes and asks you for it, and you can´t remember, and then it might be good
to know that it´s in the .SIG of your private mails). (Hey, just trying to
be helpful!)

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

Bill Spohn wrote.....

>> I too have enjoyed the company of Dr. Lipton.
>> It would seem that we have discovered his secret
>> he has no home! He simply travels the globe


Whereas Bill Loftin added....

> "Where in the world is Mark Lipton this week"


I don't know of Mark's whereabouts, but his mum is currently visiting us
here in New Zealand.

So, perhaps his wanderlust is genetic!

--

st.helier

"Tom S" in om...
>
> ROFL! The Canuck lawyer has a sense of humor! :^D
>

Wouldn't it be a solicitor, or barrister, or Writer to the Signet, with a
sense of humor, in that sovereign land, rather than mere "lawyer"? ;-)

"Vincent Vega" wrote in message..

> Agreed, Anyone who supports a large "Nanny Government"
> and is anti-free markets is considered in the USA to be
> leftest/democrats/liberals/socialist.

And this from the country who is the most anti towards free trade **when it
suits it to be so.**

The US has one of the most protectionist trade environments on earth; huge
subsidies paid to agriculture, and crippling tariffs placed on imports, when
the lobby in Washington is strong enough to influence the decisions makers.

So, by your own admission, Washington is nothing more than a bunch of
"leftest/democrat/liberal/socialists"

A very interesting position, Shirley.

I am starting to like you!!!

--

st.helier

"Vincent Vega" (I choose to call you Shirley - now there was a *real*
troll!)

In a pitiful attempt at playing "Tommy" whined.....

> No matter that we can not specifically point out these failings.

What is the use of pointing out anything to you - you are simply deaf,
dumb and blind - you refuse to recognise your own moronic statements,
despite them being pointed out to you on many occasions by many
contributors.

> Nor can we explain where he doesn't make sense

OK - address this non-sensical statement (yours - in your very first post)

"anyone who has a beginners knowledge of winemaking
knows that acid additions are currently practiced by just
about (every) wine producing nation in the world"

This is patently, a crock of crap - but, true to trollish form, do you
retract or recant - nope - you rave - then resort to "poor misunderstood
me!"

What you do fully comprehend, Shirley, is that there are regulars here from
Mbabane, Swaziland; Murmansk, Russia and Woolloomooloo, Australia who know
that you are nothing more than an arrogant troll.

The shame is, that you do seem to have more than a modicum of knowledge
about wine(making) {or course, you have contributed little in the way of
wine knowledge} - you just have a problem getting your brain out of
aggressive reverse!

Perhaps, you may make some sort of amends by starting your next post with "I
goofed!"

But then again, pigs might fly!!!

--

st.helier

Oh God, it's you bleating again is it Jeremy (or Sheila or whatever your
handle may be!)

Please don't tell me that you honestly think that you have actually provided
anything by way of * thought provoking discussion.*

> When we do not want to hear what a person has to say and when a
> person says something that contradicts what we believe it is
> necessary to discredit that person by claiming he is a "troll".

This is one the finest newsgroups on the net - and has a history of
intelligent discussion - often punctuated with vehement disagreement -
however, this has *always* been tempered by the element of *respect* - a
word which seems to beyond your comprehension.

This group is truly one of the most international in Usenet - one could
hardly ask for a finer resource - if one truly wanted to be part of
something very special.

You, Sir (and I use the word in its most liberal form) are a disrespectful,
arrogant SOB who has contributed little by way of intelligent discussion.

You generalise; you make patently wrong statements; you never address direct
questions; you denigrate a whole industry with innuendo of "dishonest
malpractice" based on a very narrow viewpoint - stated as fact.

Nope - none of us believe we are "all knowledgeable" - not one of us, even
though we might have traveled to every continent on earth (and some of use
have!) - and tried thousands of wine in hundreds of styles from dozens of
countries - believes that we know it all.

Every one of us is still learning, and sharing.

I encourage you to start learning - firstly with a few manners.

Stick around Shirley - and stick you typing fingers up your ass - you may
well learn something about wine, and people - and, perhaps about yourself.

Tis late - the Gewurz has gone - and so have I.

--

st.helier

Vincent, Vincent, Vincent - you haven't got it yet, have you?

> Unfortunatly, I am a troll, so no one is allowed to discuss
> wine with me anymore,

The one thing that you have *never* actually discussed is wine!

There are dozens of people here just waiting to read what you drank tonight,
the good points and bad.

I personally don't give a diddly squat that you think that you are the only
person who has ever had a *honest* conversation with a winemaker - whatever
their nationality.

You haven't got it through that 1/2 inch of bone surrounding your brain that
there are people here who are vastly more educated than you; are vastly more
experienced winemakers than you; have traveled through virtually every
winemaking region in the world (and spoken to *honest winemakers* along the
way); that there are people here who have tasted and wondered at a 1947
Cheval Blanc - and mistaken a premium vintage Champagne as fish-oil!!!

