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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 02:13 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 day
period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.



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Old 22-02-2004, 02:37 PM
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

"dick" wrote in
link.net:

When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit
wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a
12 day period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.




At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just
north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation,
that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck
can throw up some nice surprises.
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 04:15 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

Serious question...I know my Burgs and Bordeaux but not much on Rhone.


"jcoulter" wrote in message
. 227.77...
"dick" wrote in
link.net:

When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit
wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a
12 day period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.




At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just
north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation,
that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck
can throw up some nice surprises.



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 06:27 PM
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas



dick wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


Dick,
Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit
there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 07:37 PM
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

"dick" wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah
(IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as
indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache.

Mark posted the following on 1-29:

Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R
Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who
specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few
domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different
domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last
night's wines:
,other material snipped

1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey , cherries, smoke
palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body,
giving way to gaminess in the finish.
Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10
Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that
funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off
in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value.

2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey, cherries
palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before
an acidic finish.
Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the
two, however, I preferred the '99.

1999 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke
palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in
the finish
This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and
character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: cherry and minerals
palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but
similar in character

1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: deep cherry fruit
palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity
Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough
fruit to go with the still substantial tannins.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit
palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish
This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive
(~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few
years, though.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan
nose: licorice and volatile esters
palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish
This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas
aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it
(he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than
Gigondas.

Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and
the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the
'99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year,
but it wasn't available.

1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath
palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish
A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier
wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum!

1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: gamey, leather and seaweed
palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and
an acidic finish
Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at
the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting,
you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff,
though (~$30).

2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers
and fruit beneath
palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry
before a 60 second finish.
WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it
hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000
Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn
up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000,
but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is
probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48),
but that's the price of success...

Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were
generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very
reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen
states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth
looking for.

Mark Lipton


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 07:52 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

thanks.


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...


dick wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


Dick,
Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 07:52 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

thanks.
"jcoulter" wrote in message
. 204.17...
"dick" wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah
(IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as
indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache.

Mark posted the following on 1-29:

Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R
Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who
specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few
domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different
domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last
night's wines:
,other material snipped

1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey , cherries, smoke
palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body,
giving way to gaminess in the finish.
Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10
Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that
funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off
in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value.

2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey, cherries
palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before
an acidic finish.
Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the
two, however, I preferred the '99.

1999 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke
palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in
the finish
This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and
character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: cherry and minerals
palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but
similar in character

1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: deep cherry fruit
palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity
Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough
fruit to go with the still substantial tannins.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit
palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish
This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive
(~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few
years, though.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan
nose: licorice and volatile esters
palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish
This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas
aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it
(he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than
Gigondas.

Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and
the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the
'99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year,
but it wasn't available.

1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath
palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish
A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier
wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum!

1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: gamey, leather and seaweed
palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and
an acidic finish
Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at
the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting,
you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff,
though (~$30).

2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers
and fruit beneath
palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry
before a 60 second finish.
WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it
hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000
Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn
up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000,
but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is
probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48),
but that's the price of success...

Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were
generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very
reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen
states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth
looking for.

Mark Lipton



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 07:53 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Yeah, guess I shouldn't have ****ed Ian off months ago...he would have been
a great resource for this trip.


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...


dick wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


Dick,
Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 08:02 PM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100
Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...

I plan to take train from Barcelona to France...where in France I am not yet
positive. Most Americans I understand go to Perpignan to pick up car to
avoid huge drop charges. I was thinking go to Dijon/Beaune and drive back
to Avigon and then Nice.

I really love Burgs, have not developed much appreciation for Rhone other
than Hermitage. CDP's are OK to me. But perhaps after staying in the region
my tastes will devolop.


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...


dick wrote:

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


Dick,
Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 08:46 PM
alfaekko
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas


"dick" skrev i en meddelelse
link.net...
When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

day
period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.




In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
reasonable price (10 euro)

In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull
wines with good potential for ageing.
Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm

In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
good CdP.

Anders




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-02-2004, 11:54 PM
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas



alfaekko wrote:



In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
reasonable price (10 euro)

In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull
wines with good potential for ageing.
Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm

In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
good CdP.


Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing), Domaine
du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try to
get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days.
Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing to
a CA tasting room to be found in those parts...

Mark Lipton

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-02-2004, 01:05 AM
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html

I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht
captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for
lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want
to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.

So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4
nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights
or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and
others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to
France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.

I am quite a planner and this will be stressful. I can just imagine a big
convention in town and everything is booked for 100 miles. There I am in
France, no where to stay. That would suck. At least I will eat and drink
well.

"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
...


alfaekko wrote:



In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
reasonable price (10 euro)

In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and

powerfull
wines with good potential for ageing.
Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm

In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
good CdP.


Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing),

Domaine
du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try

to
get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days.
Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing

to
a CA tasting room to be found in those parts...

Mark Lipton



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-02-2004, 07:33 AM
Mike Tommasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:05:50 GMT, "dick" wrote:

Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html

I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht
captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for
lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want
to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.

So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4
nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights
or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and
others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to
France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.


Dick

near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I
sent you and they'll charge you double ;-)))

www.la-marteliere.com

Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse,
Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and
can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV.

Mike



Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-02-2004, 08:15 AM
Ron Lel
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas


"dick" wrote in message
link.net...
When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

day
period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.


May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at
Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you
could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.

Cheers
Ron Lel


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-02-2004, 08:19 AM
Mike Tommasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:15:51 GMT, "Ron Lel" wrote:


"dick" wrote in message
hlink.net...
When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

day
period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.


May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at
Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you
could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.


La Pyramide at Vienne is also back in fine shape.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail


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