On another board someone posted some partial quotes from a recent Clive Coates
article on 2000 Bdx (in The Vine, I assume). He compares the 2000 to 1961, 1982
and 1990, saying the 1961 are uniques and we won't be able to tell if the 2000s
are as good as the 1982s or the 1990s until they mature (and we still need to
wait for the 1990s to reach their peak)

He also writes:
"I am perfectly happy to agree that 2000 at its best is as good as 1982 and
1990. The trouble is that the top wines are horrendously expensive.Three years
on, it is time to put aside the millenium hype and ask ourselves the question:
how good are the 2000s reds? Is it, as some have claimed, the best ever because
there is a larger quantity of good wines than ever before?

My feeling, having tasted the wines noted on the following pages over three
days in January 2004, was more one of frustration than satisfaction:
exasperation, that, as usual, the majority of the wines were no more than good,
rather than joy at the fact that the usual suspects all the first growths
except Mouton-Rothschild, all the super-seconds save Pichon- Longueville,
Comtesse de Lalande have produced lovely wines.

There are some splendid 2000s. What is sad is that there are so few, though in
general the wines at Bourgeois and petit chteau level are more than
satisfactory. Where the vintage disappoints is in the middle, properties with
classed growth terroir who fail, year in, year out, even given the weather
advantages of 2000, to produce classed growth wine.

A summary of the best wines

Wines of the vintage: Lafite & Latour.

Very fine indeed - Mdoc/Graves: Ducru-Beaucaillou; Haut-Brion; Leoville-Barton;
Leoville-Las-Cases; Margaux; Palmer.
St Emilion/Pomerol: Ausone; Cheval-Blanc; LEvangile; Petrus.

Very fine - Mdoc/Graves: Grand-Puy-Lacoste; La Mission Haut-Brion.
St Emilion/Pomerol: Angelus; LEglise-Clinet; Trotanoy; Vieux-Chteau-Certan.
Good value - Mdoc/Graves: DAurilhac; Bouscaut (Graves); Les Carmes Haut-Brion
(Graves) Caronne Sainte-Gemme (Haut-Mdoc); Coufran (Haut-Mdoc); Chasse-Spleen
(Moulis); Domaine de Chevalier (Graves); DEscurac; Ferrire (Margaux);
Labgorce-Zd (Margaux); Latour-Martillac (Graves); Talbot (Saint-Julien);
Pontet-Canet (Saint-Julien); De Pez (Saint-Estphe)
St Emilion/Pomerol: Berliquet (Saint-milion); Bertineau St. Vincent (Lalande de
Pomerol); Canon de Brem (Fronsac); La Croix Canon (Fronsac); Les Cruzelles
(Lalande de Pomerol); Dalem (Fronsac); La Fleur de Bouard (Lalande de Pomerol);
La Grave--Pomerol (Pomerol); Fontenil (Fronsac); La Sergue (Lalande de
Pomerol); La Serre (Saint-Emilion).

Disappointments: Mouton-Rothschild; Pavie, Pichon-Longueville-Lalande."


He's catching some grief over this on other boards, for not being as
enthusiastic as Parker, Broadbent, Spurrier, Tanzer, and Suckling. But I
didn't find it that controversial. Is anyone arguing that there aren't
underperformers?And based on Triomphe tasting I wouldn't argue with idea that
Pichon-Lalande was a disappointment (Pavie wasn't my style, but don't think it
would disappoint its fans).

In any case, most interesting part to me was the good value section. I agree on
a lot of those- Talbot, Canon de Brem, Coufran, de Pez, La Fleur du Bouard,
Ferriere. Has anyone tried the 2000 Dalem? I never even saw it offered (and
winesearcher shows nothing). It was a wine I thought was a fine value in 1998
(though I remember others disagreeing).


Dale

Dale Williams
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Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

le/on 09 Mar 2004 13:29:02 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>On another board someone posted some partial quotes from a recent Clive Coates
>article on 2000 Bdx (in The Vine, I assume).
>
>My feeling, having tasted the wines noted on the following pages over three
>days in January 2004, was more one of frustration than satisfaction:
>exasperation, that, as usual, the majority of the wines were no more than good,

Which is exactly what I've been saying since I tasted them in 2001.

>There are some splendid 2000s. What is sad is that there are so few, though in
>general the wines at Bourgeois and petit chteau level are more than
>satisfactory. Where the vintage disappoints is in the middle, properties with
>classed growth terroir who fail, year in, year out, even given the weather
>advantages of 2000, to produce classed growth wine.

Yup.

>A summary of the best wines

>Wines of the vintage: Lafite & Latour.

Interesting, I'd heard (didn't get to taste it) that this honour went to Ch
Margaux.

>He's catching some grief over this on other boards, for not being as
>enthusiastic as Parker, Broadbent, Spurrier, Tanzer, and Suckling.

Can you give me some urls, I'd like to go and support him.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

In article >, Ian Hoare
> writes:

>He's catching some grief over this on other boards, for not being as
>>enthusiastic as Parker, Broadbent, Spurrier, Tanzer, and Suckling.
>
>Can you give me some urls, I'd like to go and support him.

I think the grief was mostly on the Squires board (www.erobertparker.com) ,
which one might suspect. Though certainly there were those defending him there.
Though part of the animosity comes from Coates' comments referring to Americans
as rednecks in a previous issue (didn't read it myself).

Ian, I have read many times your comments about 2000. A googlegroups search did
find a post where you listed the ones you did like from the barrel samples (of
which I've tasted more than half, liking almost all except Smith Haut Laffite
& Figeac, which I thought were disappointments, though not bad wines). But
could you list some of the ones you didn't like? Just curious to try to
"calibrate" (to use an overused term).

From a sheer financial standpoint I am glad that I bought some of my perennial
favorites (Talbot, du Tertre,Grand Corbin Despagne, Fleur du Bouard, La
Louviere) on futures, prices were high on release and have only gotten higher.
Just wish that I had not flinched at the prices for L-Poyferre and L-Barton, as
the wines are outstanding and prices twice what I could have gotten them for
early. Sigh.


Dale

Dale Williams
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Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

le/on 09 Mar 2004 18:07:19 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>In article >, Ian Hoare
> writes:
>
>>He's catching some grief over this on other boards, for not being as
>>>enthusiastic as Parker, Broadbent, Spurrier, Tanzer, and Suckling.
>>
>>Can you give me some urls, I'd like to go and support him.
>
>I think the grief was mostly on the Squires board (www.erobertparker.com) ,
>which one might suspect.

Indeed.

> Though certainly there were those defending him there. Though part of the animosity
> comes from Coates' comments referring to Americans as rednecks in a previous issue (didn't read it myself).

Oh dear... This war has set everyone's nerves on edge.

>Ian, I have read many times your comments about 2000.

Chuckle... I've not been shy about making my opinion known. Actually I've
found it necessary mainly to try to counter the near hysterical rush to
overspend on the wine.

A googlegroups search did
>find a post where you listed the ones you did like from the barrel samples (of
>which I've tasted more than half, liking almost all except Smith Haut Laffite
>& Figeac, which I thought were disappointments, though not bad wines).

Interesting. Glad we weren't in vehement disagreement.

> But could you list some of the ones you didn't like? Just curious to try to
>"calibrate" (to use an overused term).

Okay, though I'm cautious about doing such a thing. To explain what I didn't
like I must describe the year. Very briefly, 2000 was a very difficult year,
with cool, wet early summer, leading to overproduction of grapes. Some
chateaux, hypnotised by the possibility of a large crop in a year almost
CERTAIN to fetch high prices, left too many bunches on the vines to be
ripened. (They fell at the first hurdle).

Late August and early Sept were so hot that those that HAD thinned the
bunches found that their crop had caught up in maturity. However, not only
weas it hot but it was dry. So dry that the vines had to shut down to
prevent loss of essential water by transpiration. The grapes had enough
sugar, but were lacking ripeness. Some chateaux, desperate to get a decent
wine in a year that had looked as if it was going to be disastrous, picked
too early, giving wines with a pronounced "green (bell) pepper taste. (They
fell at the second hurdle). This was a much commoner error.

Then in mid/late September, the rain came, and the vines were able to fully
ripen thair grapes. (A very few Chx picked as soon as that happened, picking
wet grapes, in case rot came later and spoiled the vintage. They got wines
lacking in concentration.) Then came some dry weather, and those that had
waited, were able - if they really hurried - to pick a crop in perfect
condition. They made super wines. Then came the rains, which lasted
throughout October. Any that HADN'T picked in time either found their crops
dilute, or rotted, or both (that's the fourth hurdle). The poor producers of
Sauternes and other Botrytised wines in the area were royally screwed. Their
grapes rotted. A couple DID manage to make wine from a first (late Sept)
picking, and it's OK.

So the overall picture is of a heterogeneous vintage, with magnificent wines
from those who tiptoed past the hurdles, and didn't make any other mistakes
in vinification, and examples of various faults from those who fell at the
various hurdles. The commonest fault (IMO) in tasting, was a green pepper
flavour, showing wines made from grapes lacking full maturity. I'm NOT
claiming that a majority of chx made this mistake, most got it right.
However, as you say, too _many_ got it wrong for someone to be able to go
out and buy ANY 2000 with their eyes closed, knowing it was going to be a
triumphal wine.

Enough lessons. These are the wines which disappointed me most.

Chx
De France
Rahoul
Cap de Mourlin (whose first wine I liked a lot)
Fonplegade
La Dominique
Larcis Ducasse
Poujeaux

Here are a few of those which failed to impress, without disappointing.

Chx
Bouscaut
Carbonnieux
Haut-Bailly
Haut-Bergey
Latour Martillac
Dassault
Clos Fourtet
Grand Mayne
Cantemerle
Sociando Mallet

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

>Enough lessons. These are the wines which disappointed me most.
>
>Chx
>De France
>Rahoul
>Cap de Mourlin (whose first wine I liked a lot)
>Fonplegade
>La Dominique
>Larcis Ducasse
>Poujeaux
>
>Here are a few of those which failed to impress, without disappointing.
>
>Chx
>Bouscaut
>Carbonnieux
>Haut-Bailly
>Haut-Bergey
>Latour Martillac
>Dassault
>Clos Fourtet
>Grand Mayne
>Cantemerle
>Sociando Mallet


I can't believe you came up with so many 2000s I haven't tasted (De France,
Rahoul, Cap de Mourlin, and Fonplegade are totally unknown to me)!

I have one bottle each of the Carbonnieux & Dassault, but haven't tried yet.
Cantemerle is usually a fave, but was just too pricey in 2000.

But indeed (as with the Pichon Lalande I posted notes), I've heard myriad
reports of a greenness to the Sociando. But not from all- it's almost as if
there's something there that strikes some tasters and not others (kind of
similar to how TCA sensitivity varies, though I'm not suggesting a taint).

thanks for the notes. And as I said, not everyone agrees re the Pichon Lalande
(not just Parker). Michael Broadbent states that "unquestionably a very good
year, uniform in quality. All the first growths are excellent with classed
growths(Gruaud-Larose, Grand Puy Lacoste, the Leovilles, Palmer,
Pichon-Lalande, Rauzan-Segla) also first rate." So he's specifically including
P-Lalande in the top tiers. Not the one I tasted
Dale

Dale Williams
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