From you utterings, you do possess an element of knowledge - you may well
have something to offer.

Just throw away the "holier than thou - I know everything and you know
nothing" stance; and get of your high horse.

You are just a little fish in a very pig pond.

From this point, you make the choice?

Turkey or Eagle?

--

st.helier

>
> And this from the country who is the most anti towards free trade **when
it
> suits it to be so.**
>
> The US has one of the most protectionist trade environments on earth;
>huge
> subsidies paid to agriculture, and crippling tariffs placed on imports,

LOL,, where did you get your education on US trade law? Stick to wine,,
you clearly have no clue what you are talking about regarding US policy.

>when
> the lobby in Washington is strong enough to influence the decisions
makers.
>
> So, by your own admission, Washington is nothing more than a bunch of
> "leftest/democrat/liberal/socialists"

Yes,, most are. The Democrats are the ones who support tariffs and are
against free-trade. What is your point?

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Vincent Vega" (I choose to call you Shirley - now there was a *real*
> troll!)
>
> In a pitiful attempt at playing "Tommy" whined.....
>
> > No matter that we can not specifically point out these failings.
>
> What is the use of pointing out anything to you - you are simply deaf,
> dumb and blind - you refuse to recognise your own moronic statements,
> despite them being pointed out to you on many occasions by many
> contributors.

Nice, you troll,, Didnt your mama teach you any manners.

>
> > Nor can we explain where he doesn't make sense
>
> OK - address this non-sensical statement (yours - in your very first post)
>
> "anyone who has a beginners knowledge of winemaking
> knows that acid additions are currently practiced by just
> about (every) wine producing nation in the world"
>
> This is patently, a crock of crap - but, true to trollish form, do you
> retract or recant - nope - you rave - then resort to "poor misunderstood
> me!"

You are so clueless.

>
> What you do fully comprehend, Shirley, is that there are regulars here
from
> Mbabane, Swaziland; Murmansk, Russia and Woolloomooloo, Australia who know
> that you are nothing more than an arrogant troll.
>
> The shame is, that you do seem to have more than a modicum of knowledge
> about wine(making) {or course, you have contributed little in the way of
> wine knowledge} - you just have a problem getting your brain out of
> aggressive reverse!

You know so little about winemaking you cant even distinguish the difference
between a "troll" and someone who has fermented over a million gallons of
wine.
You are truely a pathetic poser in the wine industry.


>
>

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
...
> Will accomplish preserving the wine or cleaning the barrel?

Sulfite addition isn't used for cleaning barrels. These days we use hot
water to knock out the tartrates, followed by a rinse with ozonated water to
sterilize. The barrel is then drained, gassed with SO2 and bunged tight to
prevent anything the ozone missed from growing in it. Before reuse, it is
rinsed with cold water to wash out the excess SO2.

Tom S

Vincent, that is only when Republicans are for Free Trade and against
tarriffs.

Remember today both parties are simply oposition parties. What ever one
party is for the other opposes.


"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
news
>
> >
> > And this from the country who is the most anti towards free trade
**when
> it
> > suits it to be so.**
> >
> > The US has one of the most protectionist trade environments on earth;
> >huge
> > subsidies paid to agriculture, and crippling tariffs placed on imports,
>
> LOL,, where did you get your education on US trade law? Stick to wine,,
> you clearly have no clue what you are talking about regarding US policy.
>
> >when
> > the lobby in Washington is strong enough to influence the decisions
> makers.
> >
> > So, by your own admission, Washington is nothing more than a bunch of
> > "leftest/democrat/liberal/socialists"
>
> Yes,, most are. The Democrats are the ones who support tariffs and are
> against free-trade. What is your point?
>
>
>
>

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in
:


>
> You know so little about winemaking you cant even distinguish the
> difference between a "troll" and someone who has fermented over a
> million gallons of wine.
> You are truely a pathetic poser in the wine industry.
There is no reason why one can't be a troll and have a million or so
gallons of wine in their past. Indeed there is some evidence recently on
this group that tends to prove the point!

So with your experience what are your opinions on say the cork vs stelvin
arguments. Do you favor one or the other? Can wines in Stelvin closures age
gracefully? or is the whole cork thing more a case of poor winemaking?

"Vincent Vega" > wrote in message
...
> Nicer? About a dozen people insulted me and claimed I was an idiot
without
> even thinking about what I said. If someone thinks I'm not nice they
should
> tell me why they think that,, dont just insult me.

You only started receiving flames in return because you came from your
corner first swinging at _everyone_. Don't try to play innocent now. It's
too late for that.

Jeez, where's that nice Mr. Stonefeel been lately? ;^)

Tom S