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Old 10-03-2004, 04:41 PM
Michael Bartlett
 
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Default Futures and Bond

Folks,

I have finally exceeded the (limited) space I have in my racks. I've got
about 100 bottles on rack in the dining room, I keep the central heating off
unless we have a dinner party and the few 100ish wines (Grange, Silver
Oak). I'm wanting to achieve two things, firstly temperature controlled
storage.

So I'm looking at doing two things I wouldn't mind some advice on...

1) Futures
I'm wanting to buy some futures, I'm based in London - what's the best way
to go about this? Very nebulous, I know!

2) Bond
There was a question about wine under bond a few weeks ago, but I can't seem
to find it on google. My understanding of this is, say I buy a case of GAM
under bond. I don't pay any duty tax on the wine and it is kept in some
cellar somewhere. The question I have is, when I want to get the wine, how
does the tax work? Do I pay the duty based on the original price of the wine
or will the new value of the wine be estimated for taxation? Is bond
worthwhile or would I be better off buying it now and sending it off to
profressional cellaring services?

Cheers
MB




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Old 10-03-2004, 07:38 PM
Johnners
 
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Default Futures and Bond

Hi Mike,

In answer to your question:

cellar somewhere. The question I have is, when I want to get the wine, how
does the tax work? Do I pay the duty based on the original price of the

wine
or will the new value of the wine be estimated for taxation?


then you pay the duty and VAT applicable at the time that you remove the
wine, but based on the original purchase price. So as an example I withdrew
a case of CDP that cost me 120 about 2 years ago from storage with Lay and
Wheeler (who I think are very reasonably priced for this service and very
nice to deal with) and had to pay the 14.29 per dozen duty and then VAT on
the total amount. If VAT or duty go up dramatically then I lose out from
having not paid duty at the time of purchase - but that's a gamble I'm
willing to take!

Storing in bond is an excellent idea for the 'long stocks' provided that you
have capacity to withdraw in cases and store at home for the drinking window
of the case - which maybe you haven't. You can pay extra for partial
withrawal I think but that does somewhat undermine the economics of the
situation.

As you are in London I believe that there are companies that allow you to
rent a 'space' and this is like an extension of your cellar, but I guess
that you'd need to keep the wine duty paid in that case - but if you do that
then at least you don't have any further costs to worry about other than
cellarage.

And is it worthwhile..well, ultimately that can only be up to you! To have
good wine for the future is it worth 8 per case per year? I think so!

Johnners.


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Old 11-03-2004, 12:09 AM
John Taverner
 
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Default Futures and Bond

Storing in bond is an excellent idea for the 'long stocks' provided that
you
have capacity to withdraw in cases and store at home for the drinking

window
of the case - which maybe you haven't.


Always try to store yourself, you have the wine in your hands.
If storage is a problem, then cellar with a reputable company, and get an
invoice of *ownership*.

I have just lost my cellar ( house move), so I have your problem, have
bought 2002 Burgundies thro, Wine Society and Tanners and will pay
cellarage.
Be very careful about fly by night companies, H*******d, springs to mind.
JT


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Old 11-03-2004, 07:37 PM
Johnners
 
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Default Futures and Bond

I would agree that if you can store it yourself that is better. I have
bought a wine cabinet at home which is great but..guess what! it is nearly
full already! I was considering one of the fully costructed cellars from
l'Amour du Vin and to some extent it might have been a better value bet in
the long run. Hey ho!

There are no guarantees in bought storage but I am comforted by L&W being a
member of the Bunch, which has a good code of practice.

I am also glad to hear that someone else has bought some Wine Society red
burgundy!

"John Taverner" wrote in message
...

Always try to store yourself, you have the wine in your hands.
If storage is a problem, then cellar with a reputable company, and get an
invoice of *ownership*.





